The bravest person in Canada

g_bambino · June 8, 2011

I am not going to try to prove something that I have never claimed(monarchy being partisan).

Er...

Queen Elizabeth 2nd has publicly criticized Margaret Thatcher...

That would be a accusation of partisanship levelled against the Crown.

Dave_ON · June 8, 2011

Secondly do you really belive that the PM would give a lone page a private audience to discuss political direction?

WWWTT

I wasn't aware that was part of a senate pages responsibilities. That is to be a part of the Prime Minister of the Commons direct council. I also wasn't aware that Senate pages were afforded special access to the PM that ordinary citizens were not, or that they have the ability to express their personal political opinions on my dime. The sad thing in all this is I don't even really disagree with her statement about Mr. Harper. That's besides the point, there is a time and a place for dissent and the middle of the throne speech is not it., she abused her power and privileged access to the senate and what's worse has likely made life much more scrutinized and difficult for the pages that remain or even pages yet to come. She should be treated like any other political figure that is found in breech of their office or found to have abused their unique access. Perhaps Helena Gurgis would like to chime in on this?

Keepitsimple · June 8, 2011

How about Emily Wilding Davison's protest in an attempt to get the vote for women? I'm sure that wasn't the time and place for a protest either, but it was effective. That's the point. Do something suprising to jar people out of their status quo stupor.

The people just finished doing that - breaking out of the "status quo". In spite of all the predictions that the Conservatives would be held to a minimum, the people decided to give them a comfortable majority. And look at the NDP in Quebec. And look at the decimation of the Bloc and Liberals. If that's not jarring the status quo, I don't know what is. I guess for some people - like the little BubbleHead page, democracy doesn't work when it doesn't give them the results they want.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Keepitsimple

cybercoma · June 8, 2011

I wasn't aware that was part of a senate pages responsibilities. That is to be a part of the Prime Minister of the Commons direct council. I also wasn't aware that Senate pages were afforded special access to the PM that ordinary citizens were not, or that they have the ability to express their personal political opinions on my dime. The sad thing in all this is I don't even really disagree with her statement about Mr. Harper. That's besides the point, there is a time and a place for dissent and the middle of the throne speech is not it., she abused her power and privileged access to the senate and what's worse has likely made life much more scrutinized and difficult for the pages that remain or even pages yet to come. She should be treated like any other political figure that is found in breech of their office or found to have abused their unique access. Perhaps Helena Gurgis would like to chime in on this?

Maybe they could fire the page... oh wait.

I don't understand this "there's a time and a place for dissent" crap. She didn't hurt anyone. She stood there silently with a sign in a time and at a place that would shock people out of their daily stupor. It was unexpected precisely because she is not allowed to do what she did. She went against the rules, knowing full well she would lose her job and possibly worse, to stand up for issues that she believes in, as outlined in her statement to the press. If you agree with her message, I don't exactly see the problem with her delivery. Absolutely it was against the rules of her position, but that's the best part. It got everyone's attention. I don't believe in the notion that protests ought to be done at a particular time and place. The entire point of protest is to get people's attention and hopefully jolt them out of their status quo living.

I'm not saying that protestors shouldn't be arrested for doing illegal things and if they have a case against Brigette and choose to take it to court, they should. Part of the process of dissent is facing the consequences for your actions. Her being brought to trial and possibly facing a jail term would be poetic. Stephen Harper's government is found in contempt of Parliament and he gets a majority mandate a couple months later. A lowly young, female page is found in contempt of Parliament for silently holding a sign during the throne speech and she gets run through the courts and put in jail. This is the beauty of protest. Facing the consequences for your actions and trying to get your message out regardless.

cybercoma · June 8, 2011

The people just finished doing that - breaking out of the "status quo". In spite of all the predictions that the Conservatives would be held to a minimum, the people decided to give them a comfortable majority. And look at the NDP in Quebec. And look at the decimation of the Bloc and Liberals. If that's not jarring the status quo, I don't know what is. I guess for some people - like the little BubbleHead page, democracy doesn't work when it doesn't give them the results they want.

