Another POP singers dies

[August1991]

It's an old story...Billie Holiday died at age 44 after fighting similar demons. That business will suck the life right out of you.

I disagree. Paul McCartney and Elton John are still around. Mozart may have died young, but Haydn lived into his 70s - like Jagger.

----

I reckon that some people, regardless of vocation, talent or wealth, make bad choices.

IMHO, Leftists (and those on the Right) should give greater thought to this question.

Edited February 14, 2012 by August1991

[capricorn]

That business will suck the life right out of you.

Totally. When I hear other celebs say they are "shocked" or "devastated" when one of their peers flames out early due to excesses of one type or another, I shake my head. I think if truth be told, they generally expect it. Me, I suppose I'm somewhat cold hearted cause I think to myself "who's next?".

[capricorn]

IMHO, Leftists (and those on the Right) should give greater thought to this question.

What question?

[August1991]

What question?

Why some people make bad choices in life.

[eyeball]

To be honest, I (naively) figured that Whitney Houston would get out of her addiction. She had the means/money, and the potential of her talent. I was truly waiting for the next album.

When it comes to addictions or bad choices in life, some people simply can't manage. And let this be a lesson to Leftists: money is not always the solution.

Oh noes...success isn't all it's cracked up to be?

When Leftists argue that governments must spend more to help drug addicts, then those on the Right should point to Whitney Houston (and others) who died despite all their money, and efforts to make them change.

When Righties argue the government must spend more to punish those who addict druggies, this lefty will be pointing to government run liquor stores and government tobacco licenses and all that these drugs killed and poisoned in spite of the Right's high falutin' yackity-yack.

Sometimes more money makes life better. But too often - money aside - people simply make bad choices. Leftists should think about this.

Thhhhpppbbbttt....

So far as we know every drug associated with WH's death has been perfectly legal, moral, and ethical - booze, tobaccy and Big Pharma's chemical cocktails.

I don't know about government sanctioned US dope producers but here in Canada, as you know, our's are often granted Coats of Arms from the Crown - like badges of honour or the status of knighthood for corporations. They're almost next to godliness they're so righteous.

Edited February 14, 2012 by eyeball

[kimmy]

So far as we know every drug associated with WH's death has been perfectly legal, moral, and ethical - booze, tobaccy and Big Pharma's chemical cocktails.

Actually I'm pretty sure she confessed illegal drug use to Oprah during an interview. I think that's neither here nor there. People with enough money have access to whatever they want, be it legal or not. And people seem to destroy their lives equally well with legal drugs or illegal drugs. That hockey player last summer died from legal painkillers his brother got him, didn't he?

To me the big question is why so many of the rich and famous seem to get into this sort of trouble.

-k

[August1991]

To me the big question is why so many of the rich and famous seem to get into this sort of trouble.

Big question? Rich and famous? To me, the poor and unknown seem to get into this sort of trouble too.

Maybe we should wonder, Left and Right, why some people - whether rich, poor, famous, unknown - sometimes make bad choices.

Edited February 14, 2012 by August1991

[DogOnPorch]

Sorry, IMHO, Whitney has a far, far better version than Dolly Parton.

Dolly's wasn't a "version". T'was the original. Folks who like regular ol' Dolly like her for her simplicity. Not her arena filling pipes. Dolly did 'Okie Dokie' Whitney's version, of course.

Edited February 14, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

Actually I'm pretty sure she confessed illegal drug use to Oprah during an interview. I think that's neither here nor there. People with enough money have access to whatever they want, be it legal or not. And people seem to destroy their lives equally well with legal drugs or illegal drugs. That hockey player last summer died from legal painkillers his brother got him, didn't he?

To me the big question is why so many of the rich and famous seem to get into this sort of trouble.

-k

My guess is that stars burn out faster - success is not all its cracked up to be because of the pressure it places on individuals. A better question might be to ask; is the rate at which stars get into this sort of trouble greater than it is for the rest of the population? Should success be added to the list of risk factors for addiction or would that pile on even more pressure?

Society, or it's moral entrepreneurs at least are always on the hunt it seems for both role models and bad examples. The expectations of others are at the heart of many an addiction, which strikes at the base of people's self esteem.

[capricorn]

My guess is that stars burn out faster - success is not all its cracked up to be because of the pressure it places on individuals....The expectations of others are at the heart of many an addiction, which strikes at the base of people's self esteem.

Lionel Richie's comments are in line with your thoughts.

"What would be your identity if your identity was your voice and you don't have the identity that you had 10 years ago? What an amazing psychological pressure that could be on top of you. To be excellent every night. To be excellent every time you perform on record is devastating. ... If a young singer just came along that could be the next you, can you imagine how that sounds in your head if you're an artist?

"Can you imagine someone saying, 'You don't have to hit the notes that you used to hit; we'll take it down a half step for you'? Or, 'We'll take it down a whole step for you'?

"As much as it sounds accommodating, it's not exactly what a vocalist wants to hear -- especially when you have the 'next' version of you sitting there in the audience hitting notes higher than you ever hit the first time in your life. I understand it."

http://www.buffalonews.com/entertainment/columns/jeff-simon/article730854.ece

Richie also made the point that not only are you in competition with your peers but you continually push yourself to give better and better performances.

[guyser]

I disagree. Paul McCartney and Elton John are still around.

So is Keith Richards, but he isn't really alive , the alcohol is merely preserving him.

