Boges Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 OK fine it was legal. So was Harper's tactic of telling them to take 2 months off and chill. Worked cuz they put Iggy in charge, they backed down and now the Liberals are in bit trouble. Quote
Shwa Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 OK fine it was legal. So was Harper's tactic of telling them to take 2 months off and chill. Worked cuz they put Iggy in charge, they backed down and now the Liberals are in bit trouble. I am not questioning the legality of it. Admit that it is also democratic and you might have a point. Unless you are sticking to a coalition, formed as a result of a non-confidence vote in Parliament, is anti-democratic. Quote
olp1fan Posted October 12, 2011 Author Report Posted October 12, 2011 This one would have been. Not mention was ever made of it in the election campaign previously. proroguing parliament could be considered undemocratic too but i bet you disagree with that Quote
Wilber Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 This one would have been. Not mention was ever made of it in the election campaign previously. They never are. No party is going to go into an election campaigning to be a loser who will need another party to form government. Coalitions come about as a result of elections, not the other way around. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Boges Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 proroguing parliament could be considered undemocratic too but i bet you disagree with that But it's Legal. I know the coalition would have been legal but to think that a doofus like Stephan Dion could be PM when he was so clearly rebuked by much of Canada seemed so fundamentally wrong, not just to me but to many in Canada. The CPC was sky high in the polls post coup attempt ERRRR coalition talks. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 13, 2011 Report Posted October 13, 2011 I think he's implying that Canada should have a Coup d'etats because he hates the Harper Government. The attempted takeover by the Liberals/NDP/Bloc in 2008 seemed kinda Coupish to me. A coup by definition is extra-legal (or more pointedly illegal). So please explain how a perfectly legitimate constitutional maneuver like Parliament picking a new government is in any way like a coup? I would love you to elaborate. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 13, 2011 Report Posted October 13, 2011 Yeah OK Yet No mention was made of even considering a coalition during the election about a month earlier. Only when the Harper government wanted to yank their funding did they want to take over the government. Which is completely irrelevant. Coupe d'etats involve the unlawful seizing of power by unrecognized individuals or organizations from a lawfully-recognized power. In our constitution, Parliament decides who governs, and thus nothing about the proposed coalition was unlawful. Why don't you try learning something about our constitution before you make completely erroneous statements. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 13, 2011 Report Posted October 13, 2011 But it's Legal. I know the coalition would have been legal but to think that a doofus like Stephan Dion could be PM when he was so clearly rebuked by much of Canada seemed so fundamentally wrong, not just to me but to many in Canada. The CPC was sky high in the polls post coup attempt ERRRR coalition talks. This is all irrelevant. You associated a lawful, constitutional exercise of Parliament's absolute power over the government as being like a coup. It wasn't, not even a little bit. I can certainly agree that the proposed coalition was a bad idea, but nothing, not even a little bit, was like a coup. That was a falsehood spread by Tory supporters, either out of ignorance or just out of plain dishonesty. Quote
jbg Posted October 13, 2011 Report Posted October 13, 2011 Coalitions come about as a result of elections, not the other way around. Or as a way of undoing the result of an election. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted October 13, 2011 Report Posted October 13, 2011 A coup by definition is extra-legal (or more pointedly illegal). So please explain how a perfectly legitimate constitutional maneuver like Parliament picking a new government is in any way like a coup? I would love you to elaborate. In the 2008 incident the CPC had measurably increased the strength of its minority in the Parliament. A coalition is "coup-ish" since, for example, a habitual Liberal voter might get an NDP minister in the Cabinet ministry most important to him. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jacee Posted October 13, 2011 Report Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) This one would have been. Not mention was ever made of it in the election campaign previously. irrelevant. You want an election for every decision? Stuff happens between elections. It's legitimate. It's up to the party in power to maintain the confidence of the house between elections, or they're toast.Winning an election provides an opportunity to form a government, not a guarantee of success. Edited October 13, 2011 by jacee Quote
jacee Posted October 13, 2011 Report Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) In the 2008 incident the CPC had measurably increased the strength of its minority in the Parliament. A coalition is "coup-ish" since, for example, a habitual Liberal voter might get an NDP minister in the Cabinet ministry most important to him. Do you have a vote in Canada jbg? It's coup-nothing and if you don't vote here you are out of line and flirting with illegal promoting such ignorance about our system and possibly trying to influence votes. Edited October 13, 2011 by jacee Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Posted October 13, 2011 Do you have a vote in Canada jbg? It's coup-nothing and if you don't vote here you are out of line and flirting with illegal promoting such ignorance about our system and possibly trying to influence votes. Really? Why doesn't that "rule" apply to US politics and elections? Can you vote in the USA? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
ToadBrother Posted October 13, 2011 Report Posted October 13, 2011 In the 2008 incident the CPC had measurably increased the strength of its minority in the Parliament. A coalition is "coup-ish" since, for example, a habitual Liberal voter might get an NDP minister in the Cabinet ministry most important to him. It wasn't even coup-ish. Parliament has the absolute authority over the Government and can defeat the government as it sees fit, and can submit itself to the Governor General. Quote
jbg Posted October 13, 2011 Report Posted October 13, 2011 Do you have a vote in Canada jbg? It's coup-nothing and if you don't vote here you are out of line and flirting with illegal promoting such ignorance about our system and possibly trying to influence votes. I can read and write. Enough said. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
fellowtraveller Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 They never are. No party is going to go into an election campaigning to be a loser who will need another party to form government. Coalitions come about as a result of elections, not the other way around. Not true. Layton was quite clear he would form a 'cooperative' after the last election if the Tories had a minority. I suspect that helped Harper considerably. Quote The government should do something.
fellowtraveller Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 Winning an election provides an opportunity to form a government,Yes, for up to a few weeks as in 2008, when the losers decided that the govt policy on political funding gravythe economy meant that the country was in immediate grave danger. Quote The government should do something.
eyeball Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 Talk of a coup in "the west" is a bit ridiculous when all you have to do is get off your ass and cast a ballot to change the gov't. Way easier than picking up a pitchfork and invading Parliament Hill. Getting enough people excited about performing a coup might be a bit of a challenge. That only changes who governs us not how they govern us. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
The_Squid Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 That only changes who governs us not how they govern us. Then vote for people who will change how we are governed.... Quote
g_bambino Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 Or as a way of undoing the result of an election. It was precicely because of the results of the election that the opposition held the influence it did over who would hold the confidence of the House. Quote
GostHacked Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 Then vote for people who will change how we are governed.... They tried that in the USA, and got Obama. Quote
The_Squid Posted October 18, 2011 Report Posted October 18, 2011 They tried that in the USA, and got Obama. If only it were so simple.... especially in the USA where they have 3 equal levels of government. Quote
eyeball Posted October 19, 2011 Report Posted October 19, 2011 Then vote for people who will change how we are governed.... Been there done that and I'm loath to invest anymore hope of ever seeing my vote make any difference whatsoever in the current scheme of things. I hope for more realistic things to precipitate change, like an asteroid falling on Ottawa. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
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