What's jarring is that a mere 10% difference in votes gave the Conservatives 50% more seats than the NDP. That's hardly a break from the status quo. It's an indication that our electoral system is a pile of crap.

Shady · June 8, 2011

I don't think she's just the bravest Canadian. She might be the greatest Canadian, like ever. She's more brave than the bravest of our soldiers in harms way. She's more brave than an abused wife standing up to her abusive husband. And she's definitely more brave than a kid standing up to a bullying kid in the playground. I mean, come on. She had a piece of paper and a marker! :rolleyes:

Keepitsimple · June 8, 2011

What's jarring is that a mere 10% difference in votes gave the Conservatives 50% more seats than the NDP. That's hardly a break from the status quo. It's an indication that our electoral system is a pile of crap.

As you've already been told:

To hell with the fact that conservatives won 48% of the vote outside of Quebec compared to 26.6% for the ndp and 20.7% for the liberals.

It's fantastic that the NDP - representing a Federalist Party - did so well in Quebec.....but don't make it out to be anything more than what it is.

cybercoma · June 8, 2011

I'm just stating the facts. I think they speak for themselves and I don't believe that it's a partisan issue at all. Politicians should be working towards a more fair system of representation, but it's never going to happen. The only way it will happen is if Canadians take to the streets and demand it.

mikedavid00 · June 8, 2011

Politicians should be working towards a more fair system of representation, but it's never going to happen.

I think the system was designed for two parties. Or was it designed for no parties at all. Can't remember.

I feel that people in a few cities (half of which are immigrants) shouldn't determine the gov't for the whole country. I believe in an electoral college system.

Suppose 1 out of 10 provinces or states.

1 province decides they want to elect some voodoo party.

They would only get 10% of the house.

They couldn't control HALF of the house or determine the outcome of the whole house of commons.

Despite there being 1/3rd of our population in our big cities. They all have the same things in common - they are immigrant, low income, and want gov't handouts and socialism. These people are what are taking over our whole house of commons. While they are very densly populated in a few areas, they do NOT represent the rest of Canada and should not 'hijack' the house of commons with their needs and wants.

The FIRST DAY back in session in Parliment and you know what is on the NDP's mind? A private members bill to stop electronic fences!! lol no seriously! The cruel electronic fences need to be BANNED! Who gets effected by this? FARMERS and rural Canadians (ya know, almost half of the whole country).

This is where the imbalance is in Canada. It's rural vs urban.

This is why there needs to be a Rural Party Of Canada. People in rural communities are getting abused by our political system and it's gone on for too long. They can't even go on their own boats now without a 'boating license?'

Why? because idiots from Toronto get drunk, rent boats, don't know how to swim, fall over the boat, drown, and then their local Liberal politicians representing Toronto center bring the issue to the hill and demand for licenses and tougher this and that. Who does it effect? All the rural Canadians. The long gun registry is the same thing. We have rural Canadians all over Canada who are now criminals because they haven't reported their long guns at home. Harper knows this and needs to scrap the registry because people in the gun community know that only 30% of long guns have been reported to big brother.

Preston Manning in my opinion was the greatest political figure (greatest in a good way) to happen to Canada. He was over the head of most Canadians. He wanted to give Canadians rights to property, to defend themselves, etc. He did want a change of political representation, a flat tax. He didn't believe in family sponsorship. He wanted 2 teir healthcare. He wanted a small civil service.

He wanted to make a Canada where you could be whatever you wanted to be in the gov't wouldn't be in your way.

Now, we have a police state and immigrants deciding who is in power and who is not. They are the real trump cards. We have a state where you can't do anything anymore. You can't have a cigarette in a park or restaurant. You can't open a small business. You can't go fishing or hunting anymore. You can't buy a firearm and go plinking cans. You can't hung on your own property anymore, you can't talk on the phone while driving, you can't use lawn pesticide on your own property, you can't buy a couple of pitchers of beer at a restaurant with a friend. You can't get a decent wage anymore (in the private sector), you can't just enter a program and go into higher learning anymore without a perfect GPA.

