OCCUPY

[jbg]

We no longer subject people with mental illness to involuntary institutionalization, but the money saved when the institutions were emptied in the 1980's never found its way into community supports for them - eg, supported housing. Instead they are left on their own to die, and their deaths don't even make news ... unless some politicians want to use them to score political points.

Who's mentally ill here?

The whole f'ng system!!

This post makes me question your mental illness or lack thereof.

[Guest Derek L]

Too successful. The OLA's incorporation into the Canadian Charter of No Rights and Special Pleadings?

I don’t know if I’d go that far……at the time the OLA and the inclusion of the French language made sense……Thirty years ago, those of British Isles decent numbered around ~35% of the population, well those of French decent, stood around the same ~35%…….On paper, the inclusion of protection of the French language/culture was every bit as viable as the English one…..I think you could go back to the Plains of Abraham to find the start of the English sense of “fair play” when dealing with the portion of the population of French heritage……Whether it was a good policy and has proved effective, that should be another debate……

[Guest Derek L]

Nixon was about as much political panderer as you could get. He was a disgrace to our country.

Ronald Reagan accomplished far more and built rather than nearly destroyed the conservative movement and the Republican Party.

Though I agree to an extent, in that yes, Nixon was his own worst enemy and a rat, if in a what-if world, Watergate had never have happened, would history have judged him so poorly?

[Guest Derek L]

Several people at the protest site said the woman died of a drug overdose and heckled Robertson to provide more funding for addiction services and the homeless.

He told them the city has an outreach worker for the homeless and anyone at the site who doesn't have a home can be accommodated.

I've said this several times, but it bears repeating:

The homeless and discarded Canadians, mostly addicts and mentally ill people, who are flocking to the OCCUPY sites all across the country ... if they'd rather live in tents without facilities than the streets and shelters ...

WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THE COMPASSION AND SERVICES AVAILABLE TO THEM?

In Ontario - not sure about other provinces - since the Harris days, addicts/alcoholics - who often are diagnosed with mental illness as well - are cut off disability AND welfare. How the hell are they supposed to live?

They're not. The 1%'rs who ruled Harris' government want to ignore their existence - make them go away - die in a back alley somewhere no one can see them.

If OCCUPY inadvertently shines a light on the discarded people of Canada, that's an accomplishment in itself.

We no longer subject people with mental illness to involuntary institutionalization, but the money saved when the institutions were emptied in the 1980's never found its way into community supports for them - eg, supported housing. Instead they are left on their own to die, and their deaths don't even make news ... unless some politicians want to use them to score political points.

Who's mentally ill here?

The whole f'ng system!!

Are you suggesting that we should lock-up the mentally ill in puzzle factories? Three squares, all their meds and an unlimited supply of paper clothing…..

[Boges]

Are you suggesting that we should lock-up the mentally ill in puzzle factories? Three squares, all their meds and an unlimited supply of paper clothing…..

That seems to me what she's implying. Of course if they forced homeless people into homeless shelters and/or institutions the same people would cry bloody murder about that.

In Toronto the homeless industry is huge. I'm sure if there were no homeless, then a lot of people would be unemployed.

[cybercoma]

Nobody make any giant leaps in logic to wondering why we don't address why the mentally ill are homeless in the first place. They're sick, yet they're casted away. There's myriad solutions between leaving them homeless to fend for themselves and locking them all up in asylums (and let's throw sterilizing them in there for the eugenics crowd of the same era).

[Guest Derek L]

That seems to me what she's implying. Of course if they forced homeless people into homeless shelters and/or institutions the same people would cry bloody murder about that.

In Toronto the homeless industry is huge. I'm sure if there were no homeless, then a lot of people would be unemployed.

Every year in the Lower Mainland, we hear news stories when the weather get bad (relative term, not like TO) and emergency shelters are set up across the downtown Eastside, many of the mentality ill refuse to go into the shelters……Though I support fully the right of the individual, like dealing with children, I question if we as society should not take their best physical interests into consideration and in fact institutionalize those that are unable to rationally care for themselves. It’s a tough question…..should they be allowed to self dispense their meds and live on the streets or locked up and taken care of……tough question, with no real black or white answer.

[BC_chick]

I thought legalized and government-provided needles were supposed to prevent this.

Well, actually, no. Places like insite were supposed to provide a supervised environment for drug users but obviously people will still use drugs outside of the premises and there will be overdoses.

Secondly, the clean needles were supposed to reduce the spread of HIV which would further cost the health-care system.

In any case, I don't recall anyone saying insite will "prevent" overdoses all together. I'm not sure where you got that impression.

[jacee]

What makes you say the movement has broad support?

