Saudi Enlightenment Condemns Witchcraft & Sorcery

[jbg]

Saudi Arabia is fast moving from being a backwards desert backwater to being an enlightened font of progress. Witchcraft and sorcery contributed to the darkening of Europe during the Middle Ages and until Salem, Massachusetts' witch trials threatened to derail progress in the United States.

Saudi Arabia is now taking up the cudgels against witchcraft. This past week Saudi Arabia gave a fair and impartial trial to a women in her 60's and executed her on "charges of witchcraft and sorcery". Link to story, excerpts below:

Saudi Arabia execution of 'sorcery' woman condemned

Saudi authorities have been condemned by Amnesty International for executing a woman convicted of practicing magic and sorcery.

Amnesty International confirmed that Saudi national Amina bin Salem Nasser was executed on Monday in the northern province of al-Jawf on charges of "witchcraft and sorcery"

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"The charges of 'witchcraft and sorcery' are not defined as crimes in Saudi Arabia", said Philip Luther, Amnesty's interim director of the Middle East and North Africa.

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"While we don't know the details of the acts which the authorities accused Amina of committing, the charge of sorcery has often been used in Saudi Arabia to punish people, generally after unfair trials, for exercising their right to freedom of speech or religion," Luther said.

Where I differ from Amnesty International is that I assume that the trial was utterly fair and objective.

I have had other occasions to admire the desert kingdom as a progressive force in the world:

1. Saudi's Making Progress on Women's Rights Lashes for Female Driving Cancelled; and
   
2. Progress in Penal Methods - Equal and Public Punishments
   

While the country is not perfect, it is a guiding light to the world.

[eyeball]

While the country is not perfect, it is a guiding light to the world.

I guess that explains why your country has been walking hand in hand down the garden path with it all these years.

[jbg]

I guess that explains why your country has been walking hand in hand down the garden path with it all these years.

Well, I express my admiration, on balance, for the Saudi system.

[Guest American Woman]

I guess that explains why your country has been walking hand in hand down the garden path with it all these years.

And the reason your country has been would be ... ??

Perhaps you'd be so kind as to enlighten me.

[Guest Manny]

No one in their right mind should defend them. But then we should not use their extremism to condemn muslims at large. Each case must be judged by its particulars.

Having said that however how can we tolerate our governments doing business with countries like Saudi Arabia, and China as well as others who do not recognize human rights anything close to what we do, without insisting that they engage in reforms? Are we just whores for the money to them? Yes we are whores for the money to them. That us how they must view us, and that is also why people around the world do not believe our government when we say we are fighting for democracy in some country because we believe in democracy, and human and womens rights in that country. We accomplish nothing but further hardship for them, by the use of such violent force.

Case in point is the recent trial of a woman in Afghanistan who was raped, and when she got pregnant from the rape she was sentenced to years in JAIL. Now Karzai, under intense pressure steps in and frees her, under the condition that she must marry the rapist. And he has the nerve to tell the west in a speech that we should not worry about Afghanistan after the troops pull out, they will make sure that justice and fairness prevails! These are the laws and attitudes in Afghanistan, and if you think she was just an isolated case, BS.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Manny

[Guest American Woman]

No one in their right mind should defend them. But then we should not use their extremism to condemn muslims at large. Each case must be judged by its particulars.

I don't think the intent of the OP was to condemn Muslims at large. Islamic nations, however, do not have a real good track record.

Having said that however how can we tolerate our governments doing business with countries like Saudi Arabia, and China as well as others who do not recognize human rights anything close to what we do, without insisting that they engage in reforms? Are we just whores for the money to them? Yes we are.

Perhaps we are; but the thing is, if we don't do business with them, we hurt a lot of the population too, who benefit/profit from our business. Seems to me we would hurt a lot of innocent people by refusing to do business, just as the Iraqi population at large was hurt by the sanctions. Furthermore, to not do business with such countries isolates them completely, which makes it even easier for them to get away with human rights abuses. By doing business with them, at least there is some outside influence.

That us how they view us, and that is partly why people around the world do not believe our government when we say we are fighting for democracy in some country because we believe in democracy, and human and womens rights in that country.

