Hey let's talk about the Leafs

[Mighty AC]

I don't think that's the case. The travel sked can be rough, but by all accounts, people who come to play there love it. What turns people off is the management and the futility. Lots of guys (eg Sheldon Souray) have had run ins with the Oilers brass and I'm betting word gets around the fraternity.

I know a former Oiler and he loved his time in Edmonton. However, he was young and admits that a lot of players, especially those with families, don't want to live in such a small and remote location. NY, Toronto, LA, Boston, Vancouver, Montreal, Chicago, etc. along with the warm weather locations have a lot to offer an NHL wife and kids.

[overthere]

Oilers' biggest need is a top D-man

I used to think that, but now have concluded that their most pressing need by far is a decent goalie. A starter.

They have more or less nothing in the system, another massive fail by Kevin Lowe.

I pray they do not take smiling Jimmy Reimer this summer.

[Boges]

I used to think that, but now have concluded that their most pressing need by far is a decent goalie. A starter.

They have more or less nothing in the system, another massive fail by Kevin Lowe.

I pray they do not take smiling Jimmy Reimer this summer.

I used to think that, but now have concluded that their most pressing need by far is a decent goalie. A starter.

They have more or less nothing in the system, another massive fail by Kevin Lowe.

I pray they do not take smiling Jimmy Reimer this summer.

They just picked up Scrivens who has been playing great, I think they might consider him their starter of the future.

Speaking of the Oilers D, last Friday they traded for Mark Fraser from the Leafs who has spent much of the season scratched.

[overthere]

Yeah, the Oilers have been there done that with other goalie auditions: Dubnyk, Khabibulin, Gerber and others.

They can't afford several more years of maybe goalies, they can't afford tryputs of castoffs like Scrivens, they can't afford to develop a kid like Brossoit and hope somehting works out. They need to buy one, now.

Scrivens got shelled his first game, played great for one, played OK in another.......

It tells you just how immnesely shitty the Oilers D is that FRaser can play for them.

The Oilers only have perhaps two guys on D who would even play at all on other teams. Blame Lowe, it's his responsibility.

Buchberger and Steve Smith must have set NHL records for having survived five (5) coaches while compiling horrific won/loss records.

I'm getting some bumper stickers together. " LOwe Must GO" won't work, but I know what will work" Boycott Rexall"

The worst part is that there is no reason at all to think any of this will change for a few years.

There may be a much worse part coming: how long until the young core gets sick of losing, can see that nothing is going to change and says 'trade me'.

Lowe has made the playoffs three times in 13 years and only once in the last 8. It's beyond pathetic.

[Boges]

Hey at least they beat the Sabres.

All the while, the Leafs are the hottest team in the NHL 9-1-1. Playing Florida tonight then two relative toughies against Tampa and Vancouver (though the Nucks are really struggling right now) then the Olympics, where only 3 of them are going, (granted 2 are on the top line) after which Dave Bolland should be back.

Full strength into the stretch drive. I think optimism is warranted.

[Black Dog]

I used to think that, but now have concluded that their most pressing need by far is a decent goalie. A starter.

They have more or less nothing in the system, another massive fail by Kevin Lowe.

I pray they do not take smiling Jimmy Reimer this summer.

Nah, a decent D can make average goalies look great (see: Chicago). A great goalie with a crap D can only take you so far.

[overthere]

A single defenceman cannot have the impact of a good or even average goalie.

Everybody is creaming over Scrivens because he won a game for the Oilers. Its exciting because it has been so long since that happened......It happens a few times per year for many teams.

Chicago wins because they have both good defencemen and GREAT team defensive play. And Crawford is at least average.

If the Oilers are going to be in any way competitive anytime in the next few years, they need a goalie that is average or better to have any chance. It might be Scrivens, but this franchise cannot afford that risk again.

Unfortuntely, the stupidity of gambling on that position lingers. Lowe bet the farm on Roloson at the trade deadline in 2006. He was an old second string goalie who played blah for ther Oilers in the regular season, then caught fire in the playoiffs they barely made and carried the team to the final.

The team still believes they can do that. They tried again, later with Khabibulin Their draft record for goalies is terrible, and they will be making a dreadful but predictable mistake if they try it again with Scrivens.

Really, the team has so many massive gaping holes. It's incomprehensible how Lowe and cronies are still employed.

[Mighty AC]

Clarkson had a goal and 7 hits in his return, but they lost. They have a much better record with him out of the lineup, so Carlisle may be hoping for another suspension. Even though they overpaid for DC, I think he will shine under playoff rules.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Mighty AC

[overthere]

Any predictions on the timing of the Leafs collapse?

