Canada's political system vs. US political system

[sammykp]

If we had an elected senate, would we have the same impasses that we see in the U.S. political system?

Good article at yahoo.com about this:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/u-debt-ceiling-impasse-exposes-benefits-canada-parliamentary-152937537.html

[bush_cheney2004]

If we had an elected senate, would we have the same impasses that we see in the U.S. political system?

See Australia...which has an elected Senate in a hybrid Westminster system.

The American system is functioning just as it was designed, with real checks and balances to limit government actions.

[TimG]

See Australia...which has an elected Senate in a hybrid Westminster system.

You mean the Australia where the Green party with 2 seats holds the balance of power and is forcing the government to impose policies opposed by the overwhelming majority of Australians?

That said, a lot of people forget that the US government was designed to make it very difficult to pass legislation because the people who wrote the constitution did not want a strong central government.

Edited July 29, 2011 by TimG

[Remiel]

The American system is functioning just as it was designed, with real checks and balances to limit government actions.

I think you could argue that at the current time the American system is checked but not balanced...

[bush_cheney2004]

...That said, a lot of people forget that the US government was designed to make it very difficult to pass legislation because the people who wrote the constitution did not want a strong central government.

Thank you for reminding them.

[Remiel]

Thank you for reminding them.

Tim is correct, but I do not think that the situation at hand is one of strong vs. weak federal government. In a sense, it takes a very strong central government to take the country down the path of insolvency despite evidence that this would be uttely ruinous.

[nittanylionstorm07]

It just depends on how you set up the system.

For the most part, the Senate is an equal-in-power to the HoR in the US. Combine that with the fact that due to the current extreme polarization of politics in the US, the filibuster in the Senate has been abused to the point where everything needs at least 60 votes to pass... and it is no wonder why our system is so unbelievably screwed up.

The best bet for Canada, especially since you have a Westminster system, is to have a Senate that simply serves as a check on the House of Commons, helps to approve Supreme Court justice picks, etc. All budgetary matters would be left to the HoC, but the Senate could debate non-budgetary matters, foreign treaties, etc.

[bush_cheney2004]

Tim is correct, but I do not think that the situation at hand is one of strong vs. weak federal government. In a sense, it takes a very strong central government to take the country down the path of insolvency despite evidence that this would be uttely ruinous.

Still not convinced....Canada actually went into the abyss (1990's) with bond rating downgrades and a "Canadian peso" before taking action....all without a "screwed up" American system. The Americans will figure it out too in their own way.

[Boges]

The Senate in both countries is stupid.

It's useless in Canada. And in America it allows senators in states from buttfack nowhere to have the same power as people from important states like Florida, Texas, California and New York.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Boges

[bush_cheney2004]

The Senate in both countries is a stupid.

Is a stupid....what?

It's useless in Canada. And in America it allows senators in states from buttfack nowhere to have the same power as people from important states like Florida, Texas, California and New York.

It's not for Canada....the Americans had to write a constitution for a new republic....notably and specifically without help from mother Britain.

[bloodyminded]

Both systems are prone to certain problems. But every set-up is. There are no exceptions.

Yes, I know, it's an elementary truism. But still.

Edited July 29, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Guest American Woman]

It's useless in Canada. And in America it allows senators in states from buttfack nowhere to have the same power as people from important states like Florida, Texas, California and New York.

That senators in states from "buttfack nowhere" have the same power as "important" states like Florida, Texas, California, and New York is based on the idea that all of the states in the union are equally important and therefore should be equally represented. That more populous states have more representatives than less populous states is based on the idea that people should all be equally represented. The two balance each other out, giving fair representation. Sounds good to me.

Edited July 29, 2011 by American Woman

[Tilter]

You mean the Australia where the Green party with 2 seats holds the balance of power and is forcing the government to impose policies opposed by the overwhelming majority of Australians?

That said, a lot of people forget that the US government was designed to make it very difficult to pass legislation because the people who wrote the constitution did not want a strong central government.

Yeah, just like the Canadian senate sleepers were blocking the legislation passed by the HOC simply because the libs had a majority in the senate & the bills weren't proposerd by the libs in the HOC.

[dre]

Both the Canadian and US political systems are among the best in the world. The problem is that special interests have just gotten really good at gaming the system, and the cost of competing results in the policians owing so many favors to all these special interests that they dont even appear to be serving the voters.

