Fired for free expression?

[dre]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/25/us/marine-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

This Marine was dishonorably discharged for calling Obama a liar on his facebook page, and suggesting he might not follow certain orders.

Some avenues for interest discussion are...

1. Should your employer be able to fire opinions you post as a private citizen in social media?

2. Should your employer be able to fire you for saying you might disobey an order or directive during your communications as a private citizen when youre not on shift?

3. Soldiers have a unique perspective on foreign policy and political issues, that has potential value. Should they be stifled?

Edited April 25, 2012 by dre

[GostHacked]

I was about to post this ... good call dre.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/25/marine-corps-discharges-sergeant-who-posted-facebook-posts-critical-obama/

SAN DIEGO – The Marine Corps said Wednesday it has decided to discharge a sergeant for criticizing President Barack Obama on Facebook.

The Corps said Sgt. Gary Stein will be given an other-than-honorable discharge for violating Pentagon policy limiting speech of service members.

The San Diego-area Marine has served nearly 10 years in the Marine Corps. He has said he was exercising his free-speech rights.

The discharge will mean he loses all benefits.

So I don't get it, you give up certain rights when you are in the military? This is also more proof that your facebook account WILL be used against you. Do yourself a favour, delete your facebook account.

[bush_cheney2004]

You are joking, right? US active duty and ready reserve military are still subject to the UCMJ as members of the armed forces. They can't just pop off about their commander-in-chief with total impunity. The first thing they drill out of you in boot camp is the marriage between one's individual opinion and individual big mouth.

Employers have wide legal latitude to terminate at-will employees for any number of actions.

[cybercoma]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/25/us/marine-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

This Marine was dishonorably discharged for calling Obama a liar on his facebook page, and suggesting he might not follow certain orders.

Some avenues for interest discussion are...

1. Should your employer be able to fire opinions you post as a private citizen in social media?

2. Should your employer be able to fire you for saying you might disobey an order or directive during your communications as a private citizen when youre not on shift?

3. Soldiers have a unique perspective on foreign policy and political issues, that has potential value. Should they be stifled?

I wouldn't compare the military to a standard employment contract. Obama is the Commander-in-Chief of the military, so it's not just a boss that's being slagged.

[punked]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/25/us/marine-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

This Marine was dishonorably discharged for calling Obama a liar on his facebook page, and suggesting he might not follow certain orders.

Some avenues for interest discussion are...

1. Should your employer be able to fire opinions you post as a private citizen in social media?

2. Should your employer be able to fire you for saying you might disobey an order or directive during your communications as a private citizen when youre not on shift?

3. Soldiers have a unique perspective on foreign policy and political issues, that has potential value. Should they be stifled?

He was fired for creating a facebook page where he acted as if he was representing the Armed forces then went on to criticize the commander and chief. If he hadn't pretended he was acting in his role in the armed forced and instead posted that on his facebook as a private citizen no one would have said boo. The same thing happened earlier this year when a member of the military appeared at Ron Paul rally in his uniform. These are the rules of the military you know those going in. Then you cry when the rules are enforced?

[Guest American Woman]

I can't believe how many people post stupid things online on FB and blogs and then act all mystified when it comes back to bite them in the ass. Lots of employers Google job applicants, and if there's something there that's less than impressive, it will go against the applicant. I sincerely doubt if this was the first time someone's been fired for saying something stupid on FB where their job/boss is concerned.

[bush_cheney2004]

I can't believe how many people post stupid things online on FB and blogs and then act all mystified when it comes back to bite them in the ass....

I guess scratching out an insult on the rest room wall or stall door isn't good enough anymore. These fools want the whole world to know how they "feel".

[dre]

I can't believe how many people post stupid things online on FB and blogs and then act all mystified when it comes back to bite them in the ass. Lots of employers Google job applicants, and if there's something there that's less than impressive, it will go against the applicant. I sincerely doubt if this was the first time someone's been fired for saying something stupid on FB where their job/boss is concerned.

I sincerely doubt if this was the first time someone's been fired for saying something stupid on FB where their job/boss is concerned.

No it isnt. But this kind of thing opens the door to people being punished for unpopular speech which is supposed to be protected by the 1st amandment in the US, and the Charter in Canada.

[Guest American Woman]

I guess scratching out an insult on the rest room wall or stall door isn't good enough anymore. These fools want the whole world to know how they "feel".

They take themselves and what they say on their FB pages so seriously, too - and this time other people took it seriously, so he has to face the consequences. He actually said that he wouldn't follow orders from Obama, which it is his duty to do. I sure wouldn't want to have to serve with someone with that attitude; I wouldn't want to have to depend on them.

[The_Squid]

The military is a different kettle of fish entirely. He received the appropriate punishment. He is probably lucky not to get tuned up by the his comrades....