They'll have to work hard to exceed the epic fail of last year

[Boges]

Any predictions on the timing of the Leafs collapse?

They'll have to work hard to exceed the epic fail of last year

They lost last night. Must mean the season is done! :-/

When they can't score, they don't win. Talk to Vancouver about that.

The collapse last season was only bad because they came 11 minutes from winning a series against the eventual Eastern Conference winner. It was impressive they had the moxy to make it there.

[Black Dog]

A single defenceman cannot have the impact of a good or even average goalie.

Depends on the defenceman. I don't think the Oilers will be able to land another Pronger (Weber?), but they'll need at least two top 4 D. With average goaltending (which isn't that hard to find), that would make a huge difference.

If the Oilers are going to be in any way competitive anytime in the next few years, they need a goalie that is average or better to have any chance. It might be Scrivens, but this franchise cannot afford that risk again.

Unfortuntely, the stupidity of gambling on that position lingers. Lowe bet the farm on Roloson at the trade deadline in 2006. He was an old second string goalie who played blah for ther Oilers in the regular season, then caught fire in the playoiffs they barely made and carried the team to the final.

The team still believes they can do that. They tried again, later with Khabibulin Their draft record for goalies is terrible, and they will be making a dreadful but predictable mistake if they try it again with Scrivens.

I don't know if Scrivens is the answer, but if he plays well the rest of the season, I see no harm in trying to get him for a reasonable contract. Only way it's a mistake is if they overpay. What other options are there?

[overthere]

Depends on the defenceman. I don't think the Oilers will be able to land another Pronger (Weber?), but they'll need at least two top 4 D. With average goaltending (which isn't that hard to find), that would make a huge difference.

I don't know if Scrivens is the answer, but if he plays well the rest of the season, I see no harm in trying to get him for a reasonable contract. Only way it's a mistake is if they overpay. What other options are there?

I have no quibble with signing Scrivens if he plays OK for the rest of the season, its not like they have many options. But not as a #1 goalie, it would be utter folly.

I agree that getting two top 4 D would realy help, but I was talking about what their #1 priority must be in the off season or earlier: getting a decent goalie. Without one, you cannot make the playoffs much less contend. If they could get it all, great but that won't happen.

They do have a couple of promising defencemen in the system buth both are a couple years away(Klefbom and Nurse). They don't have any goalies except maybe Brossoit who is likely years from playing as a starter, if ever.

You need a bit of everything to win..... Weber/Nashville is an example. Nashville had Weber and Suter, 2 of the top 5 in the league. Rinne in goal, one of the best in the league too. And every year they struggled hard to get to the playoffs, and never did anything when they got there. No offence at all.

[Mighty AC]

What other options are there?

Ryan Miller will be available, but he will be pricey. Scrivens has been great so far, but we'll see if it lasts after the grind of starting sets in. He may be a starter soon, but it's hard to know for sure. Considering he makes the minimum we should be able to sign him for a very reasonable price.

As for the D, it's slowly going in the right direction. Ference was a good addition and I like the Schultzes but we need another piece or two. Studs like Weber, Letang, etc are expensive and hard to come by, but the Pens have a some great D-men set to be free agents. Orpik and Niskanen are UFAs at the end of the year and Paul Martin will be one after next season. All 3 would be great additions.

[Boges]

What me to change the name of the thread to "When will the Oilers be Good Again?"

[Mighty AC]

As fans of the Oilers we've been given a small taste of what it's like to be part of Leafs Nation. We know your pain...minus the 5 cups and 6 finals appearances in our lifetime of course.

[overthere]

Um that is 7 appearances while the Leafs have.... zero in a longer time.

How is the defence going in the right direction? Maybe you have more lifetimes than me?

Justin Schultz is being destroyed by the Oilers because he plays too many and the wrong kind of minutes. He should be rushing the puck with a rock solid defensive guy as his partner. Instead, he spends his days getting smashed into the boards for 25 minutes a night. He'll be gone at the first opportunity.

Nick Schultz is at best a journeyman , He is UFA this year and the Oilers wont sign him.

Corey Potter is demonstrating he is a career AHL player.

Ference has been a stud, but is too small to make much difference. Also pretty old already.

Mark Fraser, Leaf leftovers.

Mark Marincin, promising kid but seriously underweight.

Anton Belov: terrible disappointment. Absolutely incomprehensible that he made the Russian Olympic team. Wow! A big man who plays small in every way

Jeff Petry: at one time looked like he'd be great, but he is so physically useless that teams love to beat on him because he does nothing in return. Once in a while shows some offensive flair, but.... not good enough by far.

