Hey let's talk about the Leafs

[guyser]

Might want to check yourself on the western teams buddy.

Plus, we'd still have the Habs.

Thats true, the Habs do draw well on the road, but there better draws, NYR for one.

The best draw on the road is Toronto.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

[Boges]

I think the sentiment that MLSE doesn't care about winning because they make their money regardless is a bit of a fallacy.

Sure the Leafs sell out regardless but a winning team creates extraordinary buzz.

The whole Maple Leaf Square thing last playoffs seem to indicate Leafs fans are amongst the best in hockey.

[Shady]

I really wish people would stop supporting the Maple Leafs, so the organization would change. The market is too big to be abandoned.

The organization HAS changed.

[overthere]

"Gilbert plays top minutes in FLA with Campbell, so you're just wrong there."

Are you providing this as another example of a horrible Oilers trade?

The only reason Gilbert plays minutes like that is that he's on a terrible team.

He'd be #5 or #6 on an average defence corps. Maybe.

"But because he's Russian, people assume he's in it for the money, he'll bolt for home etc.

BTW if the Oilers din't want to give Yak the same contract Hall and RNH got, they shouldn't have created that expectation by handing out identical contracts based on potential."

Yakupovs outlook is nothing like Hall, Eberle or RNH. They all know how to work, he has no clue because he's never had to do it and won't do it. He has shown zero inclination to do what all three of the other guys do. Add Gagner to that trio too. I agree that the Oilers built expectations, but they know now they just cannot pay somebody so one dimensional big bucks on a long term deal- and they won't. THat leaves them with very few options, one really- trade him. But other teams know the score too, and they won't give up much at all for him with no contract and huge, unfounded expectations. The KHL will give him all of it: money, term, stature and no backchecking. I really don't see a way out for the Oilers unless Yakupov wakes the f**k up, and starts to work on his one way game.

The ebst palyers have physical skills, but what the great players have is unrelenting determination to win. Yakupov just doesn';t have that. If he isn't the center of attention, he pouts.

"Now I'm not gonna argue Tambo ran things into the ground, but I don't know what you expect from a rebuild."

Yeah, sick of that rebuild baloney too. The Oilers have been medicocre since 1991, and way worse than that for 10+ years. Lowe went over ten years without a #1 center on the team, since Doug Weight left FFS. Remember the glory days of Tood Marchant, Toby Petersen, Sean Horcoff. LOwe has been a disaster, and his legacy lives on with a nearly bare cupboard today. The Oilers had one great playoff run based on several guys playing way over their career norms for a few weeks. Other than that, its been rebuild rebuild rebuild for a cpuple of decades. Enough. et some people in who can evaluate pro and amateur talent, and build a team instead of decades of excuses. The metrics for success are simple: wins. Now. Or get out of the way. Nothing else will do.

[Mighty AC]

I hope Bobby Lu's role on the Olympic team is limited to opening doors and keeping the very end of the bench warm. I'd hate to see Kessel, wearing a USA jersey, beat him with a wide snap shot like he did last night.

[Boges]

I thought Lou played well Saturday. The Nucks problem is they can't score and they're hurt. Their only goal against the Leafs was a bit of a fluke.

Still Carey Price is performing better now. Either way both guys will get a chance to start this week.

I'm hoping that the two Leafs that are tearing have serious problems with the fact that Canada has put together an all-star team of great Defense men.

[Black Dog]

"Gilbert plays top minutes in FLA with Campbell, so you're just wrong there."

Are you providing this as another example of a horrible Oilers trade?

The only reason Gilbert plays minutes like that is that he's on a terrible team.

He'd be #5 or #6 on an average defence corps. Maybe.

Schultz for Gilbert was a horrible trade. Gilbert would be a top 4 defender on most teams in the league IMO.

Yakupovs outlook is nothing like Hall, Eberle or RNH. They all know how to work, he has no clue because he's never had to do it and won't do it. He has shown zero inclination to do what all three of the other guys do. Add Gagner to that trio too.

