Guest American Woman Posted May 11, 2012 Report Posted May 11, 2012 I did, second post in this thread. You are very welcome. So you managed one post about the issue. One out of three ain't too bad, considering .... Quote
Wilber Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 Leaving off the cross border slagging, while Obama is to be commended for taking an unflipflopable new direction for a President, I think many are wondering if this will be a case of all show and no go. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Moonlight Graham Posted May 12, 2012 Author Report Posted May 12, 2012 Hmmm... Like this ones mistakes. Too bad she feels the need for people to hear stupid commentary. Seriously? Like mother, like daughter. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Moonlight Graham Posted May 12, 2012 Author Report Posted May 12, 2012 Leaving off the cross border slagging, while Obama is to be commended for taking an unflipflopable new direction for a President, I think many are wondering if this will be a case of all show and no go. What`s he supposed to do though? It is largely a state issue under their jurisdiction if I'm correct. I'm not sure what he can do with gay marriage, other than give his support. Would be awesome to see him at a gay pride parade though, that would be a great photo-op! Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Guest Derek L Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 Speaking as a very liberal sort of guy (I preface this way to avoid the "your horse in the race" kind of response), I find it mildly interesting that Dick Cheney's stance on gay marriage--identical to Obama's, except that he came to it earlier--did not win him too many accolades from the liberals generally. Ah, partisan politics...... Or Barry Goldwater's position near two decades earlier? Quote
Shakeyhands Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 But not so good compared to a "backward state" with only 9.6 million people. Did I mention UNC at Chapel Hill? How can those "dumb rednecks" have two world ranked universities? I don't think the Triangle counts. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
kimmy Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 Maybe we can come to an agreement on this. I would say that youthful indiscretions don't matter, generally, prior to 18 and to a lesser degree prior to college graduation. I don't think he should be let off the hook that easy. Let's be clear on this: he was 18 when this incident happened. Our society considers an 18 year old responsible for their behaviour. When the subject of youth crime comes up, people are often in favor of people younger than 18 being held responsible for their actions. Young adults make errors in judgment, but I think that by the time you're 18 you fully understand right and wrong and your character is formed. There are two possibilities here: Romney knew what he was doing was wrong, or he didn't. Neither speaks well of him as a human being. Why would he do something like that? Think about what motivates an 18 year old-- an adult for all intents and purposes-- to round up a posse to chase down another kid, hold him down, and cut off his hair while he cries for help? Mitt and his campaign are trying to spin it as Mitt just being a jokey jokester who sometimes did some dumb things. This incident isn't a jokey jokester having too much fun. This incident is an act of malice that demonstrates cruelty and a lack of empathy. So I'm not inclined to just file this under "an indiscretion". -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Michael Hardner Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 People do stupid things when they're young. I did. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Wilber Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 What`s he supposed to do though? It is largely a state issue under their jurisdiction if I'm correct. I'm not sure what he can do with gay marriage, other than give his support. Would be awesome to see him at a gay pride parade though, that would be a great photo-op! While his powers to do something in legislation are very limited, he should go after people like Romney and make them defend their position. If he wants to show up at a pride parade then I guess that's what he should do. Personally, while I support gay couples having every right that heterosexuals enjoy including marriage, I have a problem with things like the pride parade and wonder if they haven't outlived their usefulness. If one wants to be considered included in mainstream society or "normal" (a terrible word but for want of any other), eventually they have to start acting the part and not go out of their way to accentuate their differences. Ultimately, it is up to gays to decide whether they want their sexuality to be considered just an integral part of society or a separate culture on its own. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Signals.Cpl Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 People do stupid things when they're young. I did. So you hassled gay kids when you were 18? Stupid things do not in my mind include assault harassment. It's gay bashing plain and simple, I don't care what religion you subscribe to sexual preference is a personal thing. A homosexual person deserves the same rights to happiness as the rest of us I may not agree with or like their choice and I have the right to respectfully voice those opinions but no one has the right to prevent people from being openly happy. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Moonlight Graham Posted May 12, 2012 Author Report Posted May 12, 2012 So Mitt was a jerk when he was in high school or whatever. He was young, though that doesn't excuse him, but this was over 45 years ago. 45!!! If he did this at age 30, then a bit of a different story. This situation is good to know but I think there are way bigger issues at stake in deciding who should be president than some idiotic high school/college pranks half a century ago. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Signals.Cpl Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) So Mitt was a jerk when he was in high school or whatever. He was young, though that doesn't excuse him, but this was over 45 years ago. 45!!! If he did this at age 30, then a bit of a different story. This situation is good to know but I think there are way bigger issues at stake in deciding who should be president than some idiotic high school/college pranks half a century ago. What he did at age 18 is bad enough, what he did at age 65 to turn it in to a joke is worse. When it was brought up he should have apologized and used it as an opportunity to show growth as a human being over the last 47 years. How many kids have committed suicide because of bullying? Edited May 12, 2012 by Signals.Cpl Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
wyly Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 People do stupid things when they're young. I did. the stupid thing he did would be classified as assault... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