Philip Larsen: joke

It's easily the worst defence squad in the league, and not really anything great on the horizon in the AHL. Fedun might become a 5/6 guy, Klefbom is not yet showing much of anything at the AHL level, Darrel Nurse looks good but is years away....

Overall- a horror show.

[Black Dog]

What me to change the name of the thread to "When will the Oilers be Good Again?"

How about just "Let's talk about hockey"?

[Black Dog]

I'm a lot more positive than you overthere.

I'm with you on J. Schultyz needing a steady partner: I think him and Petry would make a damn fine second pairing behind a real #1. Petry is a super underrated Oiler, just makes everyone he plays with better. Problem is both these guys are playing too high in the batting order. Ference is fine as a 5-6 option moving forward. Old Schultz is glue-factory bound and Fraser looks like he already came and went from there.

Pipeline is pretty stocked. Marincin has been a fantastic surprise. He's looking great for a 21 year old. Gernat is also tracking well and may have a higher ceiling than Maricin. Klefblom has had injury issues and is taking some time to adjust to the NA game, but he's come on strong down in OKC since returning from his last knock. He's 20 for crying out loud. Nurse is the best player in the OHL, a season in OKC and I can see him stepping into the lineup. not sure they'll land Ekblad, but if they did, there's another bullet in the chamber. Even if only one or two of those guys pans out, that's a decent stable. Much more concerned about the prospect depth up front.

[overthere]

I'm a lot more positive than you overthere.

I'm with you on J. Schultyz needing a steady partner: I think him and Petry would make a damn fine second pairing behind a real #1. Petry is a super underrated Oiler, just makes everyone he plays with better. Problem is both these guys are playing too high in the batting order. Ference is fine as a 5-6 option moving forward. Old Schultz is glue-factory bound and Fraser looks like he already came and went from there.

Pipeline is pretty stocked. Marincin has been a fantastic surprise. He's looking great for a 21 year old. Gernat is also tracking well and may have a higher ceiling than Maricin. Klefblom has had injury issues and is taking some time to adjust to the NA game, but he's come on strong down in OKC since returning from his last knock. He's 20 for crying out loud. Nurse is the best player in the OHL, a season in OKC and I can see him stepping into the lineup. not sure they'll land Ekblad, but if they did, there's another bullet in the chamber. Even if only one or two of those guys pans out, that's a decent stable. Much more concerned about the prospect depth up front.

I've had the positive hammered out of me by reality. Kevin Lowe has set this team back in a serious way, they really have no depth anywhere. We (fans)almost always overrate our talent and prospects. For example, I agree Maricin is an upgrade on the likes of Potter and Larsen, but would he play at all on any other NHL team. Answer: no, of course not.

And keep in mind that all these guys: Gernat, Nurse, Klefbom, are all maybes. The Oilers need proven NHL players, not more draft picks and prospects.

And we'll have to agree to disagree about Petry. No doubt he has skill, but he has had a horrible year, his profound defensive weaknesses get exposed nearly every night. Above all, he is just entirely too soft.

I can't see the Oilers being competetitive enough to even make the playoffs for a few years, and unless MacTavish pulls numerous miracles out of his ass a contending team is very far away.

Oh, and you heard it here: Yakupovs next contract will be in the KHL.

Edited February 7, 2014 by overthere

[Black Dog]

I've had the positive hammered out of me by reality. Kevin Lowe has set this team back in a serious way, they really have no depth anywhere. We (fans)almost always overrate our talent and prospects. For example, I agree Maricin is an upgrade on the likes of Potter and Larsen, but would he play at all on any other NHL team. Answer: no, of course not.

And keep in mind that all these guys: Gernat, Nurse, Klefbom, are all maybes. The Oilers need proven NHL players, not more draft picks and prospects.

But we were talking about prospects.

And we'll have to agree to disagree about Petry. No doubt he has skill, but he has had a horrible year, his profound defensive weaknesses get exposed nearly every night. Above all, he is just entirely too soft.

People said the exact same thing about Tom Gilbert and he's doing great in FLA. Oilers fans overrate prospects and underrate NHL players. That's a fact.

I can't see the Oilers being competetitive enough to even make the playoffs for a few years, and unless MacTavish pulls numerous miracles out of his ass a contending team is very far away.

Oh, and you heard it here: Yakupovs next contract will be in the KHL.

I seriously doubt that. the Oilers might be dumb enough to trade him, but there's no way Yak goes back to the KHL.

[cybercoma]

I really wish people would stop supporting the Maple Leafs, so the organization would change. The market is too big to be abandoned.

