.

[capricorn]

What is your speculation ...

I'll leave speculation to you since it's your strong suit.

[jacee]

I'll leave speculation to you since it's your strong suit.

Rogers and Racknine have been issued court orders to produce information.

Then perhaps you know ... Has Racknine been issued a court order to produce the name of the Conservative party operative who referred 'Pierre' to them to set up the fraudulent account?

Edited May 12, 2012 by jacee

[capricorn]

Has Racknine been issued a court order to produce the name of the Conservative party operative who referred 'Pierre' to them to set up the fraudulent account?

You're the one who can rhyme off all the "facts". Why don't you tell me?

[madmax]

You're the one who can rhyme off all the "facts". Why don't you tell me?

Pierre Jones, aka Pierre Poutine, aka Andrew Prescott... spoke directly to Matt Meir on his private phone line. When asked how Pierre Jones received that number... Jones stated he was given it by the Conservative Central Campaign.

That is Miers story.

[Signals.Cpl]

Pierre Jones, aka Pierre Poutine, aka Andrew Prescott... spoke directly to Matt Meir on his private phone line. When asked how Pierre Jones received that number... Jones stated he was given it by the Conservative Central Campaign.

That is Miers story.

Thats also hearsay

[capricorn]

When asked how Pierre Jones received that number... Jones stated he was given it by the Conservative Central Campaign.

That's not necessarily so madmax.

"Pierre initially called Meier on Meier's unlisted extension directly and asked for him by name," Mathews wrote. "Pierre referred to knowing someone in the Conservative Party. In Meier's view, these facts meant that someone must have given Pierre his contact information."

(my emphasis)

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Robocalls+probe+extends+Tory+headquarters/6468552/story.html

Claiming to know someone in the party is not the same as the Central Campaign office proactively providing the contact information to the perp.

[jacee]

Pierre Jones, aka Pierre Poutine, aka Andrew Prescott... spoke directly to Matt Meir on his private phone line. When asked how Pierre Jones received that number... Jones stated he was given it by the Conservative Central Campaign.

That is Miers story.

Repeating previous link:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/touch/news/story.html?id=6468552

In an affidavit filed to obtain a production order to trace the email account used by the culprit in Guelph, Mathews [Elections Canada investigator] wrote that Meier set up the account after he received a phone call from someone who gave him a reference.

"Pierre initially called Meier on Meier's unlisted extension directly and asked for him by name," Mathews wrote. "Pierre referred to knowing someone in the Conservative Party. In Meier's view, these facts meant that someone must have given Pierre his contact information."

Meier has not revealed what name was cited by the person establishing the fake account.

I think Meier has 'the name' though he didn't reveal it to reporters. I am just curious whether he is obligated (under court order, etc) to reveal it to EC investigators or police.

[madmax]

That's not necessarily so madmax.

LOL

Of course , cause when Meirs was making those comments, Andrew Prescott (Whom he knew through a long business association) had not yet been identified as Pierre Poutine...who is the person that Meirs states is Pierre Jones.

I find it of great interest that Pierre Jones (Prescott) could call Meirs on his private line and Meirs not realize its Prescott.

So... yes you are correct its not necessarily so..

However, as things roll ahead...

If I get more substative proof that the Federal Campaigns emails show information on how to have other parties pay for the "EC" robocalls ... then things are going to bust open....

I have seen some early stuff but I am not biting...

[Shakeyhands]

It stands to reason that EC investigators would examine party records held in various locations and on different systems. It doesn't mean the party is under investigation and nowhere is it reported that such is the case. Rogers and Racknine have been issued court orders to produce information. That doesn't translate into Rogers or Racknine being under investigation.

Just more "interviews" I guess eh Capricorn?

[capricorn]

[jacee]

Use at your own risk ... unverified source ... unverified motives ...

http://unfuckwithable.ca/post/22711996927

Subject of Communications: Fantino directly contacts Finley(PM Harper’s #2 and now a Senator) about using federal party resources to pay for robocalling in 2008 general election and 2010 Vaughan by- election.  Finley explains which company to use and how to hide actual costs for voter suppression and robocalling in Elections Canada expense reports to not raise suspicion, and asks Fantino ...

Etc etc

[jacee]

Judge overturns election result in Etobicoke- Centre

Wrzesnewskyj lost by 26 votes to Conservative Ted Opitz in last May’s federal election but a judge ruled Friday that the result is null and void due to voting irregularities.

Judge Thomas Lederer, who heard

arguments from Wresnewskyj’s lawyer that the balloting in Etobicoke-Centre was marred by extensive foul-ups, set aside 79 ballots in his decision.

