Zbig: Israelis “bought influence” and outmaneuvered Obama

[Charles Anthony]

Everybody,

Stop the personal attacks. Anybody who continues to post personal attacks or flame-baiting or insutls or any trolling is liable to be suspended without warning.

If somebody violates the forum rules, do not respond in kind.

Ch. A.

[Guest Peeves]

Everybody,

Stop the personal attacks. Anybody who continues to post personal attacks or flame-baiting or insutls or any trolling is liable to be suspended without warning.

If somebody violates the forum rules, do not respond in kind.

Ch. A.

I'll drink to that.

So attested:

Signature ...Peeves

[bud]

see? neither of you want to admit the truth.

Because, when someone complains that the Jews control the government...

i didn't say anything about jews controlling the government. like i've said before, it's ridiculous to blame 'jews'. there are so many different types of jews out there with different opinions and ideologies, just like there are so many different types of christians and muslims.

this is about an ideology and a movement that drives people to do or condone immoral and illegal things. i may be against wahabism and other extremist movements and ideologies that some muslims follow, but it doesn't mean that i'm anti-islam.

my comments about money being used by zionists to influence america's foreign policy is a matter of fact with plenty of evidence to support it. you can't deny this fact without denying the truth.

[DogOnPorch]

see? neither of you want to admit the truth.

i didn't say anything about jews controlling the government. like i've said before, it's ridiculous to blame 'jews'. there are so many different types of jews out there with different opinions and ideologies, just like there are so many different types of christians and muslims.

this is about an ideology and a movement that drives people to do or condone immoral and illegal things. i may be against wahabism and other extremist movements and ideologies that some muslims follow, but it doesn't mean that i'm anti-islam.

my comments about money being used by zionists to influence america's foreign policy is a matter of fact with plenty of evidence to support it. you can't deny this fact without denying the truth.

All the tea and bankers in China won't change your stripes...buddddddy.

[Rue]

Some of us have wised up and know better than

to respond to Bud whose political agenda on this

forum is to bash Israel.

Now as for Zbignew Brezinski his being anti Israel

is no secret. This is a man who called for shooting

down of Israeli aircraft by the US if they proceeded

to attack Iran.

What has many people and not just Jews upset with

Brezinski is his statement that AIPAC is too strong

a lobby. It is here his comments crossed over from merely

being anti Israel to anti semitic, i.e., raising negative

stereotypes about all Jews to raise resenment against them.

He has chosen to repeatedly raise the ancient anti-semitic

canard that Jews control the congress and he repeatedly states

the American Jewish lobby AIPAC is too strong.

So why is this anti-semitic? Because of two reasons.

Firstly he has never singled out any other lobby group as being

too powerful just this one. That selective process is discriminatory

and renders his claim lacking in credibility. To suggest AIPAC is not

too strong but not mention for example the size and extent of influence

of other national lobbies like the U.K., China, Taiwan or South Korea

is insincere.

It is also absolute tripe since it is a fact the most powerful lobbying

groups influencing US foreign policy are those representing the

military industrial complex which Brezinski is in bed with and represents

openly.

Secondly and more importantly do you think any of you will

ever hear Brezinski complain over the fact that Barack Obama received

78 percent of the American Jewish vote last election which was 25 percent

greater than Obama’s percentage of total support nationally?

Well?

Of course not and therein lies the viciousness of Brezinski's anti

semitic ran. When Jews vote for Obama no one complains...but if

heaven forbid they also are concerned about Israel's security, presto

then and only then are they too influential.

Why are they not too powerful getting Obama his vote and only too

powerful when it comes to Israel?

That is what made Brezinski's comment anti-semitic.

So the Buds of the world can come on this forum playing their

absurd pathetic games of who me an anti-semite but most of us

know a bigot when we see one.

To be precise the fact Brezinski is blatantly anti Israel does not

in itself make him an anti-semite. The fact he chose to single

American Jews out and make the subjective statement with no basis

of fact they are too powerful is what lowered him to engaging in

anti semitic stereotyping and yes he should be called out for it

and Obama has a moral obligation to ask himself how is it he permits

such accusations against the very people that so strongly supported him?

Which one is it? Are Jews only too powerful if they do not suit Obama's

purpose. Is that it. Jews must know their place Zbignew?

Jews can vote for Obama but better not agree with AIPAC? Is that how

it works?

How about non Jews. How is it Zbignew makes no comment of the non Jews

who support AIPAC and Israel and only Jews? Why? In fact in the U.S.

it is the grass roots support of Israel by non Jewish Americans not

Jewish Americans that gives them their support. But of course in Zbignew's

world we only single out Jews who support Israel, no one else.

This coming from the same man who helped the Chinese build one of the most

influential lobbies in Washington and openly represented the views of

military suppliers and Saudi Arabia.

