Ontario Fall election

[capricorn]

It seems your boys message only rings true in areas where there are more fields than brains...

Don't forget the wind turbines. Those darned wind turbines.

Edited October 7, 2011 by capricorn

[Bob]

Well he hasn't. In any case, Dalton lost his first election. So did Harper and Harris. There's something to be said about growing on the job. I wouldn't say that about Dion and Ignatieff, but that's a Liberal problem for selecting duds as leaders.

I'm with Michael Hardner on this one, Hudak is a dud and should resign. He was so pathetically weak. I was embarrassed to watch him in the "debate". Just rhetoric and no specifics, and he doesn't even have his details and facts straight. Conservatism is dead in Ontario, and has been for a long time. He could've shredded McGuinty on so many blatant examples of corruption masquerading as a public service, from the "E-Health" crapola to the disgusting identity politics with the ten thousand dollar per "new Canadian" bribe. From the endless lies about shortening wait times, these imaginary world class public schools, to Ontario creating more jobs than all of the USA in a month. The icing on the cake? McGuinty aspires to govern Ontario as California was governed by Schwarzenegger and his predecessor Davis.

[Evening Star]

these imaginary world class public schools,

This one's backed up by the OECD, right?

You could do worse than Schwarzenegger tbh.

[Evening Star]

(Mind you, ON universities on the other hand are in pretty dire straits. I'm thankful I'm not there anymore.)

[Bob]

This one's backed up by the OECD, right?

You could do worse than Schwarzenegger tbh.

I forget the name of the OECD department dedicated to tracking educational trends, but who cares about their statistics? I want to see domestic statistics, graduation rates compared over time, university/college enrollment rates compared over time, and grades/GPAs compared over time. Although much more difficult to examine given the pervasiveness of leftism, we also need to examine the curriculum and see if the expectations are being raised or lowered on the basics (math, language, etc). It seems to me that the standards have not been increased in some time, and I've seen a lot of data that showing children from pathetic countries (i.e. Romania, Poland) outperforming Canadian children on standardized tests in math and science.

[Bonam]

I forget the name of the OECD department dedicated to tracking educational trends, but who cares about their statistics? I want to see domestic statistics, graduation rates compared over time, university/college enrollment rates compared over time, and grades/GPAs compared over time. Although much more difficult to examine given the pervasiveness of leftism, we also need to examine the curriculum and see if the expectations are being raised or lowered on the basics (math, language, etc). It seems to me that the standards have not been increased in some time, and I've seen a lot of data that showing children from pathetic countries (i.e. Romania, Poland) outperforming Canadian children on standardized tests in math and science.

Those countries aren't that pathetic. Eastern european countries have long excelled at math and science, and their education systems are designed to be much more formal, focusing on transfer of information/knowledge to the students. In north america, a much greater emphasis is placed on soft skills. Until one gets to university, then things get serious in the technical degrees.

[Smallc]

If you didn't catch it in David Cameron's speech in Ottawa, Alberta has the highest education scores in the OECD. IIRC, the rest of Canada also performs rather well.

[Bob]

Those countries aren't that pathetic. Eastern european countries have long excelled at math and science, and their education systems are designed to be much more formal, focusing on transfer of information/knowledge to the students. In north america, a much greater emphasis is placed on soft skills. Until one gets to university, then things get serious in the technical degrees.

Don't be so sensitive, my entire family is from Eastern Europe. Doesn't mean those countries aren't pathetic, with pathetic economies and social systems. Why do you think our families left for greener pastures? And yet their children still outperform our kids on standardized tests. And it sure as hell ain't genetics (unless of course we're talking about the Jewish populations from Eastern Europe, who are certainly genetically gifted with respect to IQ, broadly speaking). The bottom line? All the bullshit we hear from the unions as excuses for their underperformed is... well, bullshit. "Lower class sizes", "don't teach to the test", "we need more vacation", "kids need more social education and guidance counselors", "we need plasma TVs to teach via DVD so I can mark tests during class time", "we need new $150 text books every year", etc, etc, etc... while 45-kid classrooms in Krakow where little Pavel learns while living off of potato and squirrel salad made by his disabled war veteran grandmother is better as calculus than Johnny who spends all of his free time playing Xbox.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Bob

[Bob]

If you didn't catch it in David Cameron's speech in Ottawa, Alberta has the highest education scores in the OECD. IIRC, the rest of Canada also performs rather well.