The beginning of a trend ... ?

I expect this byelection will be a test of Harper's declining support due to the suspicions around election fraud.

How many seats does Harper need to lose to lose his majority ... 13?

Counting ...

Edited May 18, 2012 by jacee

[Signals.Cpl]

Judge overturns election result in Etobicoke- Centre

Wrzesnewskyj lost by 26 votes to Conservative Ted Opitz in last May’s federal election but a judge ruled Friday that the result is null and void due to voting irregularities.

Judge Thomas Lederer, who heard

arguments from Wresnewskyj’s lawyer that the balloting in Etobicoke-Centre was marred by extensive foul-ups, set aside 79 ballots in his decision.

The beginning of a trend ... ?

I expect this byelection will be a test of Harper's declining support due to the suspicions around election fraud.

How many seats does Harper need to lose to lose his majority ... 13?

Counting ...

voting irregularities that had nothing to do with the Conservatives, rather it was the people manning the polling station. But that does not feed in to your bias does it?

[waldo]

Robocalls - facts:

1. Elections Canada investigator Al Mathews started looking into complaints in Guelph on May 5, 2011, three days after the election that saw reports of illicit phone calls. The winning candidate in the riding, Liberal Frank Valeriote, compiled a list of almost 80 names of people complaining about the calls. News of the investigation didn't break until Feb. 22, 2012.

2. All political parties use automated robocalls and live calls to identify voter support and contact people during a campaign. The campaign of Guelph Conservative candidate Marty Burke used RackNine, a company that offers voice broadcasting services, to make legitimate robocalls to campaign supporters. The person who made the fraudulent robocalls also used RackNine.

3. The person who made the calls used a disposable, or burner, cellphone, registered to a "Pierre Poutine." The RackNine charges were paid via PayPal using prepaid credit cards, purchased at two Shoppers Drug Mart stores in Guelph. Shoppers Drug Mart doesn't keep its security camera videos long enough to see who bought the cards more than a year ago.

4. Elections Canada traced the IP address used to access RackNine on election day and send the fraudulent message. Mathews got a court order for Rogers, the company that provided the internet service to that IP address, to provide the customer information that matches that address, on March 20, 2012.

5. Pierre Poutine and Burke campaign worker Andrew Prescott accessed their RackNine accounts using the same IP address. On election day, they accessed their RackNine accounts from the same IP address within four minutes of each other, Mathews says in documents filed in court.

6. A court document lists the billing account numbers for the customer information provided by Rogers to Mathews. Those accounts don't match the number found on the Burke campaign's Rogers invoices submitted to Elections Canada, suggesting RackNine wasn't accessed through a computer in the Burke campaign office.

7. Two Conservative staffers, accompanied by the party's lawyer, told Mathews they overheard Michael Sona, another Burke campaign worker, talking about "making a misleading poll moving call." Sona, who stepped down from a job in the office of Conservative MP Eve Adams when the story broke, has previously said he had nothing to do with the misleading calls.

8. Arthur Hamilton, the Conservative Party's lawyer, told Mathews the list of phone numbers uploaded to RackNine by Pierre Poutine appeared to be a list of identified non-Conservative supporters, with data on it that was updated in CIMS, the party's database, days before the election. The CBC's Terry Milewski had reported a similar pattern after sifting through complaints in 31 ridings.

9. News coverage led to 40,000 people contacting Elections Canada one way or another — whether to report a misdirecting call or by signing an online petition to express concern that it had happened — chief electoral officer Marc Mayrand told a parliamentary committee in April. There are now specific allegations in almost 200 ridings by 800 people.

[madmax]

voting irregularities that had nothing to do with the Conservatives, rather it was the people manning the polling station. But that does not feed in to your bias does it?

You are correct.. and in my recent discoveries... I found out something interesting. Many many many many of the people working in Polling Stations actually help political parties and are of more help on the inside. It is not unusual to have a booth manned by two conservatives or two Liberals. Same with the returning officers. These people are supposed to be non partisan , but often they are very partizan and while the vast majority are HONEST, there are always a few bad apples.

So in this case...its either incompetence or bad apples.

I used to think these paid volunteers had no bias, then I discovered that more tend to show up for the work instead of being a scrutineer. And they people hiring often are of a political background who put it aside for the period of their involvement with EC.

[Signals.Cpl]

You are correct.. and in my recent discoveries... I found out something interesting. Many many many many of the people working in Polling Stations actually help political parties and are of more help on the inside. It is not unusual to have a booth manned by two conservatives or two Liberals. Same with the returning officers. These people are supposed to be non partisan , but often they are very partizan and while the vast majority are HONEST, there are always a few bad apples.

