Breaking Bad

[cybercoma]

The ending was satisfying, but that's really all that can be said about it. It wasn't what I would have preferred for an ending, since the show had always been about impossible decisions in uncontrollable situations. The whole MacGyver thing was really B Movie material. In any case, it's interesting how they continued to complicate Walter right up to the very end.

[Michael Hardner]

Hear hear. But this really was a B Movie, all the way through. It was engaging enough, but really the hype around this show isn't supported by what it was.

[cybercoma]

Hear hear. But this really was a B Movie, all the way through. It was engaging enough, but really the hype around this show isn't supported by what it was.

We'll have to disagree about that one. I think it was certainly one of the best dramas in television history. The story telling and directing was always subtle. Contrast Breaking Bad's writing with Dexter to understand what I mean about subtlety. It also had an appropriate blend of dark humour to break up the heaviness of the show. But where Breaking Bad really shines is the performances from the actors. Some of the moments between Aaron Paul and Bryan Cranston were extraordinary. Giancarlo Esposito nailed the Gus Fring character. Anna Gunn, for all the abuse she has taken from so-called fans, was magnificent in the scene where she's running down the street in "Ozymandias". I've never seen a set of actors so dialed in to their characters on a television show as I have with Breaking Bad. I'll give you that the show used cheap cliff hanger writing as a device for retaining viewership, but some of the best novelists do this from chapter to chapter.

Nah. Breaking Bad wasn't generally a B-Movie in disguise. The problem, imo, is that AMC extended them another 16 episodes and they ran that over 2 seasons. There is so much more that could have been done, but wasn't. I think the writers did the best with what they had. The show really ended, however, with the Los Pollos Hermanos storyline. After that it was a rush to the finish line, which introduced the idiotic bikers that never really clicked with me.

[Michael Hardner]

We'll have to disagree about that one. I think it was certainly one of the best dramas in television history. The story telling and directing was always subtle. Contrast Breaking Bad's writing with Dexter to understand what I mean about subtlety.

First of all, it's pointless to compare it against 'television drama' if you're going to try to metricize "the best" show. You have to compare against other long-form cable shows, post HBO, ie. Six Feet Under and later.

It also had an appropriate blend of dark humour to break up the heaviness of the show. But where Breaking Bad really shines is the performances from the actors. Some of the moments between Aaron Paul and Bryan Cranston were extraordinary. Giancarlo Esposito nailed the Gus Fring character. Anna Gunn, for all the abuse she has taken from so-called fans, was magnificent in the scene where she's running down the street in "Ozymandias". I've never seen a set of actors so dialed in to their characters on a television show as I have with Breaking Bad. I'll give you that the show used cheap cliff hanger writing as a device for retaining viewership, but some of the best novelists do this from chapter to chapter.

Right, but... it's just a potboiler pulp fiction show, with a bit more mature writing and with swearing and violence allowed.

It has its merits, but I just don't think you should take it seriously - and this is what we should be talking about now, since TV has finally hit the quality level of films.

[Boges]

I'll go as far as saying that calling Breaking Bad "B Movie" is rather insulting to all those people that loved the show.

Everyone has the right to their opinion but the show was brilliantly written, had a great balance of suspense, violence, intelligence and humour.

As for the jerry-rigged machine gun in the trunk. It shows the type of problem solving that made Walt the character he was. The show is littered with brilliant ways he got out of tough situations. The writers get the cast into tough situations and they get out somehow.

See the episode Salud where Gus manages to poison and entire cartel in Mexico. See Faceoff where Walt finds a way to kill Gus. See One Minute where Hank is able to escape 2 Mexican hitmen alive. And see the finale where Walt is able to take out a group of Neo Nazi's and poison a former associate with Ricin.

If you find all those situations unbelievable, that's fine . . . BUT IT'S TV!!!! It's not meant to be all that realistic anyway.

I never followed the Wire or Sopranos so I can't comment on those shows. But Breaking Bad is certainly the most engaging Television Show I've ever seen.

[BubberMiley]

The best thing about Breaking Bad is that it was written with a beginning, a middle, and an end, like a good novel. And like a novel, it's impossible to pass judgment on it unless you've consumed it from the beginning. The best part about it is how it refers back to itself, and that is something that is lost on people who came in later in the story.

[Boges]

The problem, imo, is that AMC extended them another 16 episodes and they ran that over 2 seasons. There is so much more that could have been done, but wasn't. I think the writers did the best with what they had. The show really ended, however, with the Los Pollos Hermanos storyline. After that it was a rush to the finish line, which introduced the idiotic bikers that never really clicked with me.

Can't really agree with that. The Gus storyline certainly was the show's strongest but you can't end the series with Walt being Cancer Free and having just killed the meth king he aspires to become.