[cybercoma]

Beautiful woman, beautiful voice, terrible waste.

There should be a special part of hell reserved for obnoxious assholes who get pretty young girls into drugs and destroy them.

I tend to agree with you, without the gendered bias. Correct me if I'm wrong though, you're not typically of the opinion that drug abuse is an "illness" that is difficult if not impossible to control by the user once they've succumbed to it. I thought that you were of the opinion that it is their choice to do drugs and that "junkies" should pull up their bootstraps and clean themselves up. When you attribute Whitney's downfall to Bobby Brown, this would imply that a person, at least once they are addicted, are unable to help themselves and actually suffer from an "illness" that is at the very least mental. I might be wrong about your position on these issues though. So, please don't take this as snark.

[cybercoma]

Actually I'm pretty sure she confessed illegal drug use to Oprah during an interview. I think that's neither here nor there. People with enough money have access to whatever they want, be it legal or not. And people seem to destroy their lives equally well with legal drugs or illegal drugs. That hockey player last summer died from legal painkillers his brother got him, didn't he?

To me the big question is why so many of the rich and famous seem to get into this sort of trouble.

-k

I think it comes down to the Durkheimian structuralist argument that the rich and famous with enough money to have and do whatever they want lack a certain element of social regulation in their lives. It's hard to make any sort of distinction about this on an individual-by-individual basis. If you look at these celebrities as a social group, however, I believe it's clear that the incidence of suicide and drug-abuse are related and it harkens back to Durkheim's arguments. It may seem to be wonderful to be a celebrity. Once you have that kind of success and have accomplished your life's goals, however, you enter this odd social space where you no longer have goals or even restrictions on what you can do (thanks to financial freedom). It throws life out of balance. This can lead to a certain sense of aimlessness or detachment from any sort of higher purpose. Again, it's tough to say this on an individual-by-individual basis, but I believe this certainly applies to celebrities as a group, making it far more likely that they would have a higher suicide rate as opposed to non-celebrities in general. On the positive side of this phenomena, it probably does encourage celebrities to be more involved in charitable causes. Their financial abilities aside, it's a way of reconnecting them with structure, regulation, goals, and a higher purpose in society.

Edited February 14, 2012 by cybercoma

[Guest Manny]

Way I see it, it's a tragedy yes but it's a tragedy that happens every day to people who are anonymous. Thousands of people die each year fro drug addiction, or other problems that lead to self destruction including suicide. I always find it peculiar that so many people have so much to say when it's a celebrity who dies this way. But if there is any good in this, it's that it brings the issue to our attention.

Tony Bennett makes a good point, in some ways prohibition contributed to her death, since addicts are treated as criminals not as people with mental/physical affliction that need some kind of help. Those same people will tend to hide the fact they have a problem because they are at risk of being incarcerated and ostracized by society.

[bush_cheney2004]

Way I see it, it's a tragedy yes but it's a tragedy that happens every day to people who are anonymous. Thousands of people die each year fro drug addiction, or other problems that lead to self destruction including suicide.

Agreed...it is silly to infer that "celebs" are more prone to suicide given the number of suicides worldwide across a broad spectrum of economic and social strata. Dogs don't commit suicide.

[DogOnPorch]

Dogs don't commit suicide.

There was that one bridge dogs kept jumping off of. Folks were saying doggy suicide. Turned out it was other reasons...minks.

[bush_cheney2004]

There was that one bridge dogs kept jumping off of. Folks were saying doggy suicide. Turned out it was other reasons...minks.

Good story...and it demonstrates that if dogs so wanted, they could readily commit suicide. But they don't.

Maybe the suicide rate is lower for people with dogs.

[DogOnPorch]

Good story...and it demonstrates that if dogs so wanted, they could readily commit suicide. But they don't.

Maybe the suicide rate is lower for people with dogs.

Dunno...perhaps a few Scots ended up going over the edge after McFido?

[DogOnPorch]

Then there's this well known case w/ Paris Hilton:

[bush_cheney2004]

..and of course there was this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgjyhKN_35g

[DogOnPorch]

Dogs are pretty awesome at times. Case in point above.

[jbg]

Lionel Richie's comments are in line with your thoughts.

http://www.buffalonews.com/entertainment/columns/jeff-simon/article730854.ece

Richie also made the point that not only are you in competition with your peers but you continually push yourself to give better and better performances.

I agree with Richie's thoughts. "He always gets me to dance on the ceiling.

[August1991]

To me the big question is why so many of the rich and famous seem to get into this sort of trouble.

The poor and unknown seem to get into this trouble too.

Maybe we, on the Left and Right, should wonder why some people make bad choices.

When Righties argue the government must spend more to punish those who addict druggies, this lefty will be pointing to government run liquor stores and government tobacco licenses and all that these drugs killed and poisoned in spite of the Right's high falutin' yackity-yack.

More money may help some people make better decisions, but not always.

But eyeball, I question whether giving more money to government bureaucrats will help anyone at all.

[August1991]

Dolly's wasn't a "version". T'was the original.

As I posted above in a youtube link.

But Huston's cover version was better. It happens.

I think it comes down to the Durkheimian structuralist argument that the rich and famous with enough money to have and do whatever they want lack a certain element of social regulation in their lives.

I think Lutherans/Protestants feel that the rich should not show success.

Whatever.

[eyeball]

But eyeball, I question whether giving more money to government bureaucrats will help anyone at all.

Wonderful. Where did you ever get the notion I don't question this too?