So in this case...its either incompetence or bad apples.

I used to think these paid volunteers had no bias, then I discovered that more tend to show up for the work instead of being a scrutineer. And they people hiring often are of a political background who put it aside for the period of their involvement with EC.

If its incompetence fire them.

If its bad apples fire them, fine them, and then promptly throw their ass in jail.

The idea is be objective until you get the facts together instead of going around and putting the blame to vote fraud blame the Conservatives and then start moulding the evidence to fit the predetermined guilty party.

[waldo]

The idea is be objective until you get the facts together instead of going around and putting the blame to vote fraud blame the Conservatives and then start moulding the evidence to fit the predetermined guilty party.

sooooooooo... objectively speaking... voter suppression of non-Conservative voters would be undertaken by what party and it's supporters?

[Signals.Cpl]

sooooooooo... objectively speaking... voter suppression of non-Conservative voters would be undertaken by what party and it's supporters?

incompetence? Or do you want a smaller word?

[waldo]

incompetence? Or do you want a smaller word?

soooooooo... in the same way your reply, this following reply, presumed to a greater bias for MLW member 'jacee'

voting irregularities that had nothing to do with the Conservatives, rather it was the people manning the polling station. But that does not feed in to your bias does it?

my reply, this following reply, aligns with your call for objectivity, while speaking to the greater voter suppression of non-Conservative voters across Canada. Have you heard... it's referred to as Robocalling, Misdirection, Vote Moving, etc.! I believe there's a MLW thread on it!

The idea is be objective until you get the facts together instead of going around and putting the blame to vote fraud blame the Conservatives and then start moulding the evidence to fit the predetermined guilty party.

sooooooooo... objectively speaking... voter suppression of non-Conservative voters would be undertaken by what party and it's supporters?

in any case, you failed to answer the question... is there a problem?

[Topaz]

IF there's mistakes being made at the voting stations then EC better get on top of it, but from what I have seen over the years, at least, in my area, they go by the rules, and you have to prove who you are and show were you live but its a small area. I suppose more mistakes get by the larger centres like Toronto etc. Pehaps more hired or volunteer people could take over and check things out. I will say in the next election, with all the items the Alliance/Tories are cutting and they are hurting many people, even their own supporters, I can't see them getting in again and if they do, I would really check all voting ballots again. I'm not saying this because of my view of this party but of Tory supporters I've heard saying, that they won't vote for this party again because they are NOT Conservatives, they're reformers, and they don't like what the party is doing.

[Rick]

The next election we need to have the U.N. here to supervise polling..

Canada's become a banana republic with Harper and his party of fraudsters in charge.

I'd suggest, that there be booths set up for each of the party's and voters should be filmed to verify which/whose booth they go to to cast their vote.

That way there could be no mistake.

Well unless the Conservatives figure out another way in their record of breaking the law and violations of Canada's Elections Act...

[Signals.Cpl]

The next election we need to have the U.N. here to supervise polling..

Canada's become a banana republic with Harper and his party of fraudsters in charge.

I'd suggest, that there be booths set up for each of the party's and voters should be filmed to verify which/whose booth they go to to cast their vote.

That way there could be no mistake.

Well unless the Conservatives figure out another way in their record of breaking the law and violations of Canada's Elections Act...

You answer is to remove the secret ballots? Genius, and you called me a fascist.

[Rick]

You answer is to remove the secret ballots? Genius, and you called me a fascist.

Hey, if you're not rigging an election...you've got nothing to hide then and no need for secrecy right?

Right?????

[Signals.Cpl]

Hey, if you're not rigging an election...you've got nothing to hide then and no need for secrecy right?

Right?????

Whats next? Get rid of the elections? You don't go backwards to "fix" a problem. Secret ballots ensure that people cannot be intimidated to vote one way or another. This is a case of "fixing" a problem by creating a whole list of other problems. You want to fix the problem? There are so many other ways to do it then to dismantle democracy as we know it.

[Rick]

Whats next? Get rid of the elections? You don't go backwards to "fix" a problem. Secret ballots ensure that people cannot be intimidated to vote one way or another. This is a case of "fixing" a problem by creating a whole list of other problems. You want to fix the problem? There are so many other ways to do it then to dismantle democracy as we know it.

So your solution is more of the same...election rigging then.

You being a Harper fan, I can see why you'd hate to hold open accountable elections without the need for secrecy.

Voter intimidation? You mean like Robo-Calling.... or individuals from the Conservative party of Canada disrupting a special ballot polling station on the University of Guelph campus.

That kind of voter intimidation?