The Bible

[betsy]

51.

FACT: DISCOVERY OF THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS

The Discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls

In the spring of 1947 Bedouin goat-herds, searching the cliffs along the Dead Sea for a lost goat (or for treasure, depending on who is telling the story), came upon a cave containing jars filled with manuscripts. That find caused a sensation when it was released to the world, and continues to fascinate the scholarly community and the public to this day.

The Qumran site and the Dead Sea.

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The first discoveries came to the attention of scholars in 1948, when seven of the scrolls were sold by the Bedouin to a cobbler and antiquities dealer called Kando. He in turn sold three of the scrolls to Eleazar L. Sukenik of Hebrew University, and four to Metropolitan Mar Athanasius Yeshue Samuel of the Syrian Orthodox monastery of St. Mark. Mar Athanasius in turn brought his four to the American School of Oriental Research, where they came to the attention of American and European scholars.

It was not until 1949 that the site of the find was identified as the cave now known as Qumran Cave 1. It was that identification that led to further explorations and excavations of the area of Khirbet Qumran. Further search of Cave 1 revealed archaeological finds of pottery, cloth and wood, as well as a number of additional manuscript fragments. It was these discoveries that proved decisively that the scrolls were indeed ancient and authentic.

Qumran Cave 4.

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Between 1949 and 1956, in what became a race between the Bedouin and the archaeologists, ten additional caves were found in the hills around Qumran, caves that yielded several more scrolls, as well as thousands of fragments of scrolls: the remnants of approximately 800 manuscripts dating from approximately 200 B.C.E. to 68 C.E.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/wsrp/educational_site/dead_sea_scrolls/discovery.shtml

Dead Sea Scrolls: What are They?

The Dead Sea Scrolls have been called the greatest manuscript discovery of modern times. They were discovered between 1947 and 1956 in eleven caves along the northwest shore of the Dead Sea. This is an arid region 13 miles east of Jerusalem and 1,300 feet below sea level. The Dead Sea Scrolls are comprised of the remains of approximately 825 to 870 separate scrolls, represented by tens of thousands of fragments. The texts are most commonly made of animal skins, but also papyrus and one of copper. They are written with a carbon-based ink, from right to left, using no punctuation except for an occasional paragraph indentation.

Dead Sea Scrolls: Why are they Important?

The Dead Sea Scrolls can be divided into two categories—biblical and non-biblical. Fragments of every book of the Old Testament (Hebrew canon) have been discovered, except for the book of Esther. Now identified among the scrolls are 19 fragments of Isaiah, 25 fragments of Deuteronomy and 30 fragments of the Psalms. The virtually intact Isaiah Scroll, which contains some of the most dramatic Messianic prophecy, is 1,000 years older than any previously known copy of Isaiah.

Dead Sea Scrolls: Dramatic Evidence for the Reliability of Messianic Prophecy

The Dead Sea Scrolls comprise the oldest group of Old Testament manuscripts ever found, dating back to 100--200 B.C. This is dramatic, because we now have absolute evidence that Messianic prophecies contained in today’s Old Testament (both Jewish and Christian) are the same Messianic prophecies that existed prior to the time Jesus walked on this earth. It goes without saying, manuscript reliability and textual criticism have taken cosmic steps forward! Check it out – There is no question that Jesus Christ was the Messiah that the Jews were waiting for!

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/dead-sea-scrolls.htm

[CANADIEN]

51.

FACT: DISCOVERY OF THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS

http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/wsrp/educational_site/dead_sea_scrolls/discovery.shtml

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/dead-sea-scrolls.htm

And?

[GostHacked]

Do you believe in Intelligent Design?

Just a simple yes or no will do. Whisper it to me....

The answer is no.

[betsy]

And?

If you still can't grasp it....then perhaps the water's too deep for you.

Sorry, you're on your own. I can't keep up with your new atheistic characteristics.

[CANADIEN]

If you still can't grasp it...

... it's because there's nothing to grasp. News to you: the proof that Jesus was the emboidement of the messianic prophecies is to be found in His life and His deeds, not in the fact the text of those prophecies were transcried and re-transcribed with no significant variations over a large period of time.

Sorry, you're on your own.

Yo0u mean, you will no longer try to "help" me? This confirms that there is a God.

I can't keep up with your new atheistic characteristics.

You cannot keep up with a lot of things already, no surprise you cannot keep up with things that do not exist.

[betsy]

#52

FACT: ARCHEOLOGY FOUND THE POOL OF BETHESDA, WHERE JESUS HEALED THE INVALID

The Pool of Bethesda (also known as Bethsaida) is located near the Sheep Gate just north of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. In his gospel account, John describes such a pool, surrounded by five covered colonnades (John 5:2). Until the 19th century, there was no archaeological evidence for the Pool of Bethesda, so skeptics used this as proof that John’s account was written by some later zealot who didn’t have eyewitness knowledge of Jerusalem or an actual pool called Bethesda.

