Hey let's talk about the Leafs

Black Dog · February 24, 2015

Much of what we will see in the next months regarding Yakupov will be strictly facesaving by management. The persistent story locally is that it was Katz who made the call on him. The scouting staff wanted Ryan Murray.

Yes they would have looked much worse if they had picked a guy who has missed more games than he's played.

If they traded him now they'd get very little back. Their only hope of getting perhaps a second round pick is to hope he plays much better, and accepts a short bridge contract this summer. Worst case is they lose him for nothing at all, which is entirely possible. And a second rounder is pretty close to nothing for the first overall.

There's overvaluing players, valuing players correctly, undervaluing players, and then there's whatever this is. A joke.

Yeah, plus/minus. I don;t see it as an overly reliable stat when comparing between teams. It is not overly reliable when compared to the defensemen on your own team. But he is the worst forward on the team, again. Compounding this is that he rarely plays against the other teams best lines, and other teams don't play their best defenders against him either.

It's a junk stat for evaluating individuals because there's simply too many variables involved.

overthere · February 24, 2015

There's overvaluing players, valuing players correctly, undervaluing players, and then there's whatever this is. A joke.

And you fall hard into the "overvalue" camp on this one.

It's a junk stat for evaluating individuals because there's simply too many variables involved.

and which variable have I miscalculated with regard to this specific player? I have compared him only to the other forwards on the same team, nearly all of whom have tougher minutes. He's been coddled and babied from day one, and has failed in every challenge presented.

His value to this team is negligible, and nobody will want him anywhere(except the KHL) unless he is very, very cheap.

Black Dog · February 24, 2015

And you fall hard into the "overvalue" camp on this one.

It only seems that way from your position that this kid is a complete bust.

and which variable have I miscalculated with regard to this specific player? I have compared him only to the other forwards on the same team, nearly all of whom have tougher minutes.

If you don't know what variables impact plus/minus, you have no business using it.

He's been coddled and babied from day one, and has failed in every challenge presented.

That's a good one. A player who's been called out, healthy scratched, saddled with a rookie C for most of this season and junk linemates in past years has been "coddled." Seriously, this Yak hate of your is hilarious.

His value to this team is negligible, and nobody will want him anywhere(except the KHL) unless he is very, very cheap.

No way to test that as I'm betting he stays an Oiler for a long time and if he does get traded, it'd be for a return that fits another need on the Oilers.

overthere · February 25, 2015

It only seems that way from your position that this kid is a complete bust.

I'd be keeping the faith if he was a third round pick. He was the #1 overall, and has given no indication so far that he will ever play at the level of nearly all #1 overall picks. Bust.

That's a good one. A player who's been called out, healthy scratched, saddled with a rookie C for most of this season and junk linemates in past years has been "coddled." Seriously, this Yak hate of your is hilarious.

But he has not had what he so obviously needs, which is to go to Hockey 101 and learn the pro game. He should have been sent to the AHL as soon as it was possible, which was the beginning of his second season, the start of outright horrific play. I don't hate the kid, but I detest the complete waste of an opportunity.

No way to test that as I'm betting he stays an Oiler for a long time and if he does get traded, it'd be for a return that fits another need on the Oilers.

You are dreaming if you think Yakupov would get anything anywhere near what would normally be gotten for a #1 overall. As of now, they might get a 3rd rounder. Or a prospect.

Or maybe you reckon straight up for Nathan McKinnon or Aaron Ekblad?

Stop listening to those voices.

Black Dog · February 26, 2015

I'd be keeping the faith if he was a third round pick. He was the #1 overall, and has given no indication so far that he will ever play at the level of nearly all #1 overall picks. Bust.

It was a weak draft.n As for being a bust, it's an ignorant thing to say at this stage in his career. By comparison here's another guy taken at the top end of his draft: 154 GP, 66 points, Any guesses?

But he has not had what he so obviously needs, which is to go to Hockey 101 and learn the pro game. He should have been sent to the AHL as soon as it was possible, which was the beginning of his second season, the start of outright horrific play. I don't hate the kid, but I detest the complete waste of an opportunity.

And whose fault is that?

