Yukon Jack Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Great art! http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=379 and by the same artist: http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/page/view_search/353 Edited February 5, 2012 by Yukon Jack Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Posted February 5, 2012 Great art! http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=379 Yes, very subtle. "It is not a partisan painting" And yet the author parrots the Paulist policies that would throw "The Forgotten Man" into the economic chasm that is helping lift the poor in other countries while destroying the American middle class. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Posted February 5, 2012 and by the same artist: http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/page/view_search/353 The second piece is absolutely moronic - a painting that is required to be shown in HTML format so that the atomic stupidity of its message can be shown to the viewer via float over: ""College Professor - He tightly holds his Origin of Species book by Charles Darwin. This represents the liberal left's control of our education system. His smug expression describes the attitude of many of the education elite. There is no room for God in education. There is contempt for any other viewpoints. Humanism dominates the educational system of America and I believe that is wrong. Notice that he is the only one sitting at the top step. He tries to place himself on equal footing with God, but he is still nothing next to the intelligence of the Creator."" Yes, the college professor is what is wrong with America... Thanks for prioritizing. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Guest Manny Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Referring to what other people sincerely believe as "atomic stupidity" is highly offensive to those people. Quote
punked Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Referring to what other people sincerely believe as "atomic stupidity" is highly offensive to those people. Yah but in some cases it has to be done for the good of everyone else. I mean did you look at those paintings they were pure crazy sauce. Quote
Yukon Jack Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Yes, very subtle. "It is not a partisan painting" And yet the author parrots the Paulist policies that would throw "The Forgotten Man" into the economic chasm that is helping lift the poor in other countries while destroying the American middle class. Yes, we see how successfully the "poor" WAS lifted out of their misery in Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain (notice how the acronym of listing them by the first letter spells "PIGS"?) And is NOT a partisan painting. If any Republican was as obvious in contempt of the Constitution as to declare a "Fundamental Change" to it as 0bama so brazenly declared, the artist would have been just as strong in his condemnation. Quote
Yukon Jack Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Yah but in some cases it has to be done for the good of everyone else. I mean did you look at those paintings they were pure crazy sauce. This art compares quite favorably to the highest achievement of art by liberals, the "Family Guy". Quote
punked Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Yes, we see how successfully the "poor" WAS lifted out of their misery in Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain (notice how the acronym of listing them by the first letter spells "PIGS"?) And is NOT a partisan painting. If any Republican was as obvious in contempt of the Constitution as to declare a "Fundamental Change" to it as 0bama so brazenly declared, the artist would have been just as strong in his condemnation. OMG you have no idea what is going on now, or what happened to lead the European nations to where they are today. Please don't just Scream Europe and Debt and think that wins you an argument. Quote
Guest Manny Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Yah but in some cases it has to be done for the good of everyone else. Everyone else??? Is that the 49%, or the 51%. Quote
Yukon Jack Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Referring to what other people sincerely believe as "atomic stupidity" is highly offensive to those people. Offending others comes naturally to liberals, in fact condescension and derision towards anyone and everyone who they think is stupid enough to disagree with them, is their life blood, which they must suck away from others, kind of like a vampire. Liberals never offend anyone, they just point out the "stupidity" of others. That - in their minds - is not offensive, it is a valiant effort to lift those others out of their pathetic conservative morass. But when just one of those others dare to question or criticize a liberal or a liberal thought, they swing into high gear of name-calling, they bring out their time-tested race card, gender card, phony class war fare and alleged environmental purity. Give the liberal vampires a sliver of day light and they turn into dust. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Posted February 5, 2012 Referring to what other people sincerely believe as "atomic stupidity" is highly offensive to those people. I didn't do that. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
punked Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Everyone else??? Is that the 49%, or the 51%. Come on. Is that where you want to go with this argument? Have you even looked at the crazy that is those paintings seriously? Quote
Yukon Jack Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 OMG you have no idea what is going on now, or what happened to lead the European nations to where they are today. Please don't just Scream Europe and Debt and think that wins you an argument. You ARE right! It is no longer valid to excoriate only European countries for their free-loading, wasteful, criminal, irresponsible and childishly naive approach to finances. It now affects the United States almost as bad, but unlike Europe where the slide is irreversible, America still has a chance with a President other than 0bama. I would be perfectly happy to lose any argument if the national debt was at least reduced, but preferably, eliminated. Until then, though, the sad and horrible example of Europe should be brought to the attention of sadly misguided liberals, such as yourself. Quote