The Liberals and inner city people destroyed Canada and taken away all of our freedoms. Preston Manning was the last hope.

The Rural Party Of Canada. I like it.

g_bambino · June 8, 2011

I don't understand this "there's a time and a place for dissent" crap. She didn't hurt anyone.

Because the opposite is: dissent is okay always, everywhere. I doubt you've considered the ramifications of that, however. If your neighbour didn't like your choice of colour for your house, would you accomodate his expression of dissent taking place in your bedroom at 3am?

Saipan · June 8, 2011

I'm just stating the facts. I think they speak for themselves and I don't believe that it's a partisan issue at all. Politicians should be working towards a more fair system of representation

Like in USA?

RNG · June 8, 2011

I'm just stating the facts. I think they speak for themselves and I don't believe that it's a partisan issue at all. Politicians should be working towards a more fair system of representation, but it's never going to happen. The only way it will happen is if Canadians take to the streets and demand it.

Seriously, it's like education and policing. We all criticize it to some extent or other, but do you have any positive suggestions? I am not happy with any representational system I have seen advocated. What is your solution?

WWWTT · June 9, 2011

The Rural Party Of Canada. I like it.

Why don't you just start a thread with this part of your quote as the title.

Oh by the way I will be going to China next week for my wifes immigration interview.

I'm going to be slappin a hot Chinese ass every night for the rest of my life buddy!

But at least you still have CPACE and Sun TV.

WWWTT

Jack Weber · June 9, 2011

I would complain to them, not here. Calling them names isn't helpful here or there.

Have you ever tried to reason with ideologues???

At Bedwetter.ca,all you will get called is a "neo-con asshole" and told that it is a "progressive" site and one should read the rules...

I can only call these types "bedwetters" because of their infantile thought processes...

Saipan · June 9, 2011

I'm going to be slappin a hot Chinese ass every night for the rest of my life buddy!

Hot till she get her own business here.

You'll be just one of the thousands

Edited June 9, 2011 by Saipan

Michael Hardner · June 9, 2011

Have you ever tried to reason with ideologues???

Yes I have.

Now, how about stopping the insults ? It uglies up the argument and makes the moderators sad.

Jack Weber · June 9, 2011

Yes I have.

Now, how about stopping the insults ? It uglies up the argument and makes the moderators sad.

I have a crying towel...

It has five letters on it...

A...R...G...O...S

jbg · June 9, 2011

I don't think she's just the bravest Canadian. She might be the greatest Canadian, like ever. She's more brave than the bravest of our soldiers in harms way. She's more brave than an abused wife standing up to her abusive husband. And she's definitely more brave than a kid standing up to a bullying kid in the playground. I mean, come on. She had a piece of paper and a marker!

Somehow I detect a note of sarcasm here. But I do give her the same admiration I give Rachel Corrie (link). Well maybe not that Darwin award.

mikedavid00 · June 9, 2011

Oh by the way I will be going to China next week for my wifes immigration interview.

I'm going to be slappin a hot Chinese ass every night for the rest of my life buddy!

Wow i'd never talk about my wife like that.

Anyhow, immigrant Asian/South Asian women from over seas are very, VERY bad in bed. People with real experience know.

If you wanted a mail order bride, you should have looked to South America.

Oh well, I'm sure you'll end up as a statistic in due time. Liberals lack morals. That is what makes a Liberal a Liberal. It's really true. Some consider the fundamental thing that makes a Liberal is the definition of 'without moral'. They see people as objects. They don't have values and morals.