You are dreaming if you think Yakupov would get anything anywhere near what would normally be gotten for a #1 overall. As of now, they might get a 3rd rounder. Or a prospect.

So, you think a 21 year old former first overall pick would get a worse return than most trade deadline UFA rentals. Lol.

Black Dog · February 26, 2015

Holy cow the Leafs found a taker for Clarkson.

The_Squid · February 26, 2015

Traded for an injured player who also hasn't produced much, is on the downhill slide and has 6 more years on a contract for $37 mil....

It's like they traded for the same guy, except more injured and less useful!! lol

overthere · February 27, 2015

So, you think a 21 year old former first overall pick would get a worse return than most trade deadline UFA rentals. Lol.

This one: yes.

UFAs are established players or they are not still playing.

overthere · February 27, 2015

As of October 2014, Horton has been diagnosed with a degenerative back injury of the lumbar region that has ended his 2014-2015 season, as well as threatening to end his career.^[92]

damaged goods for damaged goods.

guyser · February 27, 2015

Traded for an injured player who also hasn't produced much, is on the downhill slide and has 6 more years on a contract for $37 mil....

It's like they traded for the same guy, except more injured and less useful!! lol

They move a contract they HAVE to pay and get an injured guy back. Horton comes with the long term IR in place, so they save money there.

If he cannot play, then they save a ton of cap space there.

Its a gamble but makes sense.

Shady · February 27, 2015

They move a contract they HAVE to pay and get an injured guy back. Horton comes with the long term IR in place, so they save money there.

If he cannot play, then they save a ton of cap space there.

Its a gamble but makes sense.

Exactly. Horton's contract isn't going to take up much cap space, and the Leafs don't care about paying that contract. It's one advantage to being a wealthy team in the cap era. Great move, saves a ton of money, and gets out of that long term contract. The Winnik trade was a steal, and so was the Franson/Santorelli trade. Somebody is finally making smart decisions.

Black Dog · February 27, 2015

Exactly. Horton's contract isn't going to take up much cap space, and the Leafs don't care about paying that contract. It's one advantage to being a wealthy team in the cap era. Great move, saves a ton of money, and gets out of that long term contract. The Winnik trade was a steal, and so was the Franson/Santorelli trade. Somebody is finally making smart decisions.

Think it's Nonis? :lol:

BubberMiley · February 27, 2015

Exactly. Horton's contract isn't going to take up much cap space, and the Leafs don't care about paying that contract. It's one advantage to being a wealthy team in the cap era. Great move, saves a ton of money, and gets out of that long term contract. The Winnik trade was a steal, and so was the Franson/Santorelli trade. Somebody is finally making smart decisions.

But you thought picking up Clarkson at an inflated price was a brilliant move and insulted me when I said otherwise. :lol:

But Pittsburgh certainly overpaid for Winnik. The Jets look pretty shrewd in comparison for what they paid for Tlusty.

Shady · February 27, 2015

But you thought picking up Clarkson at an inflated price was a brilliant move and insulted me when I said otherwise.

But Pittsburgh certainly overpaid for Winnik. The Jets look pretty shrewd in comparison for what they paid for Tlusty.

i never said it was a "shrewd" move. I said I liked the addition. Regardless, that Jets trade was a dumb one. The Sabres made out like bandits.

Shady · February 27, 2015

Think it's Nonis?

I doubt it. But you never know.

Black Dog · February 27, 2015

i never said it was a "shrewd" move. I said I liked the addition. Regardless, that Jets trade was a dumb one. The Sabres made out like bandits.

The Kane trade? Myers has 5 points in 7 games in Winnipeg, he could be a big (pun intended) piece of their blueline for years to come. As hockey trades go, this one is pretty close. Really still too early to tell one way or another.

But that's not the deal guyser was talking about.

BubberMiley · February 27, 2015

i never said it was a "shrewd" move. I said I liked the addition. Regardless, that Jets trade was a dumb one. The Sabres made out like bandits.

