The Dog Debate

[Boges]

I've always wanted to have a lively debate about dogs on a messageboard.

If you watch recent documentaries about dogs you'd find out that making pedigrees and standards for dogs have done them a great disservice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZNVewvFm4M

Dogs like Pugs, French/English Bulldogs, Boxers, Basset Hounds, Rodesian Ridgebacks, Cavalier King Charles Spanial, Pekanese, Chiauhas, etc etc are all bred for a certain look, the dog's health be damned.

I own a designer dog, Poodle and Cocker Spanial cross. I seeked out this dog on purpose because I didn't want a dog that shed and I didn't want a dog that was genetically inbred to the point of just being a walking vet bill.

People who pay multiple thousand dollars for a pedigree french bulldog or a pug are mentally deranged.

I personally welcome the trend towards mutts and designer dogs, I believe dog health in the future will benefit from it.

Thoughts on the Pedigree debate?

[Hydraboss]

I've always had pretty strong opinions on animals. Dogs in particular. Over the years I've had Dobermans, an African Ridgeback (Rhodesian), a Dauchaund (weiner dog), and (the best of all) a Border Collie with a small touch of Chow in her. All good dogs and none of them "designer".

A year and a half ago, after my Border died at 13, I decided I wanted another Dobie. Went looking for a breeder that fit the bill - and found him. My male Dobie has the "King" gene in both sides of his family and that means he'll weigh in around 120lbs when filled out. He's just now starting to and weighs about 90lbs. Great dog, but what a pain in the ass (faaaarrrrr too intelligent to be just an animal). People don't realize the medical issues they're getting when they buy a "purebred" or a "designer dog". Any large breed that grows too fast can be a target for hip dysplasia. Other breeds has different problems. If it's not done right, the breeder can inadvertently cause "inbreeding" even though mom and dad don't appear related.

Mutts are the most stable "breed" of dog there is for people who don't know the requirements of an animal. The ones I can't stand are when people want someone to special breed an animal "so it won't bark" or something just as asinine. Dogs bark. They also shed. Some breeds perhaps less, but that is a biological fact. Don't want either? Get a fish.

[Boges]

I've always had pretty strong opinions on animals. Dogs in particular. Over the years I've had Dobermans, an African Ridgeback (Rhodesian), a Dauchaund (weiner dog), and (the best of all) a Border Collie with a small touch of Chow in her. All good dogs and none of them "designer".

A year and a half ago, after my Border died at 13, I decided I wanted another Dobie. Went looking for a breeder that fit the bill - and found him. My male Dobie has the "King" gene in both sides of his family and that means he'll weigh in around 120lbs when filled out. He's just now starting to and weighs about 90lbs. Great dog, but what a pain in the ass (faaaarrrrr too intelligent to be just an animal). People don't realize the medical issues they're getting when they buy a "purebred" or a "designer dog". Any large breed that grows too fast can be a target for hip dysplasia. Other breeds has different problems. If it's not done right, the breeder can inadvertently cause "inbreeding" even though mom and dad don't appear related.

Mutts are the most stable "breed" of dog there is for people who don't know the requirements of an animal. The ones I can't stand are when people want someone to special breed an animal "so it won't bark" or something just as asinine. Dogs bark. They also shed. Some breeds perhaps less, but that is a biological fact. Don't want either? Get a fish.

What's wrong with wanting a dog that doesn't shed? Poodles don't shed. They are the second most intelligent dog. Why do you think just about every breed of dog gets cross-bred with them.

Designer Dogs are mutts. They're mutts that have a standard in mind without having to inbred. Then again some in the Cockapoo community want a Cockapoo to be a breed.

[Hydraboss]

You misunderstand me. Some breeds don't shed (much) and that can be a major plus for some owners. What I was trying to get to was the fact that some people want a particular breed to be changed so it doesn't shed - for example, trying to make a Border Collie so it doesn't shed would be basically impossible (after a week, I could have stuffed a pillow with the fur she lost in our house). A poodle is a great example of this, a German Shepard is not.

There are different breeds, and people should just pick one. I get pretty riled when I hear of someone trying to cross-breed two dogs that will likely be incompatible (mini-Dobermans are one that pisses me right off). A mini Pinscher has been around for hundreds of years, and Dobermans a little less. Then some genius tries to cross a Doberman with a mini-Pin - this is not compatible. Neither would a Great Dane and a poodle. But some people never learn.

[Boges]

You misunderstand me. Some breeds don't shed (much) and that can be a major plus for some owners. What I was trying to get to was the fact that some people want a particular breed to be changed so it doesn't shed - for example, trying to make a Border Collie so it doesn't shed would be basically impossible (after a week, I could have stuffed a pillow with the fur she lost in our house). A poodle is a great example of this, a German Shepard is not.

There are different breeds, and people should just pick one. I get pretty riled when I hear of someone trying to cross-breed two dogs that will likely be incompatible (mini-Dobermans are one that pisses me right off). A mini Pinscher has been around for hundreds of years, and Dobermans a little less. Then some genius tries to cross a Doberman with a mini-Pin - this is not compatible. Neither would a Great Dane and a poodle. But some people never learn.

How do you really determine which breeds don't cross well with eachother?

I've seen Poodles crossed with Pugs, Yorkies, Maltese etc.

The most popular hybrid dogs are the Cockapoo, Goldiepoo, and Labradoodle. Taking popular dogs that do shed and crossing them with a smart dog that doesn't shed.