What do the other guys do that Yak doesn't? None of them are worth a damn defensively. They are all prone to coughing up the puck, being too fancy, blowing coverage etc. there's no sin Yak hasn't committed that each of the other (including and especially Gagner) haven't done a million times over, yet Yak's the only one who gets benched. Either they are taking a different approach with Yak because they want to ensure he doesn't keep the same bad habits the others have or there's a double standard at work

I agree that the Oilers built expectations, but they know now they just cannot pay somebody so one dimensional big bucks on a long term deal- and they won't.

They already did that when they signed Eberle to that gross contract. You're probably right in that they won't give Yak that deal. If they don't screw the pooch and trade him for pennies on the dollar, I see them trying to do a bridge deal with him that will blow up in their face.

THat leaves them with very few options, one really- trade him. But other teams know the score too, and they won't give up much at all for him with no contract and huge, unfounded expectations. The KHL will give him all of it: money, term, stature and no backchecking. I really don't see a way out for the Oilers unless Yakupov wakes the f**k up, and starts to work on his one way game.

Yup, double standard. Yak needs to work on his two way game, but good Canadian boy Eberle can lose the puck trying to dange between three defenders till the cows come home and no one says boo.

The ebst palyers have physical skills, but what the great players have is unrelenting determination to win. Yakupov just doesn';t have that. If he isn't the center of attention, he pouts.

This makes me wonder if you watch Yak play. Kid wants it, he's just raw. Pout? Never seen it. It doesn't help there's no decent vets on the team to help any of these kids become the pros they need to be. That's on management again.

Again, you never hear this about the Canadian kids, though Hall's on-ice petulance is clear (to say nothing of his rumoured off-ice activities).

Yeah, sick of that rebuild baloney too. The Oilers have been medicocre since 1991, and way worse than that for 10+ years. Lowe went over ten years without a #1 center on the team, since Doug Weight left FFS. Remember the glory days of Tood Marchant, Toby Petersen, Sean Horcoff. LOwe has been a disaster, and his legacy lives on with a nearly bare cupboard today. The Oilers had one great playoff run based on several guys playing way over their career norms for a few weeks. Other than that, its been rebuild rebuild rebuild for a cpuple of decades. Enough. et some people in who can evaluate pro and amateur talent, and build a team instead of decades of excuses. The metrics for success are simple: wins. Now. Or get out of the way. Nothing else will do.

I don't buy this "the Oilers have been rebuilding for decades" stuff. Being a mediocre to poor team =/ rebuilding. there's no doubt in my mind they changed direction drastically the year they drafted Hall from trying to scrape by to scorched earth/ Problem was, they had in charge a guy who could tear a team down, but had no clue how to lay a foundation, so we're looking at another few years to repair those mistakes.

[overthere]

What do the other guys do that Yak doesn't? None of them are worth a damn defensively. They are all prone to coughing up the puck, being too fancy, blowing coverage etc. there's no sin Yak hasn't committed that each of the other (including and especially Gagner) haven't done a million times over, yet Yak's the only one who gets benched. Either they are taking a different approach with Yak because they want to ensure he doesn't keep the same bad habits the others have or there's a double standard at work

They play much better than him in both ends of the ice.

RNH is pretty good defensively. Hall and Eberle have their moments too. But mostly what the others do that Yak doesn't do is work hard.

They already did that when they signed Eberle to that gross contract. You're probably right in that they won't give Yak that deal. If they don't screw the pooch and trade him for pennies on the dollar, I see them trying to do a bridge deal with him that will blow up in their face.

It's already blown. If they don't trade him, he will have his hand out bigtime and when they won';t pay him(and he isn't worth much in dollar terms) he'll demand to get out and (as witnessed recently with guys like Pronger and Souray) they'll try. But the rest of the league won't pay him either, so hello KHL at age 21 or so.

Eberle is struggling this year a bit, but who isn't on this 2014 cluster f**k? Here's the acid test: would the Oilers get some premium player(s) for Eberle now? The answer is yes, they would. Would the Oilers get premium player(s) for Yakupov. Definitely not. The kid is the first overall pick and is supposed to show some indication of being not a decent player- he is supposed to be a franchise level player. And he is far, far from that and shows no signs at all of getting there. They've blown it horribly, again.