Edited February 7, 2014 by cybercoma

[overthere]

"People said the exact same thing about Tom Gilbert and he's doing great in FLA. Oilers fans overrate prospects and underrate NHL players. That's a fact."

Tom Gilbert was traded(for Nick Shultz) because they thought Petry could take over the offensive potential Gilbert never quite provided, while not being a defensive liability. The Oilers were wrong about Petry on both counts, despite a promising start. Gilbert is perhaps the #5 defenseman on another very bad team. He'll drop further when a couple of their young guys mature.

"But we were talking about prospects."

Yes, I mentiuoned several of them. Except for some prospects (not NHL calibre players, prsopects) the Oiler cupboard is bare except for a couple of D Men. That in itself is an indictment of just how badly Lowe has done. Except for a few young forwards, we have more or less nothing. It seems incredible given how long we have had really high draft picks.

"I seriously doubt that. the Oilers might be dumb enough to trade him, but there's no way Yak goes back to the KHL."

it's dead easy to imagine the scenario given what has happened. Yakupov does not like playing like he is required to do in the NHL. He doesn't like to backcheck and rarely will despite two years of having that message hammered home. When he played so very poorly, he was benched. His reaction: get his agent to come and read the riot act to Oilers management. Their reaction: more ice time. Why? Because they have to. No doubnt at all that Yakupov sees himself as a very important player right now, and that the Oilers are not appreciative.

So next year when its time to negotaiate a new contract with Nail, I can tell you what he'll want: the same deal that RNH, Eberle and Hall have- 6 or 7 years at $6 or $7 million per year. He won't get it from Edmonton, and Larionov knows he won't get it anywhere else in the NHL.

Hello KHL, where they'll gladly pay that for a native son drafted first overall.

[Black Dog]

Tom Gilbert was traded(for Nick Shultz) because they thought Petry could take over the offensive potential Gilbert never quite provided, while not being a defensive liability. The Oilers were wrong about Petry on both counts, despite a promising start. Gilbert is perhaps the #5 defenseman on another very bad team. He'll drop further when a couple of their young guys mature.

Gilbert plays top minutes in FLA with Campbell, so you're just wrong there.

Yes, I mentiuoned several of them. Except for some prospects (not NHL calibre players, prsopects) the Oiler cupboard is bare except for a couple of D Men. That in itself is an indictment of just how badly Lowe has done. Except for a few young forwards, we have more or less nothing. It seems incredible given how long we have had really high draft picks.

Wut? They had four (going on five) years of high picks. Chose forwards in the first round three of those times. Post first round picks are a crap shoot at best, so that they have three D out of there that look like they have NHL potential isn't too shabby.

Now I'm not gonna argue Tambo ran things into the ground, but I don't know what you expect from a rebuild.

It's dead easy to imagine the scenario given what has happened. Yakupov does not like playing like he is required to do in the NHL. He doesn't like to backcheck and rarely will despite two years of having that message hammered home. When he played so very poorly, he was benched. His reaction: get his agent to come and read the riot act to Oilers management. Their reaction: more ice time. Why? Because they have to. No doubnt at all that Yakupov sees himself as a very important player right now, and that the Oilers are not appreciative.

So next year when its time to negotaiate a new contract with Nail, I can tell you what he'll want: the same deal that RNH, Eberle and Hall have- 6 or 7 years at $6 or $7 million per year. He won't get it from Edmonton, and Larionov knows he won't get it anywhere else in the NHL.

Hello KHL, where they'll gladly pay that for a native son drafted first overall.

If Nail Yakupov was Nate Johnson from Saskatoon, this stuff of fevered imaging doesn't happen.

Yak is a 20 year old kid who has basically played just over one NHL season worth of hockey. A kid who, by all accounts, eats, sleeps, breathes hockey. But because he's Russian, people assume he's in it for the money, he'll bolt for home etc.

BTW if the Oilers din't want to give Yak the same contract Hall and RNH got, they shouldn't have created that expectation by handing out identical contracts based on potential.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Black Dog

[guyser]

I really wish people would stop supporting the Maple Leafs, so the organization would change. The market is too big to be abandoned.

Stop supporting the Leafs?

Geez, who would fill the coffers and arenas around the league if that happened?

Hell, Ottawa wouldnt ever sell out a game. Calgary and Edmonton too . Buffalo would hurt as well.

[Black Dog]

Stop supporting the Leafs?

Geez, who would fill the coffers and arenas around the league if that happened?

Hell, Ottawa wouldnt ever sell out a game. Calgary and Edmonton too . Buffalo would hurt as well.

Might want to check yourself on the western teams buddy.

Plus, we'd still have the Habs.