I don't believe a word David Cameron says, so I completely ignored that idiot's recent address. Let me see some statistics, and then we'll go from there.

[Smallc]

Sorry, that was the highest English speaking scores.

[Bob]

Sorry, that was the highest English speaking scores.

There we go - meaningless.

[Smallc]

There we go - meaningless.

Yes, totally meaningless:

http://www.cmec.ca/Press/2010/Pages/2010-12-07.aspx

[Evening Star]

compared over time. Although much more difficult to examine given the pervasiveness of leftism, we also need to examine the curriculum and see if the expectations are being raised or lowered on the basics (math, language, etc).

This is not a left/right issue in my opinion. I'm fairly left-leaning. I encourage you to ask my students what my expectations are like when it comes to language.

(Thanks for finding that, Smallc. I'd been combing through the whole 2011 report on the OECD site, which is much harder to navigate.)

[Bob]

Yes, totally meaningless:

http://www.cmec.ca/Press/2010/Pages/2010-12-07.aspx

That link is certainly meaningless at face value. I just read through it, and will look at the actual study linked within your link in a moment, but it gives a very general overview and admits that math and science were secondary, with "reading" being most focused on part of this comparison. Bear in mind that reading is distinct from comprehension and application. We'll go into this in further detail later. Looks like bullshit window dressing from here.

[Smallc]

That's right, we suck....

Whatever you want to believe.

[Bob]

And yes, it's PISA that I was trying to remember. PISA unfortunately have a very labyrinthian website the last time I checked and it'll take time to look through it for meaningful and unpoliticized statistics.

[Bob]

That's right, we suck....

Whatever you want to believe.

It's not so much that we're terrible, but our performance is not at all commensurate to what we spend. This is, of course, a product of our leftist politics: politicians, unions, and their idiot followers who know nothing about education and rant on and on about "investing" in educating and the oppressed teacher who makes a killing compared to other professions with comparable educational requirements while enjoying an absurd amount of vacation. This sick political system also vehemently opposes any positive changes, such as introduction of accountability measures such as voucher systems. We keep pouring more and more money into education without yielding any real performance increase.

[Bonam]

Don't be so sensitive, my entire family is from Eastern Europe. Doesn't mean those countries aren't pathetic, with pathetic economies and social systems. Why do you think our families left for greener pastures? And yet their children still outperform our kids on standardized tests. And it sure as hell ain't genetics (unless of course we're talking about the Jewish populations from Eastern Europe, who are certainly genetically gifted with respect to IQ, broadly speaking). The bottom line? All the bullshit we hear from the unions as excuses for their underperformed is... well, bullshit. "Lower class sizes", "don't teach to the test", "we need more vacation", "kids need more social education and guidance counselors", "we need plasma TVs to teach via DVD so I can mark tests during class time", "we need new $150 text books every year", etc, etc, etc... while 45-kid classrooms in Krakow where little Pavel learns while living off of potato and squirrel salad made by his disabled war veteran grandmother is better as calculus than Johnny who spends all of his free time playing Xbox.

While I think unions have no place in Western education as much as the next guy, I don't think unions are the reason for Western kids having unimpressive results in math and science. Remember, results in math and science were often better in Eastern Europe even during Soviet times, where things were obviously much more socialized than any Western union could hope for. It is more a matter of culture, and what is given importance. In Eastern Europe, math and science were always a high priority in school. Rote learning is also a high priority. The education there is much more "traditional" in that sense. In North America, not so much, especially recently.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Bonam

[Bob]

While I think unions have no place in Western education as much as the next guy, I don't think unions are the reason for Western kids having unimpressive results in math and science. Remember, results in math and science were often better in Eastern Europe even during Soviet times, where things were obviously much more socialized than any Western union could hope for. It is more a matter of culture, and what is given importance. In Eastern Europe, math and science were always a high priority in school. Rote learning is also a high priority. The education there is much more "traditional" in that sense. In North America, not so much, especially recently.