I don't buy this "the Oilers have been rebuilding for decades" stuff. Being a mediocre to poor team =/ rebuilding. there's no doubt in my mind they changed direction drastically the year they drafted Hall from trying to scrape by to scorched earth/ Problem was, they had in charge a guy who could tear a team down, but had no clue how to lay a foundation, so we're looking at another few years to repair those mistakes.

What will be left in a 'few years'.? Do you think Hall, Eberle, RNH, J Schultz, Yakupov etc will still be sitting around here year after year of being humiliated every season. I wouldn't, if I were them. They can get their money anywhere in the league.

The Oilers were average or worse through the 90s. Their horrible years started way before Hall, when Doug Weight left and we literally had no skill and no #1 centre until they drafted poor RNH, which is asked to something no baby should be asked.

We're not in the middle of a rebuild, we're a few years in and making no progress despite having the #1 pick three years in a row. I think we will have to pretty much start over. We can keep a few of these guys if they want to stay, but again what is their incentive tio remain. "stick around guys, we'll suck some more!". Why should I believe a f**king word they say when results tell the tale? Not results this year, but the last dozen. Howe on earth can Bucky and Steve Smith survive FIVE head coaches on temas that just get worse all the time? Their credibility is shot for me.

Their pro scouting might be worse than their draft and trade records. Belanger, Barker, Eager, Belov, Grebeshkov for Christs sake.-and on and on, complete wastes of roster spots. Every time we play the Kings I see Stoll and Greene out there, exactly the kind of players we need and guys that Lowe gave away for nothing.

[Black Dog]

They play much better than him in both ends of the ice.

RNH is pretty good defensively. Hall and Eberle have their moments too. But mostly what the others do that Yak doesn't do is work hard.

They don't, really. RNH works, but he's got the body of a newborn deer. Hall's defensive work isn't there either, but he normally makes up for it by driving the offense. I'd be surprised if Eberle even knows there's a defensive zone.

It's already blown. If they don't trade him, he will have his hand out bigtime and when they won';t pay him(and he isn't worth much in dollar terms) he'll demand to get out and (as witnessed recently with guys like Pronger and Souray) they'll try. But the rest of the league won't pay him either, so hello KHL at age 21 or so.

The fact that you think Pronger and Souray serve as any kind of precedent shows this to be mere paranoia tinged with xenophobia.

Eberle is struggling this year a bit, but who isn't on this 2014 cluster f**k? Here's the acid test: would the Oilers get some premium player(s) for Eberle now? The answer is yes, they would. Would the Oilers get premium player(s) for Yakupov. Definitely not.

Eberle is four years older with three years NHL experience and his rep from the WJCs. Obviously his trade value will be higher. Check again in four years and the answer will be different.

The kid is the first overall pick and is supposed to show some indication of being not a decent player- he is supposed to be a franchise level player. And he is far, far from that and shows no signs at all of getting there. They've blown it horribly, again.

More nonsense. Yak is tracking fine when compared to past first overall picks. He'd probably be even further along if the Oilers had a clue how to deploy him in a way that maximizes his abilities.

What will be left in a 'few years'.? Do you think Hall, Eberle, RNH, J Schultz, Yakupov etc will still be sitting around here year after year of being humiliated every season. I wouldn't, if I were them. They can get their money anywhere in the league.

If the team is still losing horribly after a few years, then these guys will be the ones at fault.

The Oilers were average or worse through the 90s. Their horrible years started way before Hall, when Doug Weight left and we literally had no skill and no #1 centre until they drafted poor RNH, which is asked to something no baby should be asked.

They had a brief stretch of being horrible post-dynasty. They were pretty much average after that until 2009-10.

We're not in the middle of a rebuild, we're a few years in and making no progress despite having the #1 pick three years in a row. I think we will have to pretty much start over. We can keep a few of these guys if they want to stay, but again what is their incentive tio remain. "stick around guys, we'll suck some more!".

