The bravest person in Canada

[ReeferMadness]

I see the hypocrisy runs as thick as ever around here.

The Prime Minister tars our international reputation, poisons the political environment, politicizes the office of the Governor General, hides from Parliament, withholds information from Parliament, spends years running US-style attack ads, breaks electoral laws, breaks a fixed election date law that he enacted, uses public money for partisan purposes, runs a corrupt, scandal-ridden government after promising to clean up government and is actually found in contempt of Parliament. Apparently nobody fucking cares because the guy is still there.

But a young woman dares to use a brief "time in the sun" moment provided by a glorified gopher job to make a personal statement and this is contempt of Parliament??

Geez, what pettiness. What hypocrisy.

[bush_cheney2004]

Meh...not so brave...she is still alive. Rachel Corrie isn't.

[Evening Star]

Both have shown contempt for Parliament. It's possible to oppose Harper's policies and also think that there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to protest them.

I see the hypocrisy runs as thick as ever around here.

The Prime Minister tars our international reputation, poisons the political environment, politicizes the office of the Governor General, hides from Parliament, withholds information from Parliament, spends years running US-style attack ads, breaks electoral laws, breaks a fixed election date law that he enacted, uses public money for partisan purposes, runs a corrupt, scandal-ridden government after promising to clean up government and is actually found in contempt of Parliament. Apparently nobody fucking cares because the guy is still there.

But a young woman dares to use a brief "time in the sun" moment provided by a glorified gopher job to make a personal statement and this is contempt of Parliament??

Geez, what pettiness. What hypocrisy.

[Keepitsimple]

Fwiw, I'm one NDP voter who thinks this was a juvenile gesture and an abuse of a page's position.

I might be in the minority though, judging by this thread.

You're only in the minority among some of the boneheads who've posted in this thread. A diversity of opinions is expected - and respected on this board most of the time. But this mis-guided juvenile (to use your term) interrupted an important Canadian institutional tradition - one which lays out the general blueprint for our country. It was shameful and goes beyond disrespectful - publicly inciting civil disobedience against a democratically elected government. If spanking was still permitted, this immature, naive girl's parents should haul out the wooden spoon.

One can only wonder how her previous job at the Canadian Center for Policy Alternatives influenced her thinking. The CCPA is a recognized far Left think tank that runs counter to all things Conservative. Hopefully, this young lady is just an abberation and not demonstrative of this organization being a Left Wing Madrassa.

Edited June 4, 2011 by Keepitsimple

[Michael Hardner]

The politicized Left doesn't believe in stuff like that. Whatever furthers the cause against 'the man' is fine by them.

What are the career prospects there ?

[Michael Hardner]

Fwiw, I'm one NDP voter who thinks this was a juvenile gesture and an abuse of a page's position.

I might be in the minority though, judging by this thread.

I concur, actually. I generally admire acts of conscience, but the timing and scale of this wasn't great.

[WWWTT]

What she did was to betray the trust put in her when she was hired, and explicitly understood by all.

Every comment that I have read of yours up until this one are completely relative to the view point of the commentator.

I chose this one to highlight because so many politicians have abused the trust given to them by the voters in Canada.

And somehow you feel that a 21 year old parliament page must adhere to a higher standard than that given any politician?

WWWTT

[CPCFTW]

Why does everyone keep bringing up the contempt of parliament of Harper's govt? Harper was fired for it. We just chose to re-hire him rather than elect a left wing loon know-it-all like this page.

[gretchenne]

What are the career prospects there ?

Not every job is related to some big company that exploits its employees.

And by the way, a lot of you say that her act was stupid and that she wronged Harper. but you probably didn't see some of her interviews where she states clearly that she's against the reforms the conservative party will be putting in place for the next 4 years. Not Harper... But what he represents as the leader of the conservative party.

[Topaz]

Why does everyone keep bringing up the contempt of parliament of Harper's govt? Harper was fired for it. We just chose to re-hire him rather than elect a left wing loon know-it-all like this page.