Today, there’s really no question that archaeologists have uncovered the actual Pool of Bethesda where Jesus healed the invalid (John 5:1-15). The colonnades were visible to John at the time of Jesus, but the pool probably didn’t appear sunken and surrounded by walls like it does today.

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/pool-of-bethesda-faq.htm

John 5:1-15

The Healing at the Pool

1 Some time later, Jesus went up to Jerusalem for one of the Jewish festivals. 2 Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool, which in Aramaic is called Bethesda[a] and which is surrounded by five covered colonnades. 3 Here a great number of disabled people used to lie—the blind, the lame, the paralyzed. [4] 5 One who was there had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in this condition for a long time, he asked him, “Do you want to get well?”

7 “Sir,” the invalid replied, “I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I am trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me.”

8 Then Jesus said to him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk.” 9 At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked.

The day on which this took place was a Sabbath, 10 and so the Jewish leaders said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat.”

11 But he replied, “The man who made me well said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’ ”

12 So they asked him, “Who is this fellow who told you to pick it up and walk?”

13 The man who was healed had no idea who it was, for Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there.

14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.” 15 The man went away and told the Jewish leaders that it was Jesus who had made him well.

Conclusion

This archaeological discovery proved beyond a doubt that the description of this pool in the Gospel of John was not the creation of the Evangelist. It reflected an accurate and detailed knowledge of the site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pool_of_Bethesda

Edited August 24, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

#53

FACT: ARCHEOLOGY DISCOVERED THE POOL OF SILOAM, WHERE JESUS HEALED THE BLIND

JERUSALEM — Archaeologists in Jerusalem have identified the remains of the Siloam Pool, where the Bible says Jesus miraculously cured a man's blindness, researchers said Thursday — underlining a stirring link between the works of Jesus and ancient Jewish rituals.

The archaeologists are slowly digging out the pool, where water still runs, tucked away in what is now the Arab neighborhood of Silwan. It was used by Jews for ritual immersions for about 120 years until the year 70, when the Romans destroyed the Jewish Temple.

Many of Jesus' acts are directly linked to Jewish rituals, and the miracle of the blind man is an example. According to the Bible, the man was undergoing ritual immersion in the Siloam Pool for entry into the Temple compound, and Jesus used the occasion to cure his blindness.

"The moment that we revealed and discovered this four months ago, we were 100 percent sure it was the Siloam Pool," said archaeologist Eli Shukron.

Pean said Jesus likely chose to cure the blind man using the purest water available, because people with any disabilities were barred from the temple.

"The whole point is that people will not only be healed physically but also healed spiritually," he said. "This discovery helps bring the Gospel alive in the context of Jewish practice."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6750670/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/archaeologists-identify-traces-miracle-pool/

Biblical Pool Uncovered in Jerusalem

The reservoir served as a gathering place for Jews making pilgrimages and is said in the Gospel of John to be the site where Jesus cured a blind man.

August 09, 2005|Thomas H. Maugh II | Times Staff Writer

Workers repairing a sewage pipe in the Old City of Jerusalem have discovered the biblical Pool of Siloam, a freshwater reservoir that was a major gathering place for ancient Jews making religious pilgrimages to the city and the reputed site where Jesus cured a man blind from birth, according to the Gospel of John.

The pool was fed by the now famous Hezekiah's Tunnel and is "a much grander affair" than archeologists previously believed, with three tiers of stone stairs allowing easy access to the water, said Hershel Shanks, editor of the Biblical Archaeology Review, which reported the find Monday.

"Scholars have said that there wasn't a Pool of Siloam and that John was using a religious conceit" to illustrate a point, said New Testament scholar James H. Charlesworth of the Princeton Theological Seminary. "Now we have found the Pool of Siloam ... exactly where John said it was."

A gospel that was thought to be "pure theology is now shown to be grounded in history," he said.

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/aug/09/science/sci-siloam9

[BubberMiley]

I wish the bible used more big, crazy fonts. They should do that for when god talks, like how they turn Jeebis' words red.

That way you know for sure it's him talking.

Or betsy.

Either way.

Edited August 24, 2011 by BubberMiley

[CANADIEN]

#53

FACT: ARCHEOLOGY DISCOVERED THE POOL OF SILOAM, WHERE JESUS HEALED THE BLIND

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6750670/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/archaeologists-identify-traces-miracle-pool/

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/aug/09/science/sci-siloam9

And?

[BubberMiley]

And?

The pool of water they discussed actually exists. Therefore, it must have cured blindness. Why don't you get it?

[DogOnPorch]

Meet my cat Socrates.

[betsy]

And?

Which part of these are not clear enough for you?

underlining a stirring link between the works of Jesus and ancient Jewish rituals.

"Scholars have said that there wasn't a Pool of Siloam and that John was using a religious conceit" to illustrate a point, said New Testament scholar James H. Charlesworth of the Princeton Theological Seminary.

"Now we have found the Pool of Siloam ... exactly where John said it was."