So you want to, what, trade the kids and hope that a new group will prove to be more of an overnight success? Fact is, this was never going to be a fast turnaround even if they had done everything right and everyone progressed in a strictly linear way.

Why should I believe a f**king word they say when results tell the tale? Not results this year, but the last dozen. Howe on earth can Bucky and Steve Smith survive FIVE head coaches on temas that just get worse all the time? Their credibility is shot for me.

I expect those two will be sacrificed after this season.

Their pro scouting might be worse than their draft and trade records. Belanger, Barker, Eager, Belov, Grebeshkov for Christs sake.-and on and on, complete wastes of roster spots. Every time we play the Kings I see Stoll and Greene out there, exactly the kind of players we need and guys that Lowe gave away for nothing.

Stoll and Greene for Vish was a trade I'd do every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Also worth noting, most of the busts you listed were Tambellini picks. Belov was a decent find for Mac T, Grebs was a low risk gamble that cost the team very little. On the other side of the ledger there's Gordon, Perron, Hendricks, Scrivens, even Brygalov, all pick ups who have been solid to excellent.

[overthere]

The fact that you think Pronger and Souray serve as any kind of precedent shows this to be mere paranoia tinged with xenophobia.

Fear of foreigners? Huh?

I know the intimate details of Sourays relationship with management. He left because of his relationship with Lowe and Tambellini. Fact.

So you want to, what, trade the kids and hope that a new group will prove to be more of an overnight success? Fact is, this was never going to be a fast turnaround even if they had done everything right and everyone progressed in a strictly linear way.

Nope. The only one of the young uns I'd trade is Yakupov, but only because his trade value will continue to plummer as his salary expectations for his second contract soar.

No, I'd like to see the team rebuild starting with where it shoulod have started several years ago: with the wholesale firing of management for failing to build any sort of surrounding cast for the high draft picks. Start with Lowe, dump all the pro and amateur scouting crew, all the assistants and take a hard lok at Eakins who has not performed either.

In management, keep Patrick Laforge and his marketing bunch because they have managed to grow revnue with a wretched, shitty product.

Begin where you must begin- at the beginning. Prune heartily and thoroughly.

I expect those two will be sacrificed after this season.

Sacrificed implies they don't deserve to be fired. In act, what they deserved was never to be hired since they are not professional coaches, which they have amply proven over and over again. They are just a symptom of the disease of course.

Stoll and Greene for Vish was a trade I'd do every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Also worth noting, most of the busts you listed were Tambellini picks. Belov was a decent find for Mac T, Grebs was a low risk gamble that cost the team very little. On the other side of the ledger there's Gordon, Perron, Hendricks, Scrivens, even Brygalov, all pick ups who have been solid to excellent.

Nopoe. Stoll and Greene are precisely the type of gritty players we desperately need. And Stoll wins faceoffs. Belov is another complete bust. He plays way too soft for the NHL, pretty pathetic for a big man. Note that he was a healthy scratch for the last four games befpore the Olympic break, which is astonishing when you consider how bad the Oiler defence is as a group. Grebeshkov was terrible before, and worse now. Who is advising MacT on pro players like Belov and Grebeshkov. Though really it does not matter, somebody has to take responsibility, and nobody does on this team.

They're my team forever, but the OIlers have some heavy, heavy rot at their core. I don't see anything changing in the near future with this management group.

Just watch them find a significant job for Ryan Smyth in the off season......

And let us add Dave Semenko as another old boy name that has stunk the joint out for years- with no consequences.

[Mighty AC]

Medal standings by NHL club. Notice the absence of both the Leafs and Oilers.

[Boges]

I think the fact the Leafs only had 3 guys in the Olympics will help them for the rest of the season. Most of the team has been resting up, where Detroit had 6 Swedes there.

My worry is that JVR and Kessel are a bit deflated from the disappointing end to their Olympics.

I think Bernier is as good, if not better, than Price and Lou. He just doesn't have the resume to warrant an Olympics spot.

[guyser]

Yea...look at the Leafs, its their fault the Yanks rolled over in the Bronze.