Dave_ON · June 9, 2011

I'm not saying that protestors shouldn't be arrested for doing illegal things and if they have a case against Brigette and choose to take it to court, they should. Part of the process of dissent is facing the consequences for your actions. Her being brought to trial and possibly facing a jail term would be poetic. Stephen Harper's government is found in contempt of Parliament and he gets a majority mandate a couple months later. A lowly young, female page is found in contempt of Parliament for silently holding a sign during the throne speech and she gets run through the courts and put in jail. This is the beauty of protest. Facing the consequences for your actions and trying to get your message out regardless.

To quote Herbert Marshal McLuhan "The Medium is the Message". This type of behavior causes me, and others to dismiss her outright, and in fact has the opposite effect of what she was trying to achieve. She comes across as a childish glory seeking "whackado" worthy of derision and not praise. You see what you have to say is significantly less important in most cases as to how you say it. I wish I could find the example I'm looking for but for now this will have to suffice. Consider the following sentence to illustrate my point. Depending on how we form the sentence in terms of punctuation the message is completely different. "Woman without her man is nothing"

"Woman, without her man, is nothing"

or

"Woman; without her, man is nothing"

The words are precisely the same but the form dictates what the message actually says. That is the difference and THAT is the problem with how she chose to deliver her message. On a side not she's not even particularly brave, yes she was fired, but her term was up in 2 weeks anyway what did she really have to lose? She certainly gained media attention and apparently several job offers, so forgive me if I feel the whole affair was entirely bereft of high political ideals and a love of democracy, and much more about shameless self promotion.

If this behavior is acceptable why do not all Canadians have access to hold up signs in the senate when they feel they too have something important to say? Why not let anyone off the street into parliament at any time they need to express their personal opinions? I'm certain this type of direct and open democracy would only serve to improve our nation and increase productivity 10,000 fold. Actually let's dispense with Parliament entirely, let's just govern ourselves via online forums, and anyone can speak their mind at any time and we'll just govern on a whim! After all EVERYONE has something important to say, and they should be able to voice their opinions at any time they feel the urge to do so.

Dave_ON · June 9, 2011

What's jarring is that a mere 10% difference in votes gave the Conservatives 50% more seats than the NDP. That's hardly a break from the status quo. It's an indication that our electoral system is a pile of crap.

Oddly enough it's navigated us through several wars, economic and social crisis as well as disasters. Yes indeed the system is broken, let's dispense with something that has worked for the better part of 5 centuries in a myriad of nations across the world, for something yet unproven and random, because God forbid we upset another senate page.

Dave_ON · June 9, 2011

Oh well, I'm sure you'll end up as a statistic in due time. Liberals lack morals. That is what makes a Liberal a Liberal. It's really true. Some consider the fundamental thing that makes a Liberal is the definition of 'without moral'. They see people as objects. They don't have values and morals.

Seriously? Wish I had the world wrapped up in a neat little package like you seem to have. (ie. anyone who doesn't think, act or believe as I do isn't moral.) What specific morals are you referring to? Are you the sole arbiter of all things right and good in the world? Compartmentalization is great for your closet, it shouldn't be applied to people.

"follow the man who seeks the truth, run from the man who has found it"

bush_cheney2004 · June 9, 2011

....Yes indeed the system is broken, let's dispense with something that has worked for the better part of 5 centuries in a myriad of nations across the world, for something yet unproven and random, because God forbid we upset another senate page.

Yes and no....there are many examples of it not "working" for some of those nations. When it didn't, it was changed or "dispensed" with.

Dave_ON · June 9, 2011

Yes and no....there are many examples of it not "working" for some of those nations. When it didn't, it was changed or "dispensed" with.

Indeed as the US is well aware, however, "not liking the election results" is a reason that is conspicuously absent from the list. Not liking and not functioning are entirely different affairs.

scribblet · June 9, 2011

Her behaviour was inexcusable but her professors must be happy LOL

What she is saying is anyone who voted for Harper or his party should not have their say, she's trying to disenfranchise 6 million people. she's also advocating with her "arab spring" unelected left wing overthrow of our elected government.