I'm sure that's how they view us in part, but such countries have also caved in to world opinion. If it weren't for "doing business" with them, I'm not so sure we would be seeing what we have seen in regards pardoning/withdrawing lashes/etc.

As for other countries not believing us - which countries would those be?

Case in point is the recent trial of a woman in Afghanistan who was raped, and when she got pregnant from the rape she was sentenced to years in JAIL. Now Karzai, under intense pressure steps in and frees her, under the condition that she must marry the rapist.

So she was freed due to "intense pressure." It may not have brought the best results, but it's a beginning, right? What would happen if there was no pressure?

And he has the nerve to tell the west in a speech that we should not worry about Afghanistan after the troops pull out, they will make sure that justice and fairness prevails! These are the laws and attitudes in Afghanistan, and if you think she was just an isolated case, BS.

I doubt if this was an isolated case, which to me, is all the more reason we shouldn't isolate the country to do as it pleases with no outside "pressure."

[eyeball]

And the reason your country has been would be ... ??

Perhaps you'd be so kind as to enlighten me.

The same as your's.

[eyeball]

I have little doubt the outside influence we bring to backward countries moves them forward it's just that we should never lose sight of the fact that this is a two way street and we need to be on guard against the drag it produces on our own progress.

The proverbial race to the economic bottom comes to mind not to mention the erosion of our hard won human and environmental rights.

[jbg]

No one in their right mind should defend them. But then we should not use their extremism to condemn muslims at large. Each case must be judged by its particulars.

I have said over and over again I admire Islam.

Having said that however how can we tolerate our governments doing business with countries like Saudi Arabia, and China as well as others who do not recognize human rights anything close to what we do, without insisting that they engage in reforms? Are we just whores for the money to them? Yes we are whores for the money to them. That us how they must view us, and that is also why people around the world do not believe our government when we say we are fighting for democracy in some country because we believe in democracy, and human and womens rights in that country. We accomplish nothing but further hardship for them, by the use of such violent force.

Unfortunately our record in that area is not good. We (meaning American and I assume Canadian companies) were doing business with Hitler long into the war. And if the world were serious about this kind of stuff bank deposits from the likes of Mugabe and Iran's leadership would be frozen. As would the deposits from Pakistani and Russian despots. They're just barely getting around to ferreting out Madoff's money in Switzerland and I fear that's largely cosmetic.

If I had my way there would be a lot fewer wealthy wrongdoers in the world.

Case in point is the recent trial of a woman in Afghanistan who was raped, and when she got pregnant from the rape she was sentenced to years in JAIL. Now Karzai, under intense pressure steps in and frees her, under the condition that she must marry the rapist. And he has the nerve to tell the west in a speech that we should not worry about Afghanistan after the troops pull out, they will make sure that justice and fairness prevails! These are the laws and attitudes in Afghanistan, and if you think she was just an isolated case, BS.

This is an example of human progress. Rabble would approve.

[Guest American Woman]

Case in point is the recent trial of a woman in Afghanistan who was raped, and when she got pregnant from the rape she was sentenced to years in JAIL. Now Karzai, under intense pressure steps in and frees her, under the condition that she must marry the rapist.

She doesn't have to marry her rapist; she was freed without condition.

Her lawyer told the BBC that she was released without precondition, dispelling fears that she may have to marry her attacker.

According to her lawyer:

"She is now free to lead a normal life without the threat of further legal action," she said.

"I hope this historic case will set a legal precedent for other persecuted women in Afghanistan.

"I would like to pay tribute to President Karzai and the Afghan justice ministries for taking the measures required to win her freedom."

Ms Motley said that Gulnaz is at present "coming to terms with her future" but she is free to marry whoever she wanted in future.

link

Let's hope this does set a precedent for the future.

[jbg]

She doesn't have to marry her rapist; she was freed without condition.

I thought maybe they came to a Zen-like reconciliation.

[olp1fan]

governments and business people do not care who they get their money from as long as they get it

[jbg]

governments and business people do not care who they get their money from as long as they get it

What does that have to do with the Muslim world's majestic progress towards modernization?

[eyeball]

What does that have to do with the Muslim world's majestic progress towards modernization?

Nothing so long as the money keeps flowing. Why, do you think money should be an issue where human rights aren't progressing?

I know I do.