Saudi's Making Progress on Women's Rights

[bud]

The Arab world is, culturally, roughly where the western world was about 800 years ago, at the start of the inquisition. We can only hope it doesn't take them 800 years to catch up.

there is no question that there is a significant cultural gap in some arab countries. but 800 years ago? really now.

not to mention the problem with your generalization. you cannot compare saudi arabia's culture to that of lebanese culture. they're both arab, but they're very different. even egypt and saudi are much different as far as their culture and laws.

you should avoid these blanket statements and generalizations. because when you do it, you end up canceling any other valid point you may have made.

by the way, ever compare the treatment of women in the ultra orthodox jewish communities in israel to that of saudi arabian fundemental wahhabist communities?

[Oleg Bach]

True, but at least it's a step.

There is no step - this is appeasement - to keep the oil money coming in..they will still maintain their dungeons and torture mills - but just a little more secretive than before.

[jbg]

by the way, ever compare the treatment of women in the ultra orthodox jewish communities in israel to that of saudi arabian fundemental wahhabist communities?

The only difference is that most non-ultra-Orthodox Jews disown those. And likewise. The problem is that the Wahabists are subsidizing madrassa elsewhere.

[Oleg Bach]

If there is one group of people that should suffer the thrones of human hate it is the Saudi - elite...I personally can not stand looking at these weasils with their trimmed little stashes..and their gluttonous bellies that they hide under their robes....and they are so spoiled that rapping little boys wearing heavey make up and wigs is considered a sport...TO HELL with them....worms...with money - Anyone who respects these people is crimminally minded.

[Moonlight Graham]

There is no step - this is appeasement - to keep the oil money coming in..they will still maintain their dungeons and torture mills - but just a little more secretive than before.

May well indeed be so.

[Moonlight Graham]

My Mom and three sisters and I were talking about it last night and reiterating how unbelievable it is that a king in this day and age should be "praised" for not allowing a woman to be lashed for driving.

Well, he didn't have to do it. And in this day and age is all relative according to culture, right? For a Saudi King he's been acting quite progressively lately towards women's rights. He deserves our encouragement IMO. Then again, I don't know what else he's been up to this month.

[August1991]

It's a bit easier to manage one's affairs when one has a much smaller population to consider/deal with.

Please, AW, don't condescend to me.

I hate it when one American tells me that I am unimportant. Well, in the grand scheme of things, you as a single American are unimportant too. We're all just individuals.

BTW, when Canadians confronted secession and organized two democratic referenda, we had a population of about 20-30 million. In 1860, the US ppulation was about 30 million too. And in 1860, the US was no more of a world power than Canada in 1980 was. In fact, the US was less of a world power since Americans had done nothing for anyone. (By 1960, Canadian soldiers were buried all across Europe and Asia.)

BTW, Saudi Arabia has a few million people.

It's so difficult for me to understand the whole 'women as second class citizens' mentality. My Mom and three sisters and I were talking about it last night and reiterating how unbelievable it is that a king in this day and age should be "praised" for not allowing a woman to be lashed for driving.

If "your day of age" had been 1855, whipping was perfectly accepted in the US but not in Canada.

not to mention the problem with your generalization. you cannot compare saudi arabia's culture to that of lebanese culture. they're both arab, but they're very different. even egypt and saudi are much different as far as their culture and laws.

You make a good point, bud.

The Saud family takeover of the Arabian peninsula would have been irrelevant to the world, like Idi Amin in Uganda, except there is oil in Arabia - and then Saddam invaded Kuwait.

IMV, the Saud family's control of the peninsula and its decision to adopt Wahabite "principles" are far from secure.

----

This reminds me of Nicholas II creating a Duma in 1905. I would prefer to see it as a good start, and not "too little too late". But I'm a Canadian.

Edited October 3, 2011 by August1991

[Guest American Woman]

Please, AW, don't condescend to me.

I hate it when one American tells me that I am unimportant. Well, in the grand scheme of things, you as a single American are unimportant too. We're all just individuals.

If your ego feels as if my post was condescending, that's your problem. Fact is, I never thought I was important - so that's your projection, based on where you are coming from. I simply stated the truth. It IS easier to manage smaller populations than it is a larger. Why do you think the big cities in both of our nations have more problems, more homeless, more poor, more crime than the smaller cities do? (And by "more" I'm not talking simple statistics). And it is a fact that Canada was settled by people who wanted to remain loyal to the crown. It's not a big surprise that they didn't revolt against Britain like Americans did - nor does it speak of your 'peace loving ways.' It speaks of your loyalty to the crown.

