punked Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 An industry which provides a service. It does not produce or deliver goods. That is arguable but the point remains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 That is arguable but the point remains.What point? That crown corporations can function in heavily regulated environments where a natural monopoly exists? That is not much of an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted October 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 A take-or-leave it offer is still a attempt to follow the law and negotiate changes to obligations. BTW just because a corporation has contractual obligations that does not automatically means that those obligations are just. In other words: they are NEGOTIATING. What exactly is the problem? BTW: you have not answered the question: what would have happened to those 9000 pensioners if Stelco went bankrupt and its assets were sold off? Until you answer that question you really have no business complaining about US Steel's negotiating position. "Too big to fail." Bankruptcy ... irrelevant. USSTEAL bought it of its own free will. Nobody forced them to. Nobody forced them to sign a contract with the feds (not with the union) agreeing to respect obligations to elderly pensioners. USSTEAL agreed of their own free will. Now they are reneging ... on pensioners too old to work who don't have a union vote any more. Defend the crooks if you like TimG. Doesn't surprise me at all that you would. Birds of a feather ... I'm done with this discussion with you. I have nothing left to say to you that is within board rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 What point? That crown corporations can function in heavily regulated environments where a natural monopoly exists? That is not much of an argument. It sure is. It is an argument which is true in the face of the privatize everything movement so many believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Looks like the mayor of New York has finally had enough of the protests too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 It sure is. It is an argument which is true in the face of the privatize everything movement so many believe.You are arguing a strawman. This particular discussion was about how modern society is completely dependent on the output of corporations. Not whether all things could be done by a corporation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted October 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 You are arguing a strawman. This particular discussion was about how modern society is completely dependent on the output of corporations. Not whether all things could be done by a corporation. Then I guess we'd better be willing to step up and identify and modify when they are doing things wrong. No corporation operates in a vacuum. They need input, feedback. They are not infallible and the public has the right/responsibility to identify problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted October 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Looks like the mayor of New York has finally had enough of the protests too. Irrelevant. It's just beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Bankruptcy ... irrelevant.Yes it is relevant. It is intended to remind you that those pensioners would lost a lot more if Stelco when bankrupt therefore US Steel is did them a favor by talking over the company.Nobody forced them to. Nobody forced them to sign a contract with the feds (not with the union) agreeing to respect obligations to elderly pensioners.They signed a deal to protect jobs and the government is suing them for their failure live up to that deal. The lockout is a perfectly legimate negotiating tactic that has no bearing on the jobs deal.Frankly, what you fail to understand that the real failure was the union who years ago negotiated a deal where the pensions paid to retired workers affect the cash flow of the company. The union should have negotioted a deal that kept the pension plan seperate from the company but the union was too greedy - getting that kind of deal would have required wage concessions. Edited October 8, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Do you suggest they manufacture their own laptops and shit in the streets? They could do without the laptops - that would be a more effective protest, not to buy from the corporation they are protesting - and they could use public restrooms. Or follow this guy's lead ........ Real impressive way to make a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Irrelevant. It's just beginning. Yep, the beginning of the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted October 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) AP: Wall Street Protest becoming more organized Pelosi supports Occupy Wall Street Occupy Wall Street: major protest against minority rule The “Occupy” movement has gained such momentum even the president, who promised change, has been forced to address the issue." I think people are frustrated, and the protesters are giving voice to a more broad-based frustration about how our financial system works,” Barack Obama told a press conference. “ Americans understand that not everybody has been following the rules; that Wall Street is an example of that that.” “These days, a lot of folks who are doing the right thing aren’t rewarded, and a lot of folks who aren’t doing the right thing are rewarded," he added. Occupy Wall Street protests spread ... "We will be in a thousand cities in this country by the end of the month - hundreds of cities in other countries. We will see General Assemblies on six continents," read a post on the movement's website today. Politicians are speaking in support, Democrats and Republicans. This is growing and gaining support. Government gets the message. Do the banks? Using the bank bailout money for executive bonuses was a stupid, arrogant thing to do, and they are gonna pay, imo. What a breath of fresh air, hope for real change. Edited October 9, 2011 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maple_leafs182 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 We don't live in a capitalistic society...if we did then GM, Chrysler, Goldman Sachs and a bunch of other companies would be nothing but a distant memory, this isn't capitalism. I have no idea why you guys refuse to look at the monetary system, it has such a huge impact on our society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 ...Do the banks? Using the bank bailout money for executive bonuses was a stupid, arrogant thing to do, and they are gonna pay, imo. What a breath of fresh air, hope for real change. NO...the government actually made money on TARP...just