waldo Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 Simple, technical data and performance levels that won’t be shared with non partner nations and nations that have not signed a security cooperative, hence a nation not being legally required to not “share” said data/figures.........You know, that thingy Mr Williams signed back in '02 so... is LockMart just going through the motions, expecting another country to blindly line up and accept F-35 sweet nothings capabilities. As I said, since Japan is neither level of partner, it's decision was based entirely on those sweet nothings capabilities... coupled with those strong incentives I highlighted - like LockMart's desperation in agreeing to manufacture in Japan... like U.S. Secretary of Defense, Panetta's, recent arm-twisting over U.S. force deployments in Japan. Clearly, we can see South Korea is no Japan in accepting those F-35 sweet nothings capabilities... perhaps more arm-twisting will yet come into play, hey? Surely you know the (soon to be) outgoing South Korean President made the verbal commitment to Obama to purchase the F-35 (for what favours?)... it made for a great hullabaloo when the government opposition parties got a hold of that little tidbit, right? Quote
waldo Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) I’ve asked already, why have none of the partners left, and why have the Japanese signed onto said “disaster”? already answered... at this stage, it doesn't cost any country anything to continue... unless they order new planes. Would you like those procurement numbers again? Incentives/arm-twisting with Japan have been highlighted. We certainly know that Japan didn't make a decision to buy their 2 planes (for evaluation purposes) based on F-35 performance, costing and delivery! speaking of Japan, didn't I highlight the desperation by LockMart in agreeing to set-up full scale production and long-term support directly in Japan. That's quite the incentive hey? Speaking of incentive and not the actual F-35 vapourware, how about that recent weeks old U.S. Government pressure, with U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta doing some fine Japanese 'arm-twisting' around the U.S.-Japan Alliance and the agreement to realign U.S. forces in Japan. Something about the Chinese and the "Pacific pivot"! Things that make you go hmmmmmmm! Edited July 9, 2012 by waldo Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 .... We certainly know that Japan didn't make a decision to buy their 2 planes (for evaluation purposes) based on F-35 performance, costing and delivery! They made their choice based on the contractor for the aircraft that they really wanted but can't have....F-22 Raptor. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Moonbox Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) That's OK...many such "disasters" are flying missions from bases around the world. Like the Raptor? *yawn* You can do better than that BC. You forgot to jab at the Canadian military too. Edited July 9, 2012 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
dre Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 It was a pretty pointless post Shady, and I'm not really seeing any beatdown happening. Well if you think about it, what are the chances that after a history of abject uselessness spanning many years, Shady would write his first meaningful post today? Youll get struck by lightening thrice before that happens Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 Like the Raptor? *yawn* You can do better than that BC. You forgot to jab at the Canadian military too. Sorry...I forgot how well I have you trained, so here 'ya go: The Americans embrace "disaster" as an opportunity...Canadians cut their disasters up and buy from the Americans instead. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 so... is LockMart just going through the motions, expecting another country to blindly line up and accept F-35 sweet nothings capabilities. As I said, since Japan is neither level of partner, it's decision was based entirely on those sweet nothings capabilities... coupled with those strong incentives I highlighted - like LockMart's desperation in agreeing to manufacture in Japan... like U.S. Secretary of Defense, Panetta's, recent arm-twisting over U.S. force deployments in Japan. Clearly, we can see South Korea is no Japan in accepting those F-35 sweet nothings capabilities... perhaps more arm-twisting will yet come into play, hey? Surely you know the (soon to be) outgoing South Korean President made the verbal commitment to Obama to purchase the F-35 (for what favours?)... it made for a great hullabaloo when the government opposition parties got a hold of that little tidbit, right? So clearly, every nations that “selects” the F-35 is a victim of US/Lockheed “bullying and arm twisting“…………. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 already answered... at this stage, it doesn't cost any country anything to continue... unless they order new planes. Would you like those procurement numbers again? Incentives/arm-twisting with Japan have been highlighted. We certainly know that Japan didn't make a decision to buy their 2 planes (for evaluation purposes) based on F-35 performance, costing and delivery! So said nations are within the partnership just on whim? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 So clearly, every nations that “selects” the F-35 is a victim of US/Lockheed “bullying and arm twisting“…………. Yes...the bullying and arm twisting is very subtle and is called....S-T-E-A-L-T-H Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 Yes...the bullying and arm twisting is very subtle and is called....S-T-E-A-L-T-H I guess Boeing, Dassault and EADS need to work on their bullying tactics Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 I guess Boeing, Dassault and EADS need to work on their bullying tactics I'm sure they are.....plus free oil changes. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) I'm sure they are.....plus free oil changes. But look at their sites: Silent Eagle Eurofighter Both manufactures market their respective aircraft has having “stealth features” and “low observability technology” incorporated into their designs………….But I thought “stealth” to be passé? Then why are Boeing and EADS marketing their aircraft with an “Can’t believe it’s not stealth” approach? Edited July 9, 2012 by Derek L Quote