bleeding heart Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 I have a theory that they get even more irritated with Americans when no Canadian NHL teams remain in the Stanley Cup Playoffs! Let me check...nope...Canadian teams got bounced early this year. I'm a Bruins fan, so...nope. It's all good. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
bleeding heart Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 Or Barry Goldwater's position near two decades earlier? It's true that you can sometimes count on a principled stance from a libertarian. Just as often, however, they forget, and embrace the very statism they purport to detest. (Oh...except for the Greatest Evil: taxes!) Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
bleeding heart Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 People do stupid things when they're young. I did. And if you and your mouth-breathing pals held a boy down and cut his hair while he was crying for you to stop...and then later brushed it off...your sense of empathy and compassion might rightly be called into question. (I'm not sure why I reiterate Kimmy's fine post, however, as you seem to be pretending she made no argument at all.) Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
bleeding heart Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 So you hassled gay kids when you were 18? Stupid things do not in my mind include assault harassment. It's gay bashing plain and simple, I don't care what religion you subscribe to sexual preference is a personal thing. A homosexual person deserves the same rights to happiness as the rest of us I may not agree with or like their choice and I have the right to respectfully voice those opinions but no one has the right to prevent people from being openly happy. Hear hear. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
punked Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) People do stupid things when they're young. I did. Yet he never has face repercussions for it. Well at least not until now. Isn't that the rights argument for being tough on crime? We need to show that actions have consequences? Well now is the time to show bullies that actions have consequences. I guess Republicans being hypocrites wouldn't be anything new. I will remember this day the next time you talk about crime laws though. It is all about who the person can become not a crime and punishment type of thing? Edited May 12, 2012 by punked Quote
Guest Derek L Posted May 12, 2012 Report Posted May 12, 2012 It's true that you can sometimes count on a principled stance from a libertarian. Just as often, however, they forget, and embrace the very statism they purport to detest. (Oh...except for the Greatest Evil: taxes!) I wouldn’t peg it as merely a libertarian stance, for many Conservatives don’t really care what people do in their private lives…….I think we had this discussion relating to the political compass already Quote
Guest American Woman Posted May 13, 2012 Report Posted May 13, 2012 What`s he supposed to do though? It is largely a state issue under their jurisdiction if I'm correct. I'm not sure what he can do with gay marriage, other than give his support. Would be awesome to see him at a gay pride parade though, that would be a great photo-op! Just because they believe it should be up to the states doesn't make it a state issue. As I pointed out previously, marriage involves federal benefits, paid for by the taxpayers, including those in states that decide it's not legal for gays to marry. I would like to know how that would that play into something that varies from state to state - and I can't believe no one is bringing it up. If they are/have, I've missed it. I would love to hear the response to how that would be handled. Obviously gay couples in some states can't collect, for example, social security benefits as gay couples in other states cannot. The federal government has to recognize gay marriage in order for all gay couples to enjoy the same federal benefits. It's not a state issue; it has to be a federal issue. Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted May 13, 2012 Report Posted May 13, 2012 Just because they believe it should be up to the states doesn't make it a state issue. As I pointed out previously, marriage involves federal benefits, paid for by the taxpayers, including those in states that decide it's not legal for gays to marry. I would like to know how that would that play into something that varies from state to state - and I can't believe no one is bringing it up. If they are/have, I've missed it. I would love to hear the response to how that would be handled. Obviously gay couples in some states can't collect, for example, social security benefits as gay couples in other states cannot. The federal government has to recognize gay marriage in order for all gay couples to enjoy the same federal benefits. It's not a state issue; it has to be a federal issue. Can the federal government force the decision on to the states? Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Guest American Woman Posted May 13, 2012 Report Posted May 13, 2012 Can the federal government force the decision on to the states? It's forced other decisions; 'no slavery' being one that immediately comes to mind. As I said, if it involves federal benefits for married couples, social security being the main issue that comes to my mind, I don't see how it could vary from state to state. Quote
wyly Posted May 13, 2012 Report Posted May 13, 2012 So Mitt was a jerk when he was in high school or whatever. He was young, though that doesn't excuse him, but this was over 45 years ago. 45!!! If he did this at age 30, then a bit of a different story. This situation is good to know but I think there are way bigger issues at stake in deciding who should be president than some idiotic high school/college pranks half a century ago. so it's safe to say you have no issue with Omar Kadr, he was after all only 15... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 13, 2012 Report Posted May 13, 2012 It's forced other decisions; 'no slavery' being one that immediately comes to mind.... Technically, slavery in the United States was abolished by the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution, and like any other amendment, this requires ratification by 3/4 of the states. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
dre Posted May 13, 2012 Report Posted May 13, 2012 People do stupid things when they're young. I did. Yup, and if they were EXTRA stupid and creepy like being a violent homophobic predator, and you tried to run for office... then that will be one of the things factored in. It might not be a major defining factor in the race, but some voters might consider it. And then he also lied about it. That DIDNT happen 40 years ago. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
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