The TTC thread

[Boges]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/08/08/ttc_wants_to_put_some_pop_in_your_streetcar_ride_with_alldoors_boarding_by_jan_1.html

The TTC has a radical plan to improve the commutes of the city’s 250,000 daily streetcar riders on all 11 routes all day — almost immediately.

TTC CEO Andy Byford wants to cut to the chase and allow riders to board through the back doors of all Toronto streetcars using an honour system for fare payments, similar to the one on GO Transit.

The proof-of-payment (POP) system would start Jan. 1, 2015, years ahead of the original plan, which was to gradually phase in POP as the 204 new streetcars come online through 2019.

Allowing customers to board through the rear door would speed the vehicle’s progress and reduce bunching and short-turns, said Byford, who is asking for TTC board approval later this month.

“We’ll make transit better and easier for you. The quid pro quo is you are expected to pay the fare,” he said.

There was a study released this week that blames the passengers and not traffic for service delays. It takes too long to get people on the bus/streetcars. So they'll just let people use the back of the bus without checking for POP.

GO has done this for as long as I've ever used it. You always fear the embarrassment of being asked for a ticket you didn't buy and the ticket that would ensue. I guess people that don't have moral issues with using transit without paying a ticket do it all the time. However that's for the trains where the GO stations are widen open. I've always wondered why GO doesn't have a gate system like a Subway station does, you can just walk on the platform and no one would even know if you have a ticket or not. GO Buses obviously require proof of payment because they are nice coach buses.

I guess it would be cheaper to have people randomly checking tickets than it would having two attendants on each bus. BUT!!! I can imagine everyone will now use the back door knowing you don't have to prove you paid slowing the streetcar down anyway. I've heard that a driver can't force a person to pay anyway as it might cause a conflict.

There are no real easy answers here. But I can't say this approach is the best one.

[Big Guy]

Perhaps we are headed for free ridership with tax money paying all the bills in Toronto.

I wonder how that would affect the ridership numbers and the traffic numbers.

[guyser]

There was a study released this week that blames the passengers and not traffic for service delays. It takes too long to get people on the bus/streetcars. So they'll just let people use the back of the bus without checking for POP.

Australia-both Sydney and Melbourne I used this, buy the transit credit card, load it up, swipe in any of the numerous 'swipe thingy's' upon boarding (or shortly after) and all is good.

Load thru any door.

Of course sometimes the sipe thing didnt work or I couldnt get it to work, so I figured if caught I could do the whole tourist thing...'what do I know?'

[Boges]

Australia-both Sydney and Melbourne I used this, buy the transit credit card, load it up, swipe in any of the numerous 'swipe thingy's' upon boarding (or shortly after) and all is good.

Load thru any door.

Of course sometimes the sipe thing didnt work or I couldnt get it to work, so I figured if caught I could do the whole tourist thing...'what do I know?'

For a Subway system it makes sense because you can swipe for access to the station. With a bus or streetcar it's hard to monitor such things. I guess have a swipe thing on the back door too. But Presto hasn't been fully adopted yet so what of people who want to pay with a ticket or even cash. (who pays for a bus using cash? Seriously!)

Again with GO, I imagine they give lots of free trips every day. But with regular users you're tempting fate if you don't choose to pay, the odds are you'll eventually get caught.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Boges

[Boges]

Perhaps we are headed for free ridership with tax money paying all the bills in Toronto.

I wonder how that would affect the ridership numbers and the traffic numbers.

The truth is that in the GTA the system is already at capacity. If everyone stopped driving their car tomorrow the system would be over-loaded.

It's said that the TTC has a lower subsidy than any major transit system in the world.

I know GO-Train is DAMN! expensive. It's only a reasonable alternative for someone that's going downtown from the suburbs daily.

[Black Dog]

The truth is that in the GTA the system is already at capacity. If everyone stopped driving their car tomorrow the system would be over-loaded.

It is overloaded at this point. This is a sobering (if wonkish) read on the state of the system. It's...not good.

We bought the myth that transit spending could be cut, and we weren’t watching when critical decisions traded away the capacity for future growth.

Any new mayor, any new TTC Commissioner, should demand full information from TTC management about the state of the system and the options for making improvements now. The request should be without condition, no “can you get by with $100m”, but an open ended request for honest, forthright advice and policies that can rebuild the transit system.

Any new mayor, any new Council, should be prepared to dig deep to properly fund the restoration and improvement of the TTC network — all of it, not just a handful of pet subway lines whose primary function is to get votes, not to carry riders.

Get ready for lots of crowded riding because there is little Toronto can do to avoid it.

[Boges]

Facepalm

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/04/16/driver-surplus-costs-ttc-95gs-a-week

TORONTO - The TTC has spent $1 million so far this year to send home around 85 bus drivers -- who never got behind the wheel--early each day.

The Toronto Sun has learned the TTC is grappling with a "temporarily large surplus of operators" that is costing $95,000 a week as roughly 85 drivers a day sit on its "spareboard" -- a group of drivers put on standby in case they're needed to take over bus routes.

The drivers wait for five hours and then get sent home with eight hours pay even though they don't actually operate any buses. After the Sun started asking about the issue, TTC officials issued transit commissioners a briefing note which explained the problem and stressed they hope to get it under control by the end of the year and are working to mitigate any losses.

What a job! Coming to work to sit around and go home after 5 hours, if you're not needed, but get paid for the day.

And people wonder why people hate the public service.