[August1991]

It's a bit easier to manage one's affairs when one has a much smaller population to consider/deal with. As Canada is getting more diverse, Canada is dealing with more problems. It's just within relatively recent history that you've had "differing religions and languages" to deal with. Canada was settled in no small degree by people who wanted to be/chose to be loyal to the crown.

WTF? Only a condescending American could post such nonsense.

If your ego feels as if my post was condescending, that's your problem. Fact is, I never thought I was important - so that's your projection, based on where you are coming from. I simply stated the truth. It IS easier to manage smaller populations than it is a larger.

Sure. Sri Lanka, Lebanon and Ireland are easier than, say, Poland in the 21st century.

Let me be more direct: You Americans have yet to be successful in creating a functioning multi-racial/multi-cultural State - although you are doing well. We Canadians have been doing it for over 200 years. (I would prefer a different way but we Canadians usually solve these differences peacefully - and that sometimes takes time.)

Why do you think the big cities in both of our nations have more problems, more homeless, more poor, more crime than the smaller cities do?

Do they? As bad as Montreal is, it's no Detroit. Then again, Detroit has a larger population than, say, Saskatoon.

And it is a fact that Canada was settled by people who wanted to remain loyal to the crown. It's not a big surprise that they didn't revolt against Britain like Americans did - nor does it speak of your 'peace loving ways.' It speaks of your loyalty to the crown.

Me? Loyal to a Crown? Revolt against Britain?

Canada's origins had different sources.

-----

Returning to the intent of this thread, I suggest that you rent/download Shirley Valentine, AW. I suspect that many women in Saudi Arabia do this through bittorrent. From what I've heard, it's available with Arabic subtitles.

Edited October 7, 2011 by August1991

[DogOnPorch]

Je me souviens...eh?

[Guest American Woman]

oops! wrong country. Deleted.

Edited October 10, 2011 by American Woman

[jbg]

Update here (link) on Arab human rights advances.

[Wild Bill]

Je me souviens...eh?

Yep! Few remember the next part of the poem, though. It says that while "I was born under the lily, I flourished under the rose!"

The lily of course is the flower of France, just as the rose refers to Britain.

[DogOnPorch]

Yes...untouched by the Revolution. Heads remained on shoulders.

[jbg]

Yes...untouched by the Revolution. Heads remained on shoulders.

You need to refer to the OP. The Saudis are rapidly becoming an enlightened and progressive part of the world.

[DogOnPorch]

You need to refer to the OP. The Saudis are rapidly becoming an enlightened and progressive part of the world.

Everyday I thank the powers that be for all the wonderful life-saving inovations brought forth by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia...like...well...like...hmmmmmmmm...give me a minute.

[jbg]

Everyday I thank the powers that be for all the wonderful life-saving inovations brought forth by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia...like...well...like...hmmmmmmmm...give me a minute.

They pioneered the ability to fly directly to Lower Manhattan. Avoids traffic on the Belt Parkway or the Holland Tunnel.

[DogOnPorch]

They pioneered the ability to fly directly to Lower Manhattan. Avoids traffic on the Belt Parkway or the Holland Tunnel.

That is true. Quite the time-saver from Newark to Lower Manhattan...plus, it prompted folks to stretch, get out of their cars and flee to Queens. Good exercise.

[bush_cheney2004]

In 1860, the US ppulation was about 30 million too. And in 1860, the US was no more of a world power than Canada in 1980 was. In fact, the US was less of a world power since Americans had done nothing for anyone. (By 1960, Canadian soldiers were buried all across Europe and Asia.)

Patently false....see "Monroe Doctrine". By 1860, the US had established itself as the reigning power in the hemisphere...just ask Mexico. Canada was still a "colony". By 1960, far more Americans were buried across Europe and Asia.

Any nation that has to invent the word "multicultural" to satisfy Quebec obviously wasn't.

Edited January 18, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[jbg]

Patently false....see "Monroe Doctrine". By 1860, the US had established itself as the reigning power in the hemisphere...just ask Mexico. Canada was still a "colony". By 1960, far more Americans were buried across Europe and Asia.

Your reading of August's post is false and fraudulent. What he was saying was that in 1860 the U.S. was not a factor overseas, which was, by and large true. In 1980 Canada had been and was a player on the world stage. Canada punched far above its weight in WW I and WW II. In WW I the U.S.'s reluctance to be involved was understandable; in WW II it was craven and cowardly. Aside from the recent dimout over Iraq Canada's role in the world has always been admirable. And yes, I am a proud American.

Any nation that has to invent the word "multicultural" to satisfy Quebec obviously wasn't.

Multiculturalism was invented to move over more recent immigrants to the Liberal column. Bi-bi was invented for Quebec. Learn your Canadian history.