This is the same Zbignew Brezinski who said the US should negotiate with Hamas and said Israel over-reactedto missiles being shot at it by Hamas and should not have defended itself and is also on record as defending Yasir Arafat's tearing up of the Oslo accord.

Right.

I agree the fact Brezinksi is anti Israeli in itself does not make him an anti-semite.

His choosing to stereotype Jews of America as being too powerful in congress was.

That is the difference.

What makes Zbigniew Brzezinski an insincere Jew baiting bully is while he constantly repeats that Washington's ties to Israel are the cause of is foreign-policy problems he of course remains silent as to Rob Malley, Obama's adviser and staunch advocate for Palestinians. Does he suggest because Smalley is Syrian American Syrians control Washington?

The bottom line is Obama can't have it both ways. He can't expect Jews to remain Democrats and support his domestic financial policies which they do but then on the other hand sit

silent while Brezinski labels them all as too powerful Israel cult followers.

Brezkinski can take his anti semitic stereotypes of American Jews and shove them up

his cold war butt.

No Jew should have to apologize for being pro Israeli in the US to Brezinski or anyone else.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Rue

[bud]

why do you guys struggle so much with admitting the truth?

AIPAC listed 2nd most powerful group on Fortune list

AIPAC - along with the Association of Trial Lawyers and the American Medical Association -owes its high ranking in part to its "substantial campaign contributions."

reality

AIPAC's influence is in u.s. foreign policy. look at the pathetic display at u.s. congress when bibi came for a visit. bibi could have passed gas and the pathetic congress would have jumped to their feet clapping for bibi.

then we have sheldon adelson, an ardent zionist and the 16th richest man in the world giving millions to newt gingrich, through super pacs. they spent millions in south carolina on advertising. you think gingrich would have called palestinians 'an invented people' if he wasn't looking for cash from adelson?

[DogOnPorch]

Gosh no, the al-Husseini clan turned nation state isn't invented. The whole idea was to be different than the Hashemites and be the keepers of Al-Aqsa...that much nearer my God than thee. T'was the Mufti afterall taking the donations to rebuild the Temple Mount (and pocketing the leftovers). Remember, as well, the Mufti had King Abdullah clipped for seeking peace w/ Israel. That's not seeing eye-to-eye at all, is it?

[bud]

more on the influence:

Just how far can Adelson influence Gingrich's campaign?

The right-wing multi-billionaire and his wife have donated $10 million toward the Republican's efforts to secure the party nomination; but can one man’s predilections and attitudes — his worldview — have an effect on an entire election?

One of Adelson’s passions — and a reason for his desire to play such a big role in American politics — is undoubtedly Israel. And his positions are unambiguously right-wing and hawkish to the extreme. When it comes to the Palestinians, there is no one to be trusted.

What does it mean to have someone with these views have such an outsized influence on a candidate and the race he is in?

link

[bush_cheney2004]

.... When it comes to the Palestinians, there is no one to be trusted.

Yes, that's why a Palestinian assassinated RFK.

What does it mean to have someone with these views have such an outsized influence on a candidate and the race he is in?[/b]

It means he can...any questions?

[bud]

Yes, that's why a Palestinian assassinated RFK.

the christian arab? yeah.

then in your view, israelis can't be trusted because they assassinate everyone, including the murder of their own prime minister by a rabid zionist.

It means he can...any questions?

it's interesting how israel itself has laws against such foreign influence.

no one says he can or he cannot. but what if your government is lobbied into changing their policies which may harm americans in favour of support for a foreign country? you still don't have a problem with that? will you be as passive and numb if it was a chinese mogul spending millions in order to influence american policies towards china?

just how much financial influence do pro-israelis have over political groups?

Richard Cohen, a columnist for the Washington Post, updated those figures in 2006 citing figures of 60% and 35% respectively for the Democratic and Republican Parties. According to the Washington Post, Democratic presidential candidates depend on Jewish sources for 60% of money from private sources.

what if rich arab states or pro-chinese groups start pumping that kind of money into american politics to influence their policies? would we be seeing the same passiveness from the so-called american patriots like bc2004?

[bush_cheney2004]

the christian arab? yeah.

then in your view, israelis can't be trusted because they assassinate everyone, including the murder of their own prime minister by a rabid zionist.

No...in my view, it means Palestinians with hand guns, Katyusha rockets, and suicide vests can't be trusted around Kennedys

it's interesting how israel itself has laws against such foreign influence.

AIPAC is an American lobby.

no one says he can or he cannot. but what if your government is lobbied into changing their policies which may harm americans in favour of support for a foreign country? you still don't have a problem with that? will you be as passive and numb if it was a chinese mogul spending millions in order to influence american policies towards china?

