Guest Derek L Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 we're talking assumptions here, you made a textbook assumption and you denied you made it I can assume a lot of things too ya know Do you assume a lesser death toll with the continuation of the fire bombing of Japanese cities and the blockade of fuel and food to the Japanese Homeland? Do you assume the tenacity of the Japanese solider would have been less so well defending his home Islands as compared to say Guam? Quote
olpfan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 Do you assume a lesser death toll with the continuation of the fire bombing of Japanese cities and the blockade of fuel and food to the Japanese Homeland? Do you assume the tenacity of the Japanese solider would have been less so well defending his home Islands as compared to say Guam? I don't assume or play what if games, their is no point really We could be here all day playing what if hitler didn't stab Russia in the back and what if U.S didn't drop the nuke..it's a waste of time Quote
Wild Bill Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 I don't assume or play what if games, their is no point really We could be here all day playing what if hitler didn't stab Russia in the back and what if U.S didn't drop the nuke..it's a waste of time Well, all I can say is that the level of evidence at the time for the alternative approached certainty. The world is lucky that someone of your viewpoint was NOT in charge! The odds are overwhelming that if you had made the decision according to your arguments that hundreds of thousands if not millions would have died. You can afford to play debating games. Truman did not have that luxury. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
olpfan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Well, all I can say is that the level of evidence at the time for the alternative approached certainty. The world is lucky that someone of your viewpoint was NOT in charge! The odds are overwhelming that if you had made the decision according to your arguments that hundreds of thousands if not millions would have died. You can afford to play debating games. Truman did not have that luxury. U.S joins the combat part of the war way late and then decides to drop a nuke, yeah, quite the performance by the americans Edited March 8, 2012 by olpfan1 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 U.S joins the combat part of the war way late and then decides to drop a nuke, yeah, quite the performance by the americans Canada had about 600 KIAs in the entire Pacific war. The Americans lost over 100,000. Operation Downfall The Canadian 6th Division had been formed and was training to take part in the proposed invasion of Japan. Canadian ships in the British Pacific Fleet and bomber squadrons transferred from Europe with Tiger Force would also have been involved. The invasion was rendered unnecessary by the use of nuclear weapons against Japan. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olpfan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 Canada had about 600 KIAs in the entire Pacific war. The Americans lost over 100,000. Operation Downfall The Canadian 6th Division had been formed and was training to take part in the proposed invasion of Japan. Canadian ships in the British Pacific Fleet and bomber squadrons transferred from Europe with Tiger Force would also have been involved. The invasion was rendered unnecessary by the use of nuclear weapons against Japan. The Pacific wasn't really our arena of the war Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 The Pacific wasn't really our arena of the war Why not? No hockey in Japan? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olpfan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 Why not? No hockey in Japan? always quick with the wit you are haha Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 always quick with the wit you are haha Yep...that's me...smart ass 'merkin to the very end. Americans even had to build the Al-Can highway for you! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olpfan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 Yep...that's me...smart ass 'merkin to the very end. Americans even had to build the Al-Can highway for you! Canadians don't call Americans 'Merkins" I don't know where you got that from Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 Canadians don't call Americans 'Merkins" I don't know where you got that from Oh, I'm pretty sure I picked it up around here. One can learn so many wonderful things on this forum. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olpfan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Oh, I'm pretty sure I picked it up around here. One can learn so many wonderful things on this forum. oh did ya, well they don't count, but people here in Ontario instead of saying U.S or U.S.A or America say "The States" you may or may not have known that Edited March 8, 2012 by olpfan1 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 oh did ya, well they don't count, but people here in Ontario instead of saying U.S or U.S.A or America say "The States" you may or may not have known that Oh sure...I knew that. I have also learned that there is more to Canada than just Ontariario. Americans do not say "The Provinces". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olpfan1 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 Oh sure...I knew that. I have also learned that there is more to Canada than just Ontariario. Americans do not say "The Provinces". Yeah I know, they probably think we have states Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 Yeah I know, they probably think we have states No, mostly they think Canada is just a big wilderness theme park. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
j44 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 No, mostly they think Canada is just a big wilderness theme park. It would be awesome if it was. Quote
eyeball Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 How so? Since the Americans used nukes to end WWII and prevent hundreds of thousands of future casualties, what country with the Bomb has used it? Ten bucks says if the Japanese had possessed the Bomb the U.S. would - instead of bombing them - have welcomed them to the club and invited them to join the west in preventing anyone else from getting one. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Guest Derek L Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 I don't assume or play what if games, their is no point really We could be here all day playing what if hitler didn't stab Russia in the back and what if U.S didn't drop the nuke..it's a waste of time Didn’t you just “what if” Argentina invaded the Falklands? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 U.S joins the combat part of the war way late and then decides to drop a nuke, yeah, quite the performance by the americans Yet, the Canadian Army didn’t take unit action until the Fall of Hong Kong & Dieppe………. Quote
MACKER Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Yep...that's me...smart ass 'merkin to the very end. Americans even had to build the Al-Can highway for you! YEAH FOR US... AS IN UNITED STATES YEAH CAUSE THE PIPELINE POLLUTION RAPED NATIVES 2000KM TRACK OF ILLEGALLY HUNTED AND CLEAR CUT FOREST TO MATCH THE MUDDY QAUGMIRED ROADS WAS SUCH A GIFT OF AMERICAN ENGINEERING. Just like Keystone XL is a gift for Americans.. You are also forgetting the fact that Canadians paid for the road, and that the US started building it before Canadians accepted the project.. What would the arctic be without American venereal Disease? Edited March 10, 2012 by MACKER Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 You are also forgetting the fact that Canadians paid for the road, and that the US started building it before Canadians accepted the project.. Canada paid for the road after the fact. Forgiveness is easier to get than permission. What would the arctic be without American venereal Disease? Satisfied with just Canadian crabs? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Good piece. I liked his wee movie a lot. So...a McNamara fan if he's not busy sending in the B-52s, eh? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 I liked his wee movie a lot. So...a McNamara fan if he's not busy sending in the B-52s, eh? I said I liked the piece. Quote
Wild Bill Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 YEAH FOR US... AS IN UNITED STATES YEAH CAUSE THE PIPELINE POLLUTION RAPED NATIVES 2000KM TRACK OF ILLEGALLY HUNTED AND CLEAR CUT FOREST TO MATCH THE MUDDY QAUGMIRED ROADS WAS SUCH A GIFT OF AMERICAN ENGINEERING. What would the arctic be without American venereal Disease? You really seem to go over the top with the hyperbole of your arguments. I took the liberty of sourcing some like-minded rhetoric you may wish to use as a model: DENNIS: Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. ARTHUR: Be quiet! DENNIS: Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you! ARTHUR: Shut up! DENNIS: I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away! ARTHUR: Shut up! Will you shut up! DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system. ARTHUR: Shut up! DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed! ARTHUR: Bloody peasant! DENNIS: Oh, what a give away. Did you here that, did you here that, eh? That's what I'm on about -- did you see him repressing me, you saw it didn't you? The full script for your reference can be found here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/mphg/mphg.htm Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
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