I agree with that, and I know that to be true from my own experiences and personal connection to this issue of comparison. Still, unions are a part of the problem that prevent positive changes from being implemented in order to protect their insulation from accountability and ongoing extortion of taxpayer money. They're a part of the problem to maintain the status quo in the worst way.

[Jack Weber]

Bob..

I have you on ignore but I can read your clueless drivel through quotes..

Why don't you Eff Off and worry about your meaningless Mediterranean pile of rocks...

You don't live here and your self absorbed "opinion" are completely irrelevent...

[Jack Weber]

Oh....

And in the words of the nutty (see clueless) Professor...

Can I get a "Suck it,Righties?"

Edited October 7, 2011 by Jack Weber

[Wild Bill]

Bob..

I have you on ignore but I can read your clueless drivel through quotes..

Why don't you Eff Off and worry about your meaningless Mediterranean pile of rocks...

You don't live here and your self absorbed "opinion" are completely irrelevent...

So what do you REALLY think about free speech, Jack? And you wonder why some folks think it's the Left that is the first to want to censor those who hold contrary opinions...

[MiddleClassCentrist]

At least Sun TV didn't interrupt election coverage like CTV did to broadcast The Mentalist. And the CBC, you know, the taxpayer funded network that's supposed to work to inform and unite the Canadian public didn't even cover the Ontario elections.

I watched CBC streamed online.

I cancelled TV years ago because big telecom is gouging everyone, most people don't understand technology enough to see how bad it realy is. I have to give a months notice so that they can switch an entry in a database (takes milliseconds)? EFF THAT.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

So what do you REALLY think about free speech, Jack? And you wonder why some folks think it's the Left that is the first to want to censor those who hold contrary opinions...

Well, Bob did come in and completely ignore statistical data in his quest for feeling superior on an internet forum.

Blocking him for idiocy and being annoying - Valid.

It's not like I gather around the crazed religious guy at the bus terminal shouting about how we will be judged and that masturbation is the cause. I'd walk away, or listen and laugh.

Edited October 7, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist

[Oleg Bach]

Here we are with the devil we know...and you know - over half of the voters just did not bother going out to cast a ballot..the ones that did had a vested interest in continued liberalism in Ontario sorry I mean the city state of Toronto. Those with eager resolve that ran out to vote - were mostly those that are employed through tax dollars...those that really don't generate any real prosperity...it was those who like the high taxes because it is those that draw their pay cheaques out of the public purse. It's a liberal circle jerk once more...where our middle class maintained by the poor guy that gets a fat ticket on a Sunday night for parking his own car on his own street.

It is those so-called middle classers who have their kids in all day day care..who love immigration because even they can have a nanny in the back bed room who they pay with food and the odd hundrend dollar bill. It was the status quo that loves the idea of gentle boys who behave like little girls in curls from a by-gone era. NDP - Liberal - not much difference - The dream of the NDP has always been to be THE BOSS - This phenomena is peculiar only to Toronto...the socialist revolution that put independent person on welfare - then send their kids to some community colleage so they could get jobs administrating to the artifial poor that they created...welcome to the church of liberalism- an area of self worship...and the new city state elite.

The rode into office on the combination of hate for traditional values that command a person to be independent and free...and support themselves though their own determination and creative enterpise ALONG with riding into town on the coat tails of a created saint in the form of some person now dead - who's heros were Lenin and Marx - I say beware my friends - these folks can hurt you - as the record shows...I suggest that the federal government starve this stupid fortress of debachery into submission - give TORONTO nothing...let them acutally work...If the welfare department is called ONTARIO works...let liberal Torontonians also work...as I can see it - this election was won by those who cast a ballot called - The free ride on another kind of gravy train...one where they all line up and screw each other from behind in some sort of collective sodomy...and those that do not particiapte or "comply" will be oppressed and destroyed - Makes you want to leave this city - a city where the lunitics have taken over the nut house.