Google "Occupy donations"

http://www.google.ca/m/search?hl=en&tbs=nws%3A1&aq=f&oq=&aqi=-k0d0t0&fkt=4936&fsdt=9924&cqt=&rst=&htf=&his=&maction=&q=occupy+donations

All of the OCCUPY sites have found it necessary to open cedit union accounts for money donations, some of which are not full-time occupations yet.

- OCCUPY Vancouver needs its extra tents to store donated goods

- OCCUPY Edmonton is buying $3,000 army tents for the winter

- OCCUPY Toronto ... well I'm sure you've heard about the yurts, generators, heaters and rented commercial kitchen, volunteer help in the kitchen ... and that's just for starters. IN ROB FORD'S territory

- OCCUPY London UK is getting 1-$2000 A DAY in donations ... and you will recall London as the site of severe rioting and looting (and blatant operation of the 'underground economy' in the streets earlier this year, and that is not deterring supporters.

- OCCUPY New York ... where to start ... Here's one example, the businesses of Ithaca NY are sending truckloads ...

Stefan Senders of Wide Awake Bakery, who organized the donations, said he felt that supporting the movement was the right thing to do.“Our bakery has a reason for being, and part of it is to do what we think is right, and this seemed like the right thing to do,” Senders said.

...

“When we started calling, the level of support we saw was staggering,” he said. “Everyone we talked to was behind it, and their donations were incredibly generous. No one said to me‘Well, I would, but I can’t afford it.’ They just said, ‘Yeah, let’s do it.’”

Heather Sandford, owner of The Piggery, a local butcher shop and deli, sent water and soda because it was her only shelf stable product. Sandford said she wanted to show her appreciation for the work the protesters have been putting in.

“We’ve been following the movement closely, and we definitely identify ourselves as part of the 99 percent,” Sandford said.“We’re thankful for the courage, commitment and time that people are putting in to demonstrate the values that are important to us.”

Donn Hewes, the owner of Northland Sheep Dairy, donated a three-pound wheel of cheese. Hewes said he donated because he agrees with the protesters’ ideas of systemic change.

“We need a broader scale of systemic change, and that’s something that you can’t really accomplish through voting,” Hewes said. “We need to vote, but we need to think outside the box about how we can change the system that we have today.

http://theithacan.org/17597/

And an interesting note ...

Occupy in red states/blue states: The anti-Wall Street protest movement gnores party lines as demonstrations spread to all 50 states

Edited November 6, 2011 by jacee

[WWWTT]

Get your facts straight when slamming Americans...this incident did not involve an American soldier...it was South Vietnam's national chief of police, and it was an American photographer who won a Pulitzer for the reporting. Does Canada "celebrate" photos of the Somalia Affair with equal significance?

Thank you for the correction.

I was not trying to "slam" US soldiers as you are "assuming".Simple error in memory on my part.

I was making a point about the media.

And the US use to be real good at reporting the facts,what the hell went wrong?

WWWTT

[Shwa]

I don't know if I would characterize it as 'changing the rules' as much as not thinking it through. I like when the rules change in such a way as to respond to challenges. The big challenge today is that the masses don't pay attention to protests, and are ambivalent towards them.

Well the masses media is sure paying attention to them now aren't they? Little groups of people getting attention from major, national media outlets. Not bad for a first crack at the old not-thinking-it-through strategy.

This new approach may address the first challenge, but for the second challenge - I think it will turn the public against them.

Not as long as any can say they have the right for peaceful assembly and association.

I'm not really complaining about the change in strategy (if that's what you want to call it) - I just don't like it.

Of course you don't. Gramps didn't like all them dang hippie protesters neither.

[bush_cheney2004]

Thank you for the correction.

You're welcome, but it would have come anyway.

I was not trying to "slam" US soldiers as you are "assuming".Simple error in memory on my part.

No error on my part in recalling the incident....I was very much alive when it was reported in American media.

I was making a point about the media.

And the US use to be real good at reporting the facts,what the hell went wrong?

Sorry if the Americans no longer satisfy all of your journalism needs. Try doing it yourself for a change. You cannot experience these things vicariously from Canada...wanabees never do.

Edited November 6, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[jacee]

Ordinary Americans including its youth have finally realized who their enemy really is: the Wall Street banksters and executives, hence their movement Occupy Wall Street.

Really good background article.

[bush_cheney2004]

Though I agree to an extent, in that yes, Nixon was his own worst enemy and a rat, if in a what-if world, Watergate had never have happened, would history have judged him so poorly?

No, and Watergate can't change what Nixon meant in his time. Nixon mattered at many different levels, had "gravitas", and shook his world with American power. Lastly, he had the decency and honor to resign his office in disgrace.

[bush_cheney2004]

Really good background article.

Yes...for the United States...as usual.

[WWWTT]

I don't understand... that last sentence.