Yes....Canada does it too. Should I be worried, or does this paranoia only apply when Israelis / Jews are involved?

just how much financial influence do pro-israelis have over political groups?

As much as they can afford.

what if rich arab states or pro-chinese groups start pumping that kind of money into american politics to influence their policies? would we be seeing the same passiveness from the so-called american patriots like bc2004?

Sorry, but you'll have to win your crusade against Israel just from Vancouver. The Americans will do as they damn well please, and that means supporting Israel. Ironically, why should this or any American listen to your "foreign influence"?

Edited January 30, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

Sorry, but you'll have to win your crusade against Israel just from Vancouver. The Americans will do as they damn well please, and that means supporting Israel. Ironically, why should this or any American listen to your "foreign influence"?

Well the foreign influence that the USA IS listening to is a little spot in the Middle East called Israel. The USA is essentially Israel's lapdog to do their bidding.

[bud]

No...in my view, it means Palestinians with hand guns, Katyusha rockets, and suicide vests can't be trusted around Kennedys

a rabid zionist killed the israeli prime minister.

AIPAC is an American lobby.

reality check.

an american lobby working for the interest of a foreign country and in many cases at the expense of america and american lives.

Yes....Canada does it too. Should I be worried, or does this paranoia only apply when Israelis / Jews are involved?

softwood lumber lobbying is not going to involve taking american soldiers overseas and getting them killed.

The Americans will do as they damn well please,

the americans will do as they're told through mass marketing. that's how it works. stand up and be proud yankee.

[bush_cheney2004]

a rabid zionist killed the israeli prime minister.

Guess who shot Lincoln?

an american lobby working for the interest of a foreign country and in many cases at the expense of america and american lives.

Yep, and it drive you nuts to know that real live 'Merkins are proud members and supporters. It's our country and we'll run it how we please if you don't mind....wait...even if you do mind.

softwood lumber lobbying is not going to involve taking american soldiers overseas and getting them killed.

American soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines can do that without Israel's influence. I think we started the tradition by raging against your monarchy.

the americans will do as they're told through mass marketing. that's how it works. stand up and be proud yankee.

We are....and there is nothing you can do about it by whining about "Jews" from Vancouver. If you want the US to stop....make us.

[bud]

Guess who shot Lincoln?

not a muslim?

Yep, and it drive you nuts to know that real live 'Merkins are proud members and supporters. It's our country and we'll run it how we please if you don't mind....wait...even if you do mind.

good thing that there is a diversity of thoughts in america. good thing you don't really represent the majority of americans as majority support foreign aid cut, including aid to israel. the support for cutting aid is 59% as opposed to 37% who favour continuing foreign aid.

so who is congress representing? americans or foreign countries?

American soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines can do that without Israel's influence. I think we started the tradition by raging against your monarchy.

lets get back to modern times, old man; the iraq war was pushed by the israeli lobby and supported by congress who is heavily lobbied ($) by the israeli lobby. a war based on lies and deception that ended up killing thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands of iraqis.

We are....and there is nothing you can do about it by whining about "Jews" from Vancouver. If you want the US to stop....make us.

you're so proud of your shortcomings. cute.

[bush_cheney2004]

not a muslim?

maybe Canadian too ?

including aid to israel. the support for cutting aid is 59% as opposed to 37% who favour continuing foreign aid.

Cutting aid is not the same as eliminating aid. Israel will still get plenty.

so who is congress representing? americans or foreign countries?

Not you for sure. Why are you so concerned ? The USA is a "foreign" country.

lets get back to modern times, old man; the iraq war was pushed by the israeli lobby and supported by congress who is heavily lobbied ($) by the israeli lobby. a war based on lies and deception that ended up killing thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands of iraqis.

Tell us something that is relevant....opinions from Vancouver are not.

you're so proud of your shortcomings. cute.

I'm proud of it all....'cause it's all good. Go AIPAC !!

[bud]

maybe Canadian too ?

Cutting aid is not the same as eliminating aid. Israel will still get plenty.

oh you're right. israel will get plenty. they (the anti-israeli obama) just renewed the $3 billion/year in aid to a country who is part of OECD. there is pressure to cut social programs for the american people while israel is receiving welfare cheques from the u.s. government.

the so-called conservatives who are okay with this scheme sure are backwards.

Not you for sure. Why are you so concerned ? The USA is a "foreign" country.

u.s. foreign policy effects the world. besides, i enjoy pointing out how your tax money goes towards paying other countries when your country is going bankrupt. it's fun pointing out how your government is not working for you, but working for foreign interest groups.

Tell us something that is relevant....opinions from Vancouver are not.

I'm proud of it all....'cause it's all good. Go AIPAC !!

so instead of engaging in a conversation with a person who points out israel's strong influence over u.s. politics, those in denial will either scream anti-semite or put fingers in ears and say it's not your business.