Some of those that did vote for the Tories may be on the unemployment line very soon too. Cut backs in the government is coming and already Environment Canada and the Bank of Canada have people lining up for EI. If this continues don't you think at this page won't be the only one saying "stop harper". Sure they have to cut back but lets look at the Tory government. It costing Canadains big bucks to pay all these guys then there the pensions down the road. Why should taxpayers, who have find themselves out of a job, pay $3-4.00 for everyone $1 for the MP's pensions, that NOT right!!

[pegasus]

Each year, 15 individuals are chosen from hundreds of youth through a national competition to work as a Page for the Senate of Canada. Pages are primarily responsible for assisting Senators and table officers throughout sittings of the Senate by fulfilling various requests as well as those of various dignitaries, Supreme Court Justices, the Prime Minister, and the Governor General when visiting the Senate. Pages are responsible for numerous tasks in relation to Chamber and Committee duties such as: distribution of files and documents, relaying messages, and administrative and procedural duties. Pages attend to and assist with the proceedings of notable events such as Royal Assent, Speech from the Throne, and State Visits. They also share their experiences with youth participating in various National outreach programs such as Forum for Young Canadians and Encounters With Canada, and work to improve the Senate Page Program itself.

Pages are remunerated $11,807 divided in 26 equal instalments. Furthermore, upon satisfactory completion of their contract, they will receive an additional amount of $1,200. The Deputy Chief Page is remunerated $18,816. The Chief Page is remunerated $20,347. Furthermore, upon satisfactory completion of their contract, they will receive an additional amount of $1,200.

The Senate will pay the cost of travel between the Pages' place of permanent residence and Ottawa, by the most economical means possible, at the beginning and at the end of their contract.

While in Ottawa, Pages are responsible for the costs of their accommodation and for all other related expenses, including tuition fees, books, food, etc. The Senate could make arrangements to reserve rooms in the university residence for Pages upon request.

Years ago, when I applied to various universities during my final year of CEGEP, one of those universities was the University of Ottawa. I was accepted, but I chose not to attend that university, because I needed work. At the time, I was already working in Montreal as a fast food cook. I applied for the Page program and was completely ignored. So I remained in Montreal, where I was living, and attended Concordia instead. While attending university, I would have loved to have had this job, and it would have paid me twice as much as I earned cooking hot dogs and hamburgers for a living at 35 hours a week at 6$ an hour while attending school full-time.

I would have loved to have had such an opportunity that this young woman had, as I'm sure hundreds, if not thousands around Canada. I agree that as a Page one should have knowledge of the political landscape one is working in, and is actually questioned about such knowledge, however, a Page's personal political viewpoint should be left at the front door.

If Ms. DePape really had issues with Harper, she could have just as easily protested those outside of her working hours and not in uniform. Remember that this is a part-time job and I'm sure she had plenty of opportunity. This was just a media gimmick to gain attention, pure and simple, and whether she held a sign saying "Stop Layton", "Stop Rae" or "Stop May", I would be just as suspicious of her motives.

[Michael Hardner]

Not every job is related to some big company that exploits its employees.

My point was that she was limiting her options for the future, and I made it to give weight to the idea that this was not a selfish act.

[dre]

I would guess the death rate not from natural causes would be just a tad higher than it is in your job. Same with injuries, many which are life altering. I would say the emotional stress would be just a tad higher too. I wouldn't think there would be a high instance of PSTS involved with your job, or an inordinate number of suicides resulting from that stress. And I would guess that applies to the vast majority of other jobs. In fact, I would bet a year's salary on it.

There's a reason why a lot of society "glorifies" those jobs and it's because they are more dangerous and stressful than the vast majority - it's not because they were "conditioned" to feel that way. No one had to "condition" me to realize, for example, that a soldier going off to war is facing more danger than I am, than any one of my neighbors are.

---------------------------------------

It's ironic to me that the so often the same people who oppose war, often pointing out what a act of cowardice it is for our nations' leaders to put young peoples' lives at risk while they sit safely in their offices, are the ones who then turn around and say being a soldier isn't particularly dangerous or brave.