I believe the 1% clearly understand this protest is against them and the tax shelters,subsidies,grants,etc,etc that they receive.Aswell I believe OCCUPY is also protesting the different levels of government for allowing/blind eye this to continue(conservatives).

Many politicaly planted in the centre also approve/believe current large corporate policies(liberal,democrat).This would align them against OCCUPY.

WWWTT

[jacee]

This post makes me question your mental illness or lack thereof.

That's a pretty disgusting tactic jbg.

Do you wish to explain or defend this?

[jacee]

Are you suggesting that we should lock-up the mentally ill in puzzle factories? Three squares, all their meds and an unlimited supply of paper clothing…..

I said "supported housing", not lockup, and your ignorant and derogatory attitude toward mental illness is noted.

Ask the police ... they'll tell you how often they take mentally ill people to lockup just to protect them. The police have become the new frontline workers in the mental health field.

Edited November 6, 2011 by jacee

[WWWTT]

During the 50s ? The big change came in the 1960s with protests and the living room war coming through on national television.

Do you have an example other than wikileaks ? Wikileaks was able to publish information that was secret, which is a different threshold than uncensored. There is lots of uncensored information in our world, such as this board.

What is 'the media' ? Do you really mean television ?

They don't have a specific objective that I've heard of, so they should start with communicating that perhaps.

I believe(not sure of exact dates) that there was media coverage about anti black policies from the southern US in the 50's.That would fit into the scenario that I was describing.

I am sorry I can not produce other examples other than wikileaks at this time.

However wikileaks has somehow bein able to establish itself as a "reliable" source.Quite the acheivment for a soley internet news source.

Television in my opinion is still the king of media.They have the greatest impact on the masses(a picture is worth 1,00 words) but there is also radio and newspaper to a lesser degree.Unless of couse there is a widespread power blackout.

And the other point you want me to detail is the media attention/lack of properly communicating.

I believe in my opinion the media is also part of the 1%!So the media may not even bother trying to convey OCCUPY message.

An excellent related issue would be OCCUPY Hollywood and the overvalued amount many acters receive!I don't believe you will see many actors or DIVAS supporting OCCUPY any time soon(conflict of interest)!

WWWTT

[bush_cheney2004]

...I believe in my opinion the media is also part of the 1%!So the media may not even bother trying to convey OCCUPY message.

An excellent related issue would be OCCUPY Hollywood and the overvalued amount many acters receive!I don't believe you will see many actors or DIVAS supporting OCCUPY any time soon(conflict of interest)!

Are you joking? Not only are you clueless about the role of American media, you have conveniently forgotten (or never knew) how it has specifically taken on such issues many times in the past. Whatsa matter...forgotten about Michael Moore so soon?

[jacee]

US deja vu ...

Both parties were alarmed by this motley assemblage and its political rallies; the Secret Service infiltrated its ranks to root out radicals. But a good Communist was hard to find. The men were mostly middle-class patriotic Americans. They kept their improvised hovels clean and maintained small gardens. Even so, good behavior by the Bonus Army did not prevent the U.S. Army’s hotheaded chief of staff, General Douglas MacArthur, from summoning an overwhelming force to evict it from Pennsylvania Avenue late that July. After assaulting the veterans and thousands of onlookers with tear gas, ­MacArthur’s troops crossed the bridge and burned down the encampment.

http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/class-war-2011-10/

Edited November 6, 2011 by jacee

[WWWTT]

Sorry if the Americans no longer satisfy all of your journalism needs. Try doing it yourself for a change. You cannot experience these things vicariously from Canada...wanabees never do.

Your really starting to tick me off budy with your "USA is the centre of the world attitude" man.Can we get back to the topic we are discussing or am I going to have to report you every freekin time you troll!

Thankyou!

WWWTT

[bush_cheney2004]

Your really starting to tick me off budy with your "USA is the centre of the world attitude" man.Can we get back to the topic we are discussing or am I going to have to report you every freekin time you troll!

Thankyou!

I would love to, but you are singularly focused on what has happened in the US. This thread is OCCUPY in the Canadian Politics area, is it not? Do you have any Canadian based references or input?

What do you think American media owes you, and why?

[bush_cheney2004]

US deja vu ...

See what I mean....US media is not just a substitute for what is lacking in Canada....it is the defacto media experience.

With just a little effort, Canadian experiences with protest and riot are easily found. But it is just so much easier to parrot back the American experience.

Edited November 6, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[WWWTT]

I would love to, but you are singularly focused on what has happened in the US. This thread is OCCUPY in the Canadian Politics area, is it not? Do you have any Canadian based references or input?

What do you think American media owes you, and why?

I am not interested in discussing any issues with you any longer!

I will not respond to any future comments you make.

WWWTT