Edited January 30, 2012 by bud

[bush_cheney2004]

the so-called conservatives who are okay with this scheme sure are backwards.

If it bugs you, it must be the "right" move.

u.s. foreign policy effects the world. besides, i enjoy pointing out how your tax money goes towards paying other countries when your country is going bankrupt. it's fun pointing out how your government is not working for you, but working for foreign interest groups.

But you see, I am not Canadian, with grand expectations of cradle to grave government support. The US remains a "foreign country", out of your reach. If we shouldn't listen to Israel, why listen to you?

so instead of engaging in a conversation with a person who points out israel's strong influence over u.s. politics, those in denial will either scream anti-semite or put fingers in ears and say it's not your business.

Well,in this case, both are true. It's grand fun talking smack with the anti-Israeli, Jew baiting know-it-alls from Canada, who want to "influence" my country's policies all the same.

[bud]

If it bugs you, it must be the "right" move.

But you see, I am not Canadian, with grand expectations of cradle to grave government support. The US remains a "foreign country", out of your reach. If we shouldn't listen to Israel, why listen to you?

Well,in this case, both are true. It's grand fun talking smack with the anti-Israeli, Jew baiting know-it-alls from Canada, who want to "influence" my country's policies all the same.

for a guy who gets so hot and bothered from comments about your country that is coming from someone who isn't american, it's quite funny seeing you embracing the foreign influence on your government.

[bush_cheney2004]

for a guy who gets so hot and bothered from comments about your country that is coming from someone who isn't american, it's quite funny seeing you embracing the foreign influence on your government.

America was built with "foreign influence" and emigres, and is now the most powerful country in the entire solar system. Many good things come from Israel, and the relationship has yielded more benefits than problems. Canada has no such relationships (I wonder why?).

Look, we get it, you don't like Israel/Jews...no way, no how, but you're going to have to go through us to destroy their nation.

[GostHacked]

America was built with "foreign influence" and emigres, and is now the most powerful country in the entire solar system. Many good things come from Israel, and the relationship has yielded more benefits than problems. Canada has no such relationships (I wonder why?).

Look, we get it, you don't like Israel/Jews...no way, no how, but you're going to have to go through us to destroy their nation.

Is America willing to completely sacrifice herself for Israel?

[bud]

Look, we get it, you don't like Israel/Jews...

you obviously don't get it. because my dislike is for any policy from any country that creates injustice. kind of like israel's policy on palestinians and america's "bought" support for it.

no way, no how, but you're going to have to go through us to destroy their nation.

you sound like an ignorant evangelical who has been brainwashed into thinking that support for israel's policy helps americans when in fact, it doesn't.

[bush_cheney2004]

you obviously don't get it. because my dislike is for any policy from any country that creates injustice. kind of like israel's policy on palestinians and america's "bought" support for it.

Then you should be boycotting the United States and Canada. Good luck with that injustice thing for Palestine, I will let Africa and Asia know you have that angle covered from Vancouver. Maybe if Africa had more Jews?

you sound like an ignorant evangelical who has been brainwashed into thinking that support for israel's policy helps americans when in fact, it doesn't.

You have no frickin' idea what you are talking about, and come off as some righteous Googling poser from Vancouver. Have you ever been to Israel? Does Israel have an army in Afghanistan or Libya killing the locals? Nope.

Edited January 30, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[bud]

Then you should be boycotting the United States and Canada. Good luck with that injustice thing for Palestine, I will let Africa and Asia know you have that angle covered from Vancouver. Maybe if Africa had more Jews?

you still don't get it.

why do you get so hot and bothered when u.s. is criticized? no need to take it so personally.

You have no frickin' idea what you are talking about, and come off as some righteous Googling poser from Vancouver. Have you ever been to Israel? Does Israel have an army in Afghanistan or Libya killing the locals? Nope.

reality and google say that american support for israel increases threats on americanssts. what kind of an american patriot are you to pick israel over your own country? not a very good one it looks like.

[bush_cheney2004]

you still don't get it.

why do you get so hot and bothered when u.s. is criticized? no need to take it so personally.

It's not personal for me....anybody can log on here and rant high and low about the evils of Israel and "US support", then they will drive across the border for cheap gas and cigarettes. What makes the righteous in Canada so comfortable with such obvious cognitive dissonance? Boycott the evil empire!

reality and google say that american support for israel increases threats on americanssts. what kind of an american patriot are you to pick israel over your own country? not a very good one it looks like.

That kind of laughable schtick won't work...Americans don't cower at the first sign of conflict like you....we thrive on it. Try as you might, you are still going to have to deal with the Big Dog that has Israel's back, just like it has Canada's back. Go fix your own PalestIndian problems first.

Edited January 30, 2012 by bush_cheney2004