Imagine if schools did this? All the supply teachers show up at a central location in the morning and go to do a supply teacher job if they're needed if not, go home by noon and get paid for the day.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Boges

[Michael Hardner]

Facepalm

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/04/16/driver-surplus-costs-ttc-95gs-a-week

$1 million doesn't sound like much overall...

Byford explains it:

""If I were to do one of two things -- either not have enough operators or have too many -- I'd rather have the latter and manage it than be rightly castigated for not having enough operators.""

So, they're using the surplus drivers to achieve better service during peak times. Seems reasonable to me. The implication is that there's grossly bad planning going on but I don't think you can take that away from the article. Byford is doing a great job given what he has to work with.

[Boges]

$1 million doesn't sound like much overall...

Byford explains it:

""If I were to do one of two things -- either not have enough operators or have too many -- I'd rather have the latter and manage it than be rightly castigated for not having enough operators.""

So, they're using the surplus drivers to achieve better service during peak times. Seems reasonable to me. The implication is that there's grossly bad planning going on but I don't think you can take that away from the article. Byford is doing a great job given what he has to work with.

85 drivers though? What's wrong with having some people on casual or part-time contracts. Or is that just unacceptable in the civil service?

[Black Dog]

85 drivers though? What's wrong with having some people on casual or part-time contracts. Or is that just unacceptable in the civil service?

Facepalm

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/04/16/driver-surplus-costs-ttc-95gs-a-week

What a job! Coming to work to sit around and go home after 5 hours, if you're not needed, but get paid for the day.

And people wonder why people hate the public service.

Imagine if schools did this? All the supply teachers show up at a central location in the morning and go to do a supply teacher job if they're needed if not, go home by noon and get paid for the day.

Bit different. If a subway or streetcar breaks down, you need to move immediately, not try and track drivers down at home and hope they are available.

This is typical TorSun manufactured outrage over nothing.

[Michael Hardner]

85 drivers though? What's wrong with having some people on casual or part-time contracts. Or is that just unacceptable in the civil service?

85 is a hard number to guage without operating statistics. I'm sure the TTC would love to have some people on those bases but probably have to follow union rules.

[Boges]

I'm sure the TTC would love to have some people on those bases but probably have to follow union rules.

Exactly. It's less about good public service, more about protecting union jobs.

It's also why they drag their heels adopting the Presto Card system.

[bjre]

Sorry, posted to a wrong thread

If Canada can allow a team from China to build it, let them use design from China, workers from China. Subway can be built very fast.

Subway in Wuhan

Subway in Nanjing:

Subway in Shanghai:

Subway in Beijing:

Change of the Pudong district in Shanghai 20 years. from 1990 to 2010

http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2013/08/26-years-of-growth-shanghai-then-and-now/100569/

[Boges]

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/01/04/ttc-caps-near-beer-guzzling-by-staffers

Quote

 

TORONTO - If it looks like a beer, and it smells like a beer, TTC staffers aren’t allowed to guzzle it on the job — even if there’s no alcohol in it.

TTC spokesman Brad Ross confirmed the transit authority has banned Budweiser’s Prohibition Beer and other near-beers.

“Products that imitate impairing substances can raise public concern if TTC employees are seen consuming such products,” Ross told the Toronto Sun in an email Wednesday. “These products, then, can give rise to investigations under the TTC’s fitness for duty policy, as they can smell and look like traditional alcohol beverages.”

The TTC won’t allow its safety reputation to be compromised by these types of products and the consumption by staff members can be considered a violation of the fitness for duty policy, he said.

 

Only in the public service would people think it's OK to do your job while drinking what appears to be an alcohol beverage. Why not have a liqour flask with Orange Juice. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Only in the public service ...

They are regularly told of their 'rights' and so 'entitled' is a very soft term for how they feel about what they do.  The Union can push back on this, but they probably were already consulted.

[The_Squid]

Toronto Sun has issue with union members not drinking alcohol...    faux outrage!!

[Smallc]

I don't see the issue here.

[Boges]

The only the TTC would have to make a statement telling people they couldn't drink Near Beer on the job means that there are TTC employees that think there's nothing wrong with doing it. 

Only in a Unionized Public Service environment would such a policy be needed. 

[Smallc]

Near beer - is that like the opposite of legitimate rape? 

[Boges]

Non-Alcoholic Beer. 

[The_Squid]

So it tastes like beer...  smells like beer...   but won't get you drunk like beer?    Red Bull is ok though, right?   What about water?   It's like vodka minus the alcohol...

[Smallc]

23 minutes ago, Boges said:

Non-Alcoholic Beer. 

Can I drink a non alcoholic Rockstar?  Or is that not okay?

[Boges]

I think it's the optics of drinking something that's made to look like Alcohol where you're dealing with the public.

Common Sense really. 

If you want to drink on the job why just put Vodka in a Water Bottle like a pro.  

Edited January 6, 2017 by Boges

[The_Squid]

17 minutes ago, Boges said:

I think it's the optics of drinking something that's made to look like Alcohol where you're dealing with the public.

Common Sense really. 

If you want to drink on the job why just put Vodka in a Water Bottle like a pro.  

But I thought you said it was non-alcoholized beer....   so do they really want to drink at work?  Or do they want to not drink at work?   You seem to be confused about this...

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, The_Squid said:

But I thought you said it was non-alcoholized beer....   so do they really want to drink at work?  Or do they want to not drink at work?   You seem to be confused about this...

Who knows why they want to do it. But it appears some do. The Average rider won't be able to distinguish the difference between near beer and the real stuff. 

The optics are bad and the fact that a Union has to be told that the optics are bad speaks volumes about how public sector Unions operate.