I'd say anyone who leaves the comfort of their home to actively partake in something they believe in - when there is a high risk of danger involved (and anyone who says there isn't a high risk of danger involved in a war zone needs a reality check) - is exhibiting bravery. Much more bravery than simply silently holding a sign in a place you were given the privilege of attending.

She didn't even crash her way onto the Senate floor. She simply decided to use the privilege she was granted to exhibit her displeasure with Harper. While gaining her 15 minutes of fame.

and anyone who says there isn't a high risk of danger involved in a war zone needs a reality check

That entirely depends on the war and war zone. In most modern wars the casualty rates are relatively low. Lower for example than they are for inner city convenience store clerks.

That doesnt mean some soldiers are not brave... clearly some are. And within the soldier superset theres numerous diferent subsets where the degree of danger is different. Infantrymen are much more likely to to be injured or killed for example. But the reasons why military idolitry is so rampant in our culture are really more cultural than anything else.

There's a reason why a lot of society "glorifies" those jobs and it's because they are more dangerous and stressful than the vast majority - it's not because they were "conditioned" to feel that way.

No thats not it. Society doesnt glorify deep sea fishermen, or foresters or miners even though those jobs are statistically more dangerous than being a police officer or a soldier.

Governments have an interest in the people worshipping their security apparatus, and they have managed to connect the extent to which people idolize the military to the extent to which they love their countries. "Support the troops!" has become a political hammer used to bludgeon political opponents of the way.

Military idolitry is an important tool for the government, and one that have carefully cultivated and nurtured.

It's ironic to me that the so often the same people who oppose war, often pointing out what a act of cowardice it is for our nations' leaders to put young peoples' lives at risk while they sit safely in their offices, are the ones who then turn around and say being a soldier isn't particularly dangerous or brave.

Thats all really special yeah... But really Im just a guy that actually dug up some stats instead of just accepting conventional wisdom. And from what I can tell the mortality rates for men and women in the army are actually comparable to the rest of the population.

[bush_cheney2004]

...That doesnt mean some soldiers are not brave... clearly some are. And within the soldier superset theres numerous diferent subsets where the degree of danger is different. Infantrymen are much more likely to to be injured or killed for example. But the reasons why military idolitry is so rampant in our culture are really more cultural than anything else.

Ya think?

Queen decorates Nepali

[kimmy]

She's probably a very nice person with a lot of idealism. I'm sure she'll be fine and will make her own way in life.

As for what she did... well, as Carolyn Bennett said, she could have done it out on the lawn. People have the right to free speech, but your employer doesn't have to permit your free speech when it's contrary to the duties your supposed to be performing.

Pretty brassy, but not heroic in my view.

The idea that she wants to start an "arab spring" ... huh. We had an election, and she didn't get the outcome she wanted... so it's time for a popular uprising? I wonder if she'd be equally supportive up a popular uprising led by crazy right-wing Jesus-freak types. Are popular uprisings always good, or only when they're led by people you agree with? The middle east needed their "arab spring" because those nations didn't have any better way of making the government reflect the peoples' wishes. We do; we just did it last month.

-k

[bjre]

.... because those nations didn't have any better way of making the government reflect the peoples' wishes. We do; we just did it last month.

-k

No, we don't.

1st, the media controlled by big interest groups give misleading information generation after generation, that affect vote significantly.

2nd, only the politicians tell lies will be elected like the one who tell people he will cut tax and said no one is able to do it after he was actually elected.

3rd, even if a politician has one or two opinion welcomed by most people, people are not able to fulfill their other wishes which are often the most important wishes, like

75 percent of the respondents were decidedly opposed to the implementation of the Ontario HST http://www.hstincanada.com/2009/12/ontarians-opposed-to-hst/

HST still become true. It is against most people's wish, but we have no way to prevent it from happening.

[Scotty]

What are the career prospects there ?

Well, apparently PSAC has already offered her a position. Dunno, but I expect, like most of them, she'll wind up working for some NGO, or university. And I doubt trying to embarrass the tories will be a detriment to her prospects there.

[Scotty]

Every comment that I have read of yours up until this one are completely relative to the view point of the commentator.

I chose this one to highlight because so many politicians have abused the trust given to them by the voters in Canada.