[Michael Hardner]

Private employers can and will let you go for saying the wrong things or posting them on facebook.

[Moonlight Graham]

Mistake #1: Posting derogatory comments about your boss on Facebook.

[dre]

Mistake #1: Posting derogatory comments about your boss on Facebook.

Well unless those comments are defamatory or slanderous in nature that speech should be protected.

[jacee]

The military is a different kettle of fish entirely. He received the appropriate punishment. He is probably lucky not to get tuned up by the his comrades....

Not just the military, though justice appears swift there..

The public service has restrictions too ...

Eg, shall not ...

d) associate his or her position with political activity,

What he did was stupid of course, on a public page with his name and rank attached, I assume.

Freedom of speech comes with consequences if somebody doesn't like what you say ... like your boss.

Private communication, however, is protected.

[jacee]

Well unless those comments are defamatory or slanderous in nature that speech should be protected.

Let's see ... called Obama a "liar", said he wouldn't obey certain orders, later qualified that he meant "illegal" orders, which is saying Obama would give illegal orders ... Pretty close to the defamatory line, but I think it would be called 'insubordination' in this employment context.

'Protected' means you can't go to jail ... doesn't mean you can't get fired.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well unless those comments are defamatory or slanderous in nature that speech should be protected.

Nope....he served in the forces that protect the free speech of others. It's a noble profession!

[Topaz]

Perhaps calling the prez a liar may have saved his life, no more going to war and what ever happen to the two US soldiers that told Bush that the Iraq war shouldn't be or something along that line. I think they were recall to the US for mouthing off. Anyone know?

[Guest Derek L]

Nope....he served in the forces that protect the free speech of others. It's a noble profession!

Indeed, the same thing here with the Queen/Governor General, to the CDS and on down the food chain…….Though the CDS serves at the pleasure of the Government, the elected Government isn’t part of the chain of command of the Canadian Forces……….There is still a respect for the elected PM, MND etc, but, from time to time, you’ll get one of these:

Why elected Government isn't part of the chain of command

[bush_cheney2004]

Perhaps calling the prez a liar may have saved his life, no more going to war and what ever happen to the two US soldiers that told Bush that the Iraq war shouldn't be or something along that line. I think they were recall to the US for mouthing off. Anyone know?

Yea...one of them was named John Kerry and he lost the presidential election to George W. Bush.

[Guest EnvidozeveSen]

Hi, I'm new on this forum and I want to say hello. I read a lot of time but today I want to say this is very good site.

[Michael Hardner]

Please just join in the discussion, and try to refrain from advertising pharmaceuticals.

[GostHacked]

Private employers can and will let you go for saying the wrong things or posting them on facebook.

Employers check that kind of thing ALL the time. Employers are even asking for the facebook login credentials so they can verify who they are hiring.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2012/03/community-reaction-to-employers-asking-for-facebook-passwords.html

The vast majority of CBC readers were incensed to learn that some U.S. job applicants are being asked to share their social networking passwords with potential employers.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/facebook-passwords-employers-schools-demand-access-facebook-senators/story?id=16005565#.T5mqldmDmSo

It's become standard practice for employers and schools to peruse potential applicants' Facebook profiles. But in some cases, they are going even further: Some have demanded applicants hand over their passwords so they can view individual's restricted profiles.

Good thing I don't have a facebook profile.

[Guest American Woman]

Good thing I don't have a facebook profile.

You wouldn't have to post anything on it that you'd be embarrassed to have anyone see. Furthermore, you wouldn't have to let on that you have one. I do think this will come to a legal head, though; as the article says, it's highly likely that it's illegal to ask for access to private accounts. To me, it would be like demanding that someone turn over their personal journal. I definitely think this is something that needs to be addressed and made illegal. It's outrageous that anyone is demanding that passwords to private information be turned over.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... To me, it would be like demanding that someone turn over their personal journal. I definitely think this is something that needs to be addressed and made illegal. It's outrageous that anyone is demanding that passwords to private information be turned over.

This myth was debunked soon after being reported:

http://www.theemployerhandbook.com/2012/03/employer-demand-facebook-password.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+employmentlaw-blog%2FimGSCom+%28Employment+Law+Blog%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

Some people will fall for anything.

[Guest American Woman]

This myth was debunked soon after being reported:

http://www.theemployerhandbook.com/2012/03/employer-demand-facebook-password.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+employmentlaw-blog%2FimGSCom+%28Employment+Law+Blog%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

Some people will fall for anything.

That article doesn't say it hasn't happened, it says it is "most definitely the exception and not the rule." I never thought it was "the rule," but there shouldn't be any exceptions. Also, it doesn't say it is illegal to ask for passwords, it says "it may not be legal" - which is what I had read, and I believe that it should be made unquestionably illegal - which was my point.