[Mighty AC]

I think Bernier is as good, if not better, than Price and Lou. He just doesn't have the resume to warrant an Olympics spot.

I expect Bernie and Price will be the two goalies that actually play next time around. Not yet having a full year as a starter under his belt was reason enough to leave him out this year.

[overthere]

I think the fact the Leafs only had 3 guys in the Olympics will help them for the rest of the season. Most of the team has been resting up, where Detroit had 6 Swedes there.

My worry is that JVR and Kessel are a bit deflated from the disappointing end to their Olympics.

I think Bernier is as good, if not better, than Price and Lou. He just doesn't have the resume to warrant an Olympics spot.

I thought the Americans were going to be much better than they turned out to be.

They rolled over some weak sisters in early play, and barely beat the Russians who turned out to be very soft.

They lost to Canada in a game that was the most lopsided 1-0 game I've seen for a long time, and were crushed by the Finns. They finsihed 4th, which was about right.

[Boges]

Disappointing end to that game against the Habs Sunday.

I guess Bernie should have just poked checked the puck on that break-away but the call for a penalty there was a bit of an outrage.

Also it looks like the Team USA guys are back to where they were before the break, 2 goals each.

[Black Dog]

Disappointing end to that game against the Habs Sunday.

I guess Bernie should have just poked checked the puck on that break-away but the call for a penalty there was a bit of an outrage.

Also it looks like the Team USA guys are back to where they were before the break, 2 goals each.

Say what? It's not like there was a judgement call there or anything. Pretty clear violation of the rules.

[Shady]

Disappointing end to that game against the Habs Sunday.

I guess Bernie should have just poked checked the puck on that break-away but the call for a penalty there was a bit of an outrage.

Also it looks like the Team USA guys are back to where they were before the break, 2 goals each.

Yep, that was a brutal call. So was the interference call on Gleason. Just brutal. And then the way Montreal scored was a complete joke. Sometimes the puck just doesn't bounce your way. I'm just glad they got a point out of it. I'm hoping they can start another hot streak again like before the Olympics. Might take a few games to get going though.

[Mighty AC]

A solid game by Reimer last night, which is good news for the buds. Unfortunately, Columbus has had their number this season.

[Boges]

Second time in four games the Leafs have a power play that gives up 2 goals.

At least they won. Bozak is so under-rated.

[Boges]

Blurry eyes this morning after watching most of the first two periods. Leafs West coast swing and the Time Change really bad for sleep schedule.

Was watching anticipating the Leafs would get run out of the Arena but they were rather dominant.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Boges

[Boges]

2 of 3 in California!

Reimer saves the day after Bernie goes out against his former team. Now the Leafs are 9 points clear of a playoff spot, so can we please start talking about this team as a contender?

[Black Dog]

2 of 3 in California!

Reimer saves the day after Bernie goes out against his former team. Now the Leafs are 9 points clear of a playoff spot, so can we please start talking about this team as a contender?

PLAN THE PARADE!

[guyser]

PLAN THE PARADE!

Shhh...some might just start to !

They are not a contender...yet. They may make a strong run but one need only look at the West to see 4 stronger teams, if not 5 or 6 of them Chi, Ana, LA,SJ, Colo are all superior.

But the bright spot is that whoever emerges from that cage fight will be bruised and battered from the 3 rounds. On this side we have only the Bruins who can do that.

[Boges]

Shhh...some might just start to !

They are not a contender...yet. They may make a strong run but one need only look at the West to see 4 stronger teams, if not 5 or 6 of them Chi, Ana, LA,SJ, Colo are all superior.

But the bright spot is that whoever emerges from that cage fight will be bruised and battered from the 3 rounds. On this side we have only the Bruins who can do that.

Shhh, Other than San Jose, they've beaten each of those West teams.

One thing the Leafs have that will help them in the playoffs in the Goaltending. They also have one of the top lines in the league.

We'll see, the team is pretty young so getting out of the first round would be considered a success for this season. Especially when many thought that they wouldn't make the playoffs again under this alignment.