Guest Manny Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 I didn't do that. the atomic stupidity of its message can be shown to the viewer via float over: ""College Professor - He tightly holds his Origin of Species book by Charles Darwin. This represents the liberal left's control of our education system. His smug expression describes the attitude of many of the education elite. There is no room for God in education. There is contempt for any other viewpoints. Humanism dominates the educational system of America and I believe that is wrong. Notice that he is the only one sitting at the top step. He tries to place himself on equal footing with God, but he is still nothing next to the intelligence of the Creator."" Yes, the college professor is what is wrong with America... Thanks for prioritizing. "The atomic stupidity of his message" as you put it is what some people, apparently lots of people, believe in. So yeah, you did do that. Quote
punked Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 You ARE right! It is no longer valid to excoriate only European countries for their free-loading, wasteful, criminal, irresponsible and childishly naive approach to finances. It now affects the United States almost as bad, but unlike Europe where the slide is irreversible, America still has a chance with a President other than 0bama. I would be perfectly happy to lose any argument if the national debt was at least reduced, but preferably, eliminated. Until then, though, the sad and horrible example of Europe should be brought to the attention of sadly misguided liberals, such as yourself. Yah to bad there way more factors at work then Debt. Ask yourself this why do countries lend to Japan who has 200% debt to GDP at a very low rate? Ohhhhh it is because Japan just like the US controls their money flow meaning they can play with interest rates and print money. This is not true of PIGS. There is plenty more we could talk about but in the end just that alone should put your argument to bed and show you are trying to make a complex Macro Economic problem simple because you have very little understanding of it. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Posted February 5, 2012 "The atomic stupidity of his message" as you put it is what some people, apparently lots of people, believe in. So yeah, you did do that. People "believe" in values not messages, and I share the values that are specified in the American constitution. The message, though, comes from the artist directly and is separate from the values conveyed. It's the point he's trying to make about our problems that I find stupid. It's blunt, off the mark and - again - stupid IMO. If people also "believe" in a message, then I suppose I do disagree with them. But people shouldn't "believe" in a message like this so much as be convinced by evidence. Messages that are 'emotive arguments', especially those conveyed through art, can work but this isn't that either. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Yukon Jack Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Yah to bad there way more factors at work then Debt. Ask yourself this why do countries lend to Japan who has 200% debt to GDP at a very low rate? Ohhhhh it is because Japan just like the US controls their money flow meaning they can play with interest rates and print money. This is not true of PIGS. There is plenty more we could talk about but in the end just that alone should put your argument to bed and show you are trying to make a complex Macro Economic problem simple because you have very little understanding of it. Would you please repeat that - or better still, say something comprehensible and meaningful - in ENGLISH? Quote
Guest Manny Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 People "believe" in values not messages, and I share the values that are specified in the American constitution. The message, though, comes from the artist directly and is separate from the values conveyed. It's the point he's trying to make about our problems that I find stupid. It's blunt, off the mark and - again - stupid IMO. If people also "believe" in a message, then I suppose I do disagree with them. But people shouldn't "believe" in a message like this so much as be convinced by evidence. Messages that are 'emotive arguments', especially those conveyed through art, can work but this isn't that either. You like to play a lot of word games, Mr. Ambassador. People believe in values, and those values are conveyed through a message. So by calling the message stupid, you call the values that the message identifies, stupid. In any case the use of the word "stupid" to criticize what you may personally disagree with, is blunt, and not necessary. You talk about evidence versus emotive arguments? Stupid is not emotive? Do you have any evidence to back up your message that it's stupid? Pot, meet kettle. Tell you what, better you stick to asking obtuse questions and saying nothing yourself, it keeps foot out of mouth. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Posted February 5, 2012 You like to play a lot of word games, Mr. Ambassador. Please don't call me that, thanks. People believe in values, and those values are conveyed through a message. So by calling the message stupid, you call the values that the message identifies, stupid. Not at all. If I believe in personal freedom, it's perfectly reasonable for me to find some depictions of that stupid. I'm sure you could find some examples yourself of values you agree with, but dumb ways that the value is used in a message. In any case the use of the word "stupid" to criticize what you may personally disagree with, is blunt, and not necessary. You talk about evidence versus emotive arguments? Stupid is not emotive? Do you have any evidence to back up your message that it's stupid? Pot, meet kettle. "Stupid" is a qualitative evaluation, but not emotional. I don't feel emotional about my evaluation. Tell you what, better you stick to asking obtuse questions and saying nothing yourself, it keeps foot out of mouth. I was accused of that on the immigration discussion thread, and I came back with a core believe I have ... met with silence. I'm sorry to ask questions of people who post ridiculous hyperbole, or hoary ideas we've seen 1000 times. I'll be glad to provide a set of training wheels to posters who don't want to be criticized. Maybe we can suggest a 'play pen' type area where people can bleat their ideas without any response from troublesome liberals. There sure seems to be an appetite for such a thing. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