A few things need to be fixed, but both systems are comparable and have worked pretty well in relative terms.

[Bonam]

The one thing I instinctively like more about the US political system is that the individuals elected as representatives (congressmen and senators) actually matter and can make decisions and have some influence. In the Canadian system, individual MPs are nothing more than automatons that vote as their party leader tells them to.

[TimG]

In the Canadian system, individual MPs are nothing more than automatons that vote as their party leader tells them to.

Ironically, this is a direct result of attempts to make the election of the leaders more 'democratic' by allowing all party members a say. In other westminster democracies the PM serves at the pleasure of the MPs which means they have a lot more say in what goes on.

[Oleg Bach]

I think you could argue that at the current time the American system is checked but not balanced...

Can you be a cocktail waitress and end up the next day sitting as a congress person? NOPE - in Canada you can.

[pinko]

The element missing in these discussions is corrupting nature of powerful lobby groups with vast finnacial resources. How independent are these Members of Congress when they are beholding to monied interests for their continued place in public office?

The American model is showing itself to be a model of gridlock.

[Sandy MacNab]

I think you could argue that at the current time the American system is checked but not balanced...

They're 'checking' all right - think of the dirtiest hockey game you've every seen and the 'checking' isn't nearly as vicious. And, they certainly are not balanced ..mentally. It's frightening. Those so-called statesmen are not doing a damned thing for their country. Instead they are making the US look foolish.

In Canadian terms, I'm a very conservative person. But, I see those on Fox News a bunch of maniacs who give conservatives a bad name. They are either entertainers or, if sincere, insane.

Obama is the worst President they've had in my lifetime. If he represents American liberalism... God help us.

American politics has become a joke, but not funny.

The only segment of Canadian society that is as goofy are the politically correct.

[dre]

The element missing in these discussions is corrupting nature of powerful lobby groups with vast finnacial resources. How independent are these Members of Congress when they are beholding to monied interests for their continued place in public office?

The American model is showing itself to be a model of gridlock.

I dont think its really the American MODEL itself that causes that. Political systems degrade in effectiveness over time because special interests find way to game them. The problem in the US is elections are so long and so expensive. Politicians have traded so many promises for money by the time they make it into office that no longer represent their constituents.

Both the Canadian and American systems are vulnerable to this kind of thing, and just because some of this stuff isnt as big of a problem up here yet doesnt it mean it wont be at some point.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Obama is the worst President they've had in my lifetime. If he represents American liberalism... God help us.

Why? You live in Canada...right?

American politics has become a joke, but not funny.

Well....Canadian politics is a joke too but very funny....but the difference is that most Americans don't know, don't care, and don't care that they don't know what happens in Canada.

Edited July 31, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Oleg Bach]

Why? You live in Canada...right?

Well....Canadian politics is a joke too but very funny....but the difference is that most Americans don't know, don't care, and don't care that they don't know what happens in Canada.

The Queen is no figure head..she is the head of one of the most powerful mulit-national corporations on earth - and one of the oldest - don't mess with this lady...to para phrase here "You are messing with forces beyound your comprehension" - Nice was of saying -I'm not some old lady in a nice house - I am a female mafia chief..the kind of which makes Capititalist America and Corporate Islam take heed.

[bush_cheney2004]

...to para phrase here "You are messing with forces beyound your comprehension" - Nice was of saying -I'm not some old lady in a nice house - I am a female mafia chief..the kind of which makes Capititalist America and Corporate Islam take heed.

Well, she couldn't do much for your pal Conrad Black. Maybe the old girl is slipping.....

[Moonbox]

Well....Canadian politics is a joke too but very funny....but the difference is that most Americans don't know, don't care, and don't care that they don't know what happens in Canada.

The majority of Americans never leave the country, even once, for their whole lives. In fact, a good number of them never even leave their home counties. What does that tell you?

[M.Dancer]

The majority of Americans never leave the country, even once, for their whole lives. In fact, a good number of them never even leave their home counties. What does that tell you?

That the rates for passport holder in Canada and the US are not vastly different.

Also, Americans are much more likely to want to see their own nation than Canadians theirs.

Sad to say, I know too many people who would rather visit the Alps than the Rockies