A gospel that was thought to be "pure theology is now shown to be grounded in history," he said.

You have problems with science supporting the Old Testament. And now, you've also got problems with science supporting the New Testament! Christian my foot! You're a new atheist posing as a Christian on this board!

Check out the defining features of the New Atheist on the other topic.

Furthermore....your action speaks louder than your words!

Edited August 24, 2011 by betsy

[CANADIEN]

Which part of these are not clear enough for you?

What is not clear to you, has never been clear for you, and will never be clear to you, is that all that archeological discoveries prove is that the writers of the biblical texts used events, or their interpretation of events, in their narratives. That in itself doesn't tell me that the Bible is the word of God. For that you need faith. Yet, one would be hard press to find the word faith in what you wrote. All we get for you is quote mining, with hysterical screams of "Here's the proof! Here's the proof!".

Expert each new instalment of your "catalogue of facts" to be meant with the same answer, "And". Like "And how this proves to me that this is the Word of God?".

If someone were to tell you "Help me to become a Christian", you would hand them the Bible, then send them post after posts saying. "Don't you see, science proves the Bible". I would hand the Bible, and tell them,`"Read it, and seek people who live the call to serve God and others".

Needless to say, I wouldn't send them to you.

Edited August 24, 2011 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

The pool of water they discussed actually exists. Therefore, it must have cured blindness. Why don't you get it?

I get it. Though faith. A word that is strangely not one of betsy's most used words.

Edited August 24, 2011 by CANADIEN

[cybercoma]

betsy, did science prove that people could be cured in those pools of water? That's the point of those stories, right?

Science has proven that London exists, but I'm still having a hard time finding the entrance to Hogwarts.

[betsy]

Oh, the doo-wap choir are having a concert! They've got a new member....the shriekiest vocalist.

Edited August 25, 2011 by betsy

[CANADIEN]

Oh, the doo-wap choir are having a concert! They've got a new member....the shriekiest vocalist.

Translation. betsy has come out of a valid argument (again).

Edited August 25, 2011 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

I thought it would be fun to revisit some of the most ahem interesting parts of the "catalogue of facts". Here we go.

FACT: Nothing holds up Earth. It is affected by gravity.

Job 26:7 (New International Version)

7 He spreads out the northern skies over empty space;

he suspends the earth over nothing.

http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=20124

Since the Earth is not held, it is not suspended. The writer of Genesis had the fact of Creation right, but the mechanics wrong. Not even close. But it doesn't matter. The point of the Bible is that God created the Universe, not how He make it work.

Besides, we also have 1 Samuel 2,8.

For the foundations of the earth are the LORD's; upon them he has set the world.

Hardly a description of gravity.

Edited August 26, 2011 by CANADIEN

[Moonlight Graham]

#53

FACT: ARCHEOLOGY DISCOVERED THE POOL OF SILOAM, WHERE JESUS HEALED THE BLIND

Did a man named Jesus of Nazareth exist? Very likely. Did he visit a place named the Pool of Siloam? Let's be optimistic and say probably. But get back to me when they find evidence that he healed a blind person there.

Man why do i even bother?

[scouterjim]

Creationism is still just a theory, as is evolution. NOBODY has definitive proof of either.

[g_bambino]

Creationism is still just a theory, as is evolution. NOBODY has definitive proof of either.

True. However, one has vastly more evidence supporting it than does the other; so much, in fact, that the theory is essentially almost proven.

[scouterjim]

True. However, one has vastly more evidence supporting it than does the other; so much, in fact, that the theory is essentially almost proven.

I agree that evolution does hold the better hand as to evidence.

[cybercoma]

Evolution is a theory. Creationism is an unproven hypothesis.

[betsy]

True. However, one has vastly more evidence supporting it than does the other; so much, in fact, that the theory is essentially almost proven.

You're right! Creation is proven!

Just the Doctrine of Revelation alone provides evidence of a Creator, who obviously Planned and Designed everything...with templates and blueprints to boot!

And add the Bible to that - and all that's been and being listed as facts on this thread!

And then of course, there's reason and logic that solidly stand behind it!

Not to mention the numbers of famed or significant atheists enumerated on the topic, REJOICE ON THIS DAY! - who all ended up converting to Christianity!

Edited August 25, 2011 by betsy

[scouterjim]

You're right! Creation is proven!

Just the Doctrine of Revelation alone provides evidence of a Creator, who obviously Planned and Designed everything...with templates and blueprints to boot!

And add the Bible to that - and all that's been and being listed as facts on this thread!

And then of course, there's reason and logic that solidly stand behind it!

Not to mention the numbers of famed or significant atheists enumerated on the topic, REJOICE ON THIS DAY! - who all ended up converting to Christianity!

Where was creation proven? I have seen no facts, and the only "proof" is a book that has been changed and altered over 3000 years. Give me time, and I can "prove" to kids that Harry Potter is the truth.

Edited August 25, 2011 by scouterjim