punked Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Would you please repeat that - or better still, say something comprehensible and meaningful - in ENGLISH? Let us try again. Fact there are plenty of countries which have a higher debt to GDP ratio then anyone in the PIGS. Why do people lend money to these countries (because that is the problem of Europe no one will lend these people money). When we start t ask the question of what the real problem is we get a much more complex answer. One which you have shown time and time again you have very little understanding of, because of this you try to make simple answers out of complicated problems. Once you do that is easy to get from your wrong answer to a complex problem and say that problem is now a problem in every country. Funny thing is no evidence supports what you are saying. Again the problem right now is (with PIGS) no one will lend money. In America however they have more people borrowing then they did 10 years ago. Their interest rates on 10 year bonds are at the lowest they have ever been something like 2%. It is quite obvious when we look at the numbers and what the markets are doing (investing in America) that you are wrong about them. Quote
Guest Manny Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 I'm sorry to ask questions of people who post ridiculous hyperbole, or hoary ideas we've seen 1000 times. I'll be glad to provide a set of training wheels to posters who don't want to be criticized. Maybe we can suggest a 'play pen' type area where people can bleat their ideas without any response from troublesome liberals. There sure seems to be an appetite for such a thing. Ever consider that what is ridiculous to you, is actually important to other people? Is it just possible that you don't understand them, and by this misunderstanding you take a stance calling what they say "stupid"? It's possible. Tell me how that promotes respectful, intelligent debate. But if you won't see that, and continue to insist that only your views are valid, giving you the exclusive right to call other views ridiculous hyperbole, tiresome, we need training wheels, we are bleating sheep, well! You're just as much a part of the problem around here as anyone else who does that. Thanks for facilitating. Quote
Guest Manny Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Anyway, don't want you to feel I'm "picking on you" today, just would like to see your feet touch the ground a bit more. Yes you are imperfect, Michael Hardner. Hard for a humanist to believe, I guess. Movin on... Quote
Yukon Jack Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 Let us try again. Fact there are plenty of countries which have a higher debt to GDP ratio then anyone in the PIGS. Why do people lend money to these countries (because that is the problem of Europe no one will lend these people money). When we start t ask the question of what the real problem is we get a much more complex answer. One which you have shown time and time again you have very little understanding of, because of this you try to make simple answers out of complicated problems. Once you do that is easy to get from your wrong answer to a complex problem and say that problem is now a problem in every country. Funny thing is no evidence supports what you are saying. Again the problem right now is (with PIGS) no one will lend money. In America however they have more people borrowing then they did 10 years ago. Their interest rates on 10 year bonds are at the lowest they have ever been something like 2%. It is quite obvious when we look at the numbers and what the markets are doing (investing in America) that you are wrong about them. There are times when the numbers of the present are overwhelmed by historical precedence. Kind of like when my brother-in-law asked me for a loan and I replied: Will you pay me back and he said: You know me, to which I replied: That`s why I`m asking you. The history and honesty of the above mentioned loan-defaulting nations is widely and justifiably known. If you put America in their category, it reflects more on your being disinformed and misinformed than mine. Unless you want to persue this further, let us just leave it right there! Quote
jbg Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 "The atomic stupidity of his message" as you put it is what some people, apparently lots of people, believe in. So yeah, you did do that. I'm not sure what the term "atomic stupidity" means. Is it different from "molecular stupidity"? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
punked Posted February 5, 2012 Report Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) There are times when the numbers of the present are overwhelmed by historical precedence. Kind of like when my brother-in-law asked me for a loan and I replied: Will you pay me back and he said: You know me, to which I replied: That`s why I`m asking you. The history and honesty of the above mentioned loan-defaulting nations is widely and justifiably known. If you put America in their category, it reflects more on your being disinformed and misinformed than mine. Unless you want to persue this further, let us just leave it right there! You lending your brother money is so much different then the Macro economics of the world. To even and try to make that argument you are only showing how little you know and why you are wrong. That was my point all along you don't understand or even have a base understanding of the world economy. It is nothing like your relationship with your brother. I am sorry. As for Loan defaulting you really think the richest nation in the world who taxes people who make a million or more at 15% is going to default? If they needed to tomorrow America could balance their budget. It is honestly that easy for them, problem is the argument is how you do while maintaining what they have and keep the country growing. They aren't Spain, they aren't Ireland they are America and to even compare them with PIGS is pure simpleness. I get it though it is the best argument you have "DON'T BE GREECE". Well guess what they aren't., Edited February 5, 2012 by punked Quote
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