And somehow you feel that a 21 year old parliament page must adhere to a higher standard than that given any politician?

WWWTT

Are you under the illusion I respect and admire politicians?

I am Canadian enough, however, to strongly demand proper behaviour during public events.

[Scotty]

My point was that she was limiting her options for the future, and I made it to give weight to the idea that this was not a selfish act.

I am quite certain that at her age and with her current political views she would either have not considered that a possibility, or would simply say she wouldn't want to work for any company which was like that. I again think we're seeing a young woman who has never known want, and has no fears about money or jobs.

[Tilter]

My point was that she was limiting her options for the future, and I made it to give weight to the idea that this was not a selfish act.

Not selfish, STUPID

[Tilter]

My point was that she was limiting her options for the future, and I made it to give weight to the idea that this was not a selfish act.

Not selfish, career killing

Edited June 4, 2011 by Tilter

[Saipan]

Bridgette DePape is only 21 and has a huge heart of gold.

Her protest was peacefull and silent and effective.

I wish this young woman all the best and I hope what she has started gains steam and momentum!

WWWTT

Who's that? Like Bridgette Jones?

[ReeferMadness]

As for what she did... well, as Carolyn Bennett said, she could have done it out on the lawn. People have the right to free speech, but your employer doesn't have to permit your free speech when it's contrary to the duties your supposed to be performing.

Fuck that noise. Your right to free speech isn't subject to your employer's permission. That's what makes it a right. Her employer doesn't have to keep her employed but can't limit her freedom of expression. She exercised her right and she paid the price. I don't hear her whining about losing her job or the $1200 that (according to Pegasus) she would have received upon successful completion. She made a substantial material sacrifice to express a deep conviction. Anyone here who's done the same might be qualified to judge. The rest of you are armchair critics.

As far as doing it on the lawn, as you all well know, she probably would have been ignored. What made this newsworthy was that she was willing to do it in a way that would make it controversial and cost her something.

I don't get why people are so hung up over this "duties" thing. If she was a doctor and someone died because she didn't perform her duties, I could understand people being upset. But all she did was interrupt some pomp and ceremony. And I'll bet nobody here was even watching it.

The idea that she wants to start an "arab spring" ... huh. We had an election, and she didn't get the outcome she wanted... so it's time for a popular uprising? I wonder if she'd be equally supportive up a popular uprising led by crazy right-wing Jesus-freak types. Are popular uprisings always good, or only when they're led by people you agree with? The middle east needed their "arab spring" because those nations didn't have any better way of making the government reflect the peoples' wishes. We do; we just did it last month.

I guess that depends on what she meant by an "arab spring". Was she calling for violence? I doubt it. Maybe she wanted something more closely resembling real democracy. Maybe she just wants the 40 odd% of people who don't even bother exercising the most minimal element of democracy to get off their butts and go to the polls. Maybe she wants a voting system where the intent of the voters is accurately reflected in the actual outcome. Harper's knuckle-draggers received the votes of 40% of the 60% of the people who actually voted. That means he actually has the support of 25% of eligible voters but he has 100% of the power. Maybe she wants people to actually get involved and express their opinions of where our society is headed.

We had an election but that doesn't mean we have a democracy that functions well. Wouldn't it be nice if people took just half the time they devote to watching hockey and spent it becoming knowledgeable on what's going on in the world. Maybe then we could have a functioning democracy.

[Saipan]

No, we don't.

1st, the media controlled by big interest groups

As opposed to little unsucessful groups. And that is a good thing.

give misleading information generation after generation, that affect vote significantly.

When you see someone with better infomation vote for him. It's a FREE country.

2nd, only the politicians tell lies will be elected like the one who tell people he will cut tax and said no one is able to do it after he was actually elected.

Harper said he'll cut GST and when he actually started he couldn't even get majority first two elections. Many people choose rumours (of hidden agenda) over facts.

When Reform announced the golden parachute political pensions be put to vote to be removed they were solidly overvoted by the piggies at the trough. And laughed at by the liberal media. Who did YOU voted for then?

[cybercoma]

Her Arab Spring comments were pretty dumb.