like the banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) ...I have no idea why you guys refuse to look at the monetary system, it has such a huge impact on our society. Because I like it just the way it is. "Our society" doesn't belong to you. "Money cannot buy true love or happiness, but lack of money will sure as hell make you miserable" - Suze Orman Edited October 9, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted October 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 "The law is very clear - if you go and block traffic, you're going to get arrested. The law is not so clear if you're a rating agency and you inflate ratings in order to get more business." http://m.cbsnews.com/fullstory.rbml;jsessionid=Ez1kygQ84gy7VvuxrS2xqA**?feed_id=0&catid=20117634&videofeed=36&emvcc=0&emvAD=320x397 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted October 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 They could do without the laptops - that would be a more effective protest, not to buy from the corporation they are protesting [/Quote] Yes I guess you'd prefer that they not communicate to the world. and they could use public restrooms. Or follow this guy's lead ........ dailymail.uk ... mhmm ... now a link showing that this is in any way related to the protests in NY please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Yes I guess you'd prefer that they not communicate to the world. I don't "prefer" anything. I couldn't care less what they do or don't do. But if they need the products from the very corporations that they are protesting in order to "communicate," I doubt they're sending the message that they hope/think they are. dailymail.uk ... mhmm ... now a link showing that this is in any way related to the protests in NY please. This are the shocking scenes that have led some people to accuse the Occupy Wall Street protesters living rough in New York's financial district of creating unsanitary and filthy conditions. Exclusive pictures obtained by Mail Online show one demonstrator relieving himself on a police car. Note the photos of the trash, also. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046586/Occupy-Wall-Street-Shocking-photos-protester-defecating-POLICE-CAR.html#ixzz1aHEdqoRh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 I don't "prefer" anything. I couldn't care less what they do or don't do. But if they need the products from the very corporations that they are protesting in order to "communicate," I doubt they're sending the message that they hope/think they are. I know very well from the Internet that you have to abstain from using ALL products that might pollute if you have ever taken any interest in improving the environment, otherwise you are a terrible hypocrite. Now you also have to abstain from using all "corporate" products if you want to criticize corporations? Do you have to abstain from using all government services if you want to criticize government too? Or is that hypocrisy okay because FoxNews never mentions it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 I know very well from the Internet that you have to abstain from using ALL products that might pollute if you have ever taken any interest in improving the environment, otherwise you are a terrible hypocrite. Now you also have to abstain from using all "corporate" products if you want to criticize corporations? Do you have to abstain from using all government services if you want to criticize government too? Or is that hypocrisy okay because FoxNews never mentions it? It would help not to be exploiting the products of the corporations they are protesting - which was my point. I wasn't saying it was hypocrisy - I was saying it's counter-productive. So I'm afraid you'll have to direct your questions elsewhere since they are totally irrelevant to what I've said - and I never watch Fox News. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Just as the rich corporate white collar'd criminal gets off with a slap on the wrist while the poor gets 15 yrs hard time. The uprising continues to bloom.. Occupy New Brunswick is in da house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted October 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Paying for failure ... With 14 million Americans unemployed, more people are paying attention to CEO pay packages. The unemployment rate has been over 9 per cent since April 2009, but CEOs continue to collect multi- million dollar payouts, even as their companies deliver lack- luster returns to shareholders. So far this year 38 companies have had their executive pay plans flat-out rejected by shareholders. Although these votes are non-binding, they still serve as a barometer for shareholders' attitudes. Even though many investors are frustrated with executive pay packages, firing CEOs can be an expensive option. http://mobile.nj.com/advnj/pm_29225/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=uMUceuxT Corporate greed isn’t confined to the banks as the Institute for Policy Studies notes in its examination of something called, innocently enough, WIN America. WIN America is a corporate campaign for a“tax holiday” on profits earned abroad — money, it argues, which, if brought home at a reduced tax rate, would create jobs here. Sounds good, until checked against the history of the last corporate “tax holiday” in 2004. It cost the treasury $92 billion, the IPS contends, and instead of creating jobs, 58 of the corporate winners “shed almost 600,000 jobs after their tax holiday tax break.” Who’d have guessed? ... But what the demonstrators want — an end to the perversion of our politics by big money— is a cure that can’t be made any time soon, and certainly not by just reining in the banks and corporations The root of the problem is the U.S. Supreme Court. In a truly stupefying decision, it opened wide the floodgates to political money by ruling that money has free speech rights in politics — almost no holds barred — and that corporations are individuals. Only a change in the court can cure that malady. The Wall Street protests are giving opinion columnists a lot to talk about, and ideas are flying. "Remove corporate personhood" was an early focus. It will be interesting to see what they have to say in Canada. Edited October 9, 2011 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 They need to take their protest to Washington where actual laws can be changed. If that's their ultimate goal. Protesting in New York does nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Occupy New Brunswick is in da house For what reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Stay classy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA_84Qkyp-I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.