I forgot that Leafs fans are always completely oblivious to what is going on outside of their team. I'll help you out. The Tlusty trade was the day before yesterday. The Jets also made a trade with Buffalo a few weeks ago where they traded an injured-for-the-season, dressing room cancer, underperforming Evander Kane and decent defenceman Zach Bogosian to Buffalo for a first in the upcoming deep draft, Joel Armia (first round pick) and Brendan Lemieux (early second round pick), rental Drew Stafford, and Tyler Myers. Myers is an upgrade on Bogosian, so it's Kane for Stafford, Lemieux, Armia, and a first. Seeing as Kane has had one 30 goal season in six years in the NHL and has injuries that may affect him the rest of his career, how did the Sabres make out like bandits? Please elaborate. :lol:

Edited February 27, 2015 by BubberMiley

BubberMiley · March 2, 2015

Myers and Stafford both scored again last night in a win against the Kings. Myers is once again showing why he won the Calder, now that he has a team to play with.

It's looking like it was a really, really good trade for the Jets, but of course one would never know until exactly who won until you see how all the prospects and draft picks shake out.

Sometimes I think Shady just says things with no justification, just on the hope that it's true. :lol:

PrimeNumber · March 2, 2015

i never said it was a "shrewd" move. I said I liked the addition. Regardless, that Jets trade was a dumb one. The Sabres made out like bandits

It's just like BubberMiley said, the Jets have acquired pieces that can help them now. Kane won't be back until next season and will most likely not be the same player after shoulder surgery. Myers has been contributing in every single game he's played since being acquired, and Stafford has been playing great.

Time will tell but the Jets have not moved in the standings and Buffalo still sucks.. sooo

Mighty AC · March 2, 2015

It's just like BubberMiley said, the Jets have acquired pieces that can help them now. Kane won't be back until next season and will most likely not be the same player after shoulder surgery. Myers has been contributing in every single game he's played since being acquired, and Stafford has been playing great.

Plus any time a selfish player puts himself ahead of the team they should be shipped out. It's hard to fix a problematic team culture so it's important to nip selfish and unprofessional behaviour in the bud, before things get out of hand.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Mighty AC

PrimeNumber · March 2, 2015

Plus any time a selfish player puts himself ahead of the team they should be shipped out. It's hard to fix a problematic team culture so it's important to nip selfish and unprofessional behaviour in the bud, before things get out of hand.

Exactly Kane's time in Winnipeg was done, he's Buffalo's problem now. Gooooood riddance.

overthere · March 2, 2015

Plus any time a selfish player puts himself ahead of the team they should be shipped out. It's hard to fix a problematic team culture so it's important to nip selfish and unprofessional behaviour in the bud, before things get out of hand.

There is nothing unprofessional about players getting the most money they can possibly get in what can be a short career with an abrupt end. The average NHL career is 5.5 years and very few hockey players overall play a single game in the show. So, it is actually the very definition of professional to seek the most money for your services, and put yourself first.

Pro players are usually very reluctant to criticize their colleagues when they hold out for more money or seek free agency to cash in on a big contract elsewhere.

Every player puts himself ahead of the team, and rightfully so. Given a choice, players will play where their families are happy, or all things being equal where they can win championships. Of course, winning championships also gets.... more money.

Mighty AC · March 2, 2015

There is nothing unprofessional about players getting the most money they can possibly get in what can be a short career with an abrupt end. The average NHL career is 5.5 years and very few hockey players overall play a single game in the show. So, it is actually the very definition of professional to seek the most money for your services, and put yourself first.

Pro players are usually very reluctant to criticize their colleagues when they hold out for more money or seek free agency to cash in on a big contract elsewhere.

Every player puts himself ahead of the team, and rightfully so. Given a choice, players will play where their families are happy, or all things being equal where they can win championships. Of course, winning championships also gets.... more money.

Kane felt that team rules didn't apply to him. Guys like that need to go. Like Seguin in Boston who is an alcoholic that puts partying ahead of winning. Tough to give up talent, but guys like that will poison an entire team.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Mighty AC

Black Dog · March 2, 2015

Kane felt that team rules didn't apply to him. Guys like that need to go.

Important rules like...wearing a suit to practice.

Like Seguin in Boston who is an alcoholic that puts partying ahead of winning. Tough to give up talent, but guys like that will poison an entire team.

That's a pretty serious charge there. Got any proof of that?

Edited March 2, 2015 by Black Dog