I think Season 5 was really 2 separate seasons. The first part shows Walt picking up the pieces Gus has left behind and creating his own successful meth operation. At the end of the first 8 episodes he's accomplished all he wanted and is bored. Skyler shows him how much money he's made and there's no real point to continue on.

But then his hubris allows Hank to figure him out He's also made friends with very shady people, It was the beginning of his downfall. And that leads us to the second half of the fifth season.

Without Season 5 we wouldn't have my favourite episode, the Train heist episode where in the midst of absolute victory Todd shoots a boy and we get a glimpse of what the final enemy will become.

[Michael Hardner]

If you find all those situations unbelievable, that's fine . . . BUT IT'S TV!!!! It's not meant to be all that realistic anyway.

It's odd that you resist the 'B Movie' designation, but point out all the gimmicky TV tricks that the writers did. It's not an insult to say that it's a B Movie, especially if it's an excellent B Movie.

[Boges]

It's odd that you resist the 'B Movie' designation, but point out all the gimmicky TV tricks that the writers did. It's not an insult to say that it's a B Movie, especially if it's an excellent B Movie.

Unless you're doing a True Story, aren't any ideas a TV writer comes up with considered "Gimmicky"?

[Michael Hardner]

I don't think so, but maybe TV is known for gimmicks more than other media ?

[cybercoma]

Can't really agree with that. The Gus storyline certainly was the show's strongest but you can't end the series with Walt being Cancer Free and having just killed the meth king he aspires to become.

That's not what I mean. I don't mean the show should have ended there. I mean that's when the show took a turn. I don't think it was ever meant to end with the biker gang. It seems incongruous.

Think about it this way. With Gus Fring, Walter overthrew a brilliant criminal mastermind and just opened the door to a global market. We never again saw those world players, except for Lydia's panic at not getting the product she needed to appease them. We're talking about a force much bigger than a bunch of cracked out white supremacists. But this story was never explored further. Not only could it have been, but it should have been. These ultimately should have been the forces that Walter was confronted with. Something finally beyond his control and so insanely big that it was unmanageable. Instead we get to see this by proxy through Todd's gang? It was a cop-out and likely a result of AMC underfunding the last two seasons.

Don't get me wrong. I love the show. In my opinion, it's the best show ever made for television. Absolutely brilliant. That's why I'm being critical because they did an amazing job with what they had, but it could have been so much more if AMC didn't short change them.

[Boges]

The Neo-Nazis were just a natural progression. I think the European market was just an added frill to keep Lydia relevant in the story. If you remember before she pitches that idea to Walt she was meant to get Ricin'd then.

You have Fring's guys in jail being appeased by Mike's money. Once Mike and his lawyer are compromised something has to be done about Fring's guys. The only people can do anything about them is some sinister organization like Uncle Jack's crew.

So Walt is forced to make friends with some evil people. You knew when he wanted out, that his relationship with them was going to come back and bite him. Walt makes things worse when he trades his talents for them killing Jessie. And it all goes to Hell.

I personally thought Uncle Jack was the best antagonist since Tucco. He didn't have any redeeming qualities like Gus, you didn't cheer for him. And when they finally get it, it felt very satisfying.

[cybercoma]

Some good points. I never thought of Breaking Bad as being written in sort of a way that resembles movements in a piece of classical music or verse-chorus-verse of modern music. Walt started out by getting involved with some sketchy dealers, not because he wanted to but because he needed to, then the Gus Fring story (don't need to rehash here and outline how this relationship was much different), then the skinheads mirror the shady stuff at the beginning; however, this time Walter seeks them out. It mirrors, but is slightly different.

I'll need to think more about this. The skinheads make a lot of sense this way. Good ideas, Boges.

[Michael Hardner]

Not classical music, but vibrant "pop" music. Look at the plotline you describe - it's a thriller for sure.

[kimmy]

Breaking Bad: the story of a small businessman trying to survive the Obama administration's relentless war on job creators.

-k

[bleeding heart]

It's odd that you resist the 'B Movie' designation, but point out all the gimmicky TV tricks that the writers did. It's not an insult to say that it's a B Movie, especially if it's an excellent B Movie.

I can agree with this, but I might be more inclined to blur the lines between B movies and Prestige pieces...or "literary" novels with the "popular" variety. The lines are problematic, and this is a good thing.

I'd think of Breaking Bad in the genre-crunching tradition of (since you mentioned film) Pulp Fiction, or Seven Psychopaths (I know, nobody saw 7 P...but everyone should. It's quite brilliant.)

Or any number of Stanley Kubrick films, now that I think of it.

I suppose "gimmicky" might be apt, but the connotations are off a little. You mention Six Feet Under; were the prologue Death Scenes not very obviously "gimmicky"? (Note: I'm not criticizing this, I liked it.) Did the Sopranos not use a gimmicky framing device--psychoanalytic confession, lifted straight from Analyze This?

Or, for one you've noted with approval: Mad Men.