[sharkman]

So what about Shelties. They're not some sort of mutant dog, are they? Because one day I could see myself owning one, or maybe a Golden Retriever.

[eyeball]

It seems every dog, and cat, that I recall being owned by over the years just showed up suddenly and our lives became entwined by chance and circumstance. Other than a rabbit when I was four or something, I've never actually gone out and picked a pet. The most common trait I noticed, it didn't matter what type they were, was they all eventually broke my heart.

I'm in cat mode now and if do get another dog one day I'll probably adopt an older one from a shelter.

[DogOnPorch]

The good ones pick you.

[eyeball]

With my luck I'll probably never even make it to the shelter and I'll come across an abandoned pet along the way.

[sharkman]

We got this dog from the SPCA one time when I was a teen. The dog had issues. Whenever we left him alone for a few hours he'd have to start chewing or ripping things. Destroyed the arm of our couch quite effectively and several shoes. Also, he developed a taste for my underwear which then trained me not to leave it behind the door! Sadly we had to return him, as we couldn't get him to stop. I'd be careful on the shelter animals, sometimes they are damaged goods.

[eyeball]

I'd be careful on the shelter animals, sometimes they are damaged goods.

I guess some people pick pets from shelters for that very reason. Who knows maybe they were damaged a little along the way too.

[sharkman]

So there you have it, I suppose. If you can take into account the possible issues and still find it an option, more power to you.

[Boges]

I would never get adopt a dog. Too many variables I have no control over.

I'd rather have a dog I can train and create a pack with from Day One.

But I guess even puppies have baggage. When my dog is sleeping she occasionally wimpers as if she's being beaten or something. I can only assume she's having a nightmare.

[jbg]

I personally welcome the trend towards mutts and designer dogs, I believe dog health in the future will benefit from it.

Thoughts on the Pedigree debate?

I agree that mutts are usually better adjusted and healthier than pure-breds. Also they can have great dispositions. For example I had a close childhood friend that had a mix between a German Shepherd and Labrador Retriever. Despite the ferocious nature of both breeds (especially the Lab) it was extremely gentle.

[jbg]

I'd be careful on the shelter animals, sometimes they are damaged goods.

My father-in-law got numerous shelter dogs seriatum, and did well with all of them, even a dog that was mostly yellow lab, a notably vicious breed.

[Guest Peeves]

We have A Maltese by choice for years. Now have 2, one is a rescue. I paid a substantial amount for the one,and he was a registered dog. He should never have been bread by the parentage by his seller though,several faults like thyroid- epilepsy, cast in one eye, stomach problems etc. Of course they said bring him back, but after you get attached how can you? So he's on meds and monitored with tests.

The other is very healthy. They both get on great, and we cater to them, but it's expensive if you have one like we were 'stuck' with.

[Boges]

We have A Maltese by choice for years. Now have 2, one is a rescue. I paid a substantial amount for the one,and he was a registered dog. He should never have been bread by the parentage by his seller though,several faults like thyroid- epilepsy, cast in one eye, stomach problems etc. Of course they said bring him back, but after you get attached how can you? So he's on meds and monitored with tests.

The other is very healthy. They both get on great, and we cater to them, but it's expensive if you have one like we were 'stuck' with.

See this is the problem when you buy a pure-bred dog.

What type of mutations had to be bread into a dog to get them as small as a Matlese? Can they even give birth on their own?

[Moonlight Graham]

I have a robotic dog. It's great, it doesn't shed or pee or poop, and I've programmed it to only bark at people I don't like!

I have a close family member with pure-bred. It has a liver shunt problem.

Also, why haven't we bred dogs for domestic labour? I'd like a dog that can be easily trained to pull a lawnmower or vacuum cleaner or shovel by driveway. Ok i'm kidding, but i'm surprised some sick people haven't tried to do this more.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[jbg]

Also, why haven't we bred dogs for domestic labour? I'd like a dog that can be easily trained to pull a lawnmower or vacuum cleaner or shovel by driveway. Ok i'm kidding, but i'm surprised some sick people haven't tried to do this more.

There are, or used to be dogs in Canada that pulled sleds. Isn't that breeding for domestic labor? (spelling fixed)

Edited January 24, 2012 by jbg

[Peter F]

Dogs at work in the good ol days

[Yukon Jack]

Some bastards who should be culled from the human race, with great torture and extreme prejudice are the breeders of Rhodesian Ridgebacks, who kill all puppies in a litter that show any signs that that puppy will not have the fur on the back growing backwards, as it is required by breed standards.

If these sorry pieces of sub-human garbage had any decency and any trace of humanity or any amount of brains, they would develop a new breed, which they could call "Rhodesian Ridgeless".

I also have problems with breeders of German Shepperds, who are hell bent on developing the perfect dog, that will die of a ruptured spine prior to age 8 years. Or breeders of pugs whose life ambition is to develop dogs that can't breath.

[Boges]

Some bastards who should be culled from the human race, with great torture and extreme prejudice are the breeders of Rhodesian Ridgebacks, who kill all puppies in a litter that show any signs that that puppy will not have the fur on the back growing backwards, as it is required by breed standards.

If these sorry pieces of sub-human garbage had any decency and any trace of humanity or any amount of brains, they would develop a new breed, which they could call "Rhodesian Ridgeless".

Not only that but the ridge is a spinal deformity. I know people with ridgebacks, they a nice large breed of dog. The fact that they have to have this weird ridge is ridiculous.