Moonbox Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 Sorry...I forgot how well I have you trained, so here 'ya go: The Americans embrace "disaster" as an opportunity...Canadians cut their disasters up and buy from the Americans instead. Sure! Like the Avenger II! The Americans embraced that as an "opportunity" to build the B-2. Wait...that ended up being a mess as well. As long as the disaster leads to a disaster which leads to another disaster which finally leads to a (sort of) success, it doesn't really matter right!?!? Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 Sure! Like the Avenger II! The Americans embraced that as an "opportunity" to build the B-2. Wait...that ended up being a mess as well. As long as the disaster leads to a disaster which leads to another disaster which finally leads to a (sort of) success, it doesn't really matter right!?!? That's right sport....the Americans have canceled more programs than Canada will ever start. Their failures are on public display for all to see, from sunken ironclads to exploding space shuttles. That's why Canadian aerospace engineers went "south" to help land men on the moon after experiencing fear of failure paralysis in Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Moonbox Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 That's right sport....the Americans have canceled more programs than Canada will ever start. Their failures are on public display for all to see, from sunken ironclads to exploding space shuttles. That's why Canadian aerospace engineers went "south" to help land men on the moon after experiencing fear of failure paralysis in Canada. You mean it's not because you spend about 30x more per year on your military than Canada? Here I was thinking that the best and brightest normally go where the money is, and now I'm finding out it's not true! You're right about one thing though, you guys ARE good at spinning disasters into successes. The wasting of hundreds of billions and a long string of failures is a testament to your dogged determination and enterprising commercial spirit. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Topaz Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 Here's the 10 top jets built and the price of these is a lot cheaper than the F-35, enjoy the slide show. http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-the-best-fighter-jets-in-the-world/20101213.htm Quote
Wild Bill Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 Here's the 10 top jets built and the price of these is a lot cheaper than the F-35, enjoy the slide show. http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-the-best-fighter-jets-in-the-world/20101213.htm Topaz, I guess you haven't been following the thread very closely. With the exception of the F-22, which is NOT for sale, they are all cheaper because they are all older generation technologies. One of the key factors is stealth technology, which means being VERY hard to pick up with radar and other detection methods! This makes a plane very hard to detect and shoot down. The F-35 is the plane for the future. ALL your examples, again excepting the F-22 which no one can buy, do not have any stealth capability remotely as good as the F-35, if at all. Canada is asking for a new plane that will be useful and competitive for the next few decades. She also wants a plane where some of the manufacturing contracts can be filled by Canadian plants. The F-35 does that. If we go with a European choice we don't get any Canadian jobs from the deal. Really, your link doesn't present ANY real alternatives for us at all! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 You mean it's not because you spend about 30x more per year on your military than Canada? Here I was thinking that the best and brightest normally go where the money is, and now I'm finding out it's not true! No money in Canada? I guess that's why the doctors and nurses left for the "states" too. You're right about one thing though, you guys ARE good at spinning disasters into successes. The wasting of hundreds of billions and a long string of failures is a testament to your dogged determination and enterprising commercial spirit. No balls...no blue chips. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shady Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 you guys ARE good at spinning disasters into successes. The wasting of hundreds of billions and a long string of failures is a testament to your dogged determination Wait, are we still talking about the F-35s, or global warming and green energy? Quote
waldo Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 So clearly, every nations that “selects” the F-35 is a victim of US/Lockheed “bullying and arm twisting“…………. as I highlighted, per the specifics mentioned, Norway and Japan were. Do you really want me to quote you back your recent hilarious posts whining about 'Boeing favouritism'? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 as I highlighted, per the specifics mentioned, Norway and Japan were. Do you really want me to quote you back your recent hilarious posts whining about 'Boeing favouritism'? Gee, that explains why Canada bought four broke dick submarines. Now it all makes sense....bullying. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 Wait, are we still talking about the F-35s, or global warming and green energy? you keep spouting off in this thread about green energy... now global warming. C'mon, you're being encouraged, warmly and openly, to raise a related post in an appropriate thread... or start a new thread. You appear to be particularly emboldened over something; like I said, did you get charged up over some red-meat you read in a British tabloid? Please share - inquiring minds and all that, ya know. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 Gee, that explains why Canada bought four broke dick submarines. Now it all makes sense....bullying. But if a perspective F-35 buyer ended up selecting a Boeing or EADS product, there’s certainly no “bullying” about…………That is of course, unless someone selects an EADS aerial tanker over a Boeing tanker… Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 But if a perspective F-35 buyer ended up selecting a Boeing or EADS product, there’s certainly no “bullying” about…………That is of course, unless someone selects an EADS aerial tanker over a Boeing tanker… Or if a potential buyer procures CC-177's from Boeing then that wouldn't be "bullying" either....no suh! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted July 9, 2012 Report Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) Or if a potential buyer procures CC-177's from Boeing then that wouldn't be "bullying" either....no suh! But what about EADS? They offered the A400M, not only once, but twice, and we went with the Lockheed Jerc.........Can’t we all just get along? Edited July 10, 2012 by Derek L Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.