Well, it's all pretty subjective, for sure, and I really DO understand how some people aren't as in love with BB as I am. For what it's worth, I thought Breaking Bad sort of--just ok--for the first season.

Season Two caught me off guard, however, and it is now my favourite tv drama, of all time.

Edited October 5, 2013 by bleeding heart

[bleeding heart]

As far as jaw-dropping endings go, the final bit of season 4 was really something to behold.

Still, I liked the show's finale. And ultimately, Walt achieved his initial goal--at least more or less--even if it wasn't ideal, and even though (as he admitted to Skyler) his reasons were not entirely "pure" (ie helping his family.)

[Michael Hardner]

I can agree with this, but I might be more inclined to blur the lines between B movies and Prestige pieces...or "literary" novels with the "popular" variety. The lines are problematic, and this is a good thing.

I'd think of Breaking Bad in the genre-crunching tradition of (since you mentioned film) Pulp Fiction, or Seven Psychopaths (I know, nobody saw 7 P...but everyone should. It's quite brilliant.)

Or any number of Stanley Kubrick films, now that I think of it.

I suppose "gimmicky" might be apt, but the connotations are off a little. You mention Six Feet Under; were the prologue Death Scenes not very obviously "gimmicky"? (Note: I'm not criticizing this, I liked it.) Did the Sopranos not use a gimmicky framing device--psychoanalytic confession, lifted straight from Analyze This?

Or, for one you've noted with approval: Mad Men.

Well, it's all pretty subjective, for sure, and I really DO understand how some people aren't as in love with BB as I am. For what it's worth, I thought Breaking Bad sort of--just ok--for the first season.

Season Two caught me off guard, however, and it is now my favourite tv drama, of all time.

I think we're on the same page here. If you want to pick two genres that BB synthesized, it might be pulp b-movie film noir, and TV suburban dramas. ( Falconcrest ? Was that one ? )

[bleeding heart]

I think we're on the same page here. If you want to pick two genres that BB synthesized, it might be pulp b-movie film noir, and TV suburban dramas. ( Falconcrest ? Was that one ? )

It was, but I would argue that the Falcon Crest type, as well as most police and hospital dramas, are fundamentally status quo oriented. "Conservative," really, though I don't mean that in any sort of partisan sense.

Breaking Bad is, I think, a lot more subversive. It's essentially the middle-class suburban drama exploded to epic and absurd proportions, with a heady dose of questioning notions of the American dream, and of middle-class manhood.

Edited October 5, 2013 by bleeding heart

[Guest Derek L]

The finale is going to be entitled "FeLiNa", which is an anagram for the word "finale". It also represents the elements Iron, Lithium, and Sodium, which can also be understood as Blood, Meth, and Tears.

Nah, the title and theme of the Story was a nod (as made evident to the opening scene where he finds the Robbins tape) to this song:

http://youtu.be/kIHRgisdbeY

Of course, you’d have to be both really old and a fan of the show to know this

None the less, I thought they ended it very well, and in my opinion, one of TV's better finales of all time.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Derek L

[Boges]

So this is how many thought Breaking Bad should have ended.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jacelacob/this-breaking-bad-alternate-ending-must-be-seen-to-be-believ

[bleeding heart]

Pretty funny.

[ReeferMadness]

If you have watched parts of the show and then given up, I get it, believe me; I saw a few episodes, thought, "not bad," and then moved on.

But when, at the insistence of my wife, I gave in and watched the whole series, I was knocked flat on my bum. The show is unbelievably good, unbelievably addictive, with enough "Holy Crap" moments to cripple a lesser show in absurdity (See Dexter, for example).

The fourth season finale is among the best television I've watched in my 45 years.

Apparently, there is to be a fifth season; and I'm ambivalent about it. On the one hand, I'm thrilled to see another season of Walter White behaving like some sort of rational lunatic, while we the audience irrationally cheer on his criminal enterprising. On the other hand, the season finale that I've mentioned is such a pitch-perfect way to end the whole shebang that I worry about overkill, of damaging something almost pristine.

As someone said, "A work of art is never completed; it is abandoned with dignity."

We're watching on Netflix, in season 2. Everyone is telling me it's so great, I'm hanging in but frankly I have to say that the plot seems kind of cheesy. Does it get better or is this just a case of me not liking what everyone else likes?

[bleeding heart]

We're watching on Netflix, in season 2. Everyone is telling me it's so great, I'm hanging in but frankly I have to say that the plot seems kind of cheesy. Does it get better or is this just a case of me not liking what everyone else likes?

You might be asking the wrong guy....I despise Forrest Gump.

[Boges]

Yeah I don't know many people that don't like Breaking Bad.

2nd season is where it gets it's legs with a season that comes full circle with the Cold Openings to each episode foreshadowing what comes at the end of the season.

Season 3 and 4 are the best once we introduce Gus Fring as an antagonist/anti-hero.