August1991 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Obama said this recently in a CBS interview: "It is important to make sure that very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence or as a propaganda tool," said the president."We don't trot out this stuff as trophies," Mr. Obama added. "The fact of the matter is, this is somebody who was deserving of the justice that he received." CBSAnd yet in 1967, when American lead forces opposed the insurgency of Che Guevara in Bolivia and killed him, the US released graphic photos to prove that Guevara was dead. I understand Obama's argument but it's clear that in a different time, the US government worked differently. If the Americans had managed to capture and kill Adolf Hitler, would they have hesitated in showing that he was dead? Indeed, a primary purpose in tracking down Osama bin Laden and killing him was to show that the US government is relentless in pursuing America's enemies. Edited May 5, 2011 by August1991 Quote
Topaz Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 For those who want to see pictures go over to Alex Jones and read and see pictures. I know what some people think about him but he can backup what he says. I'm not sure if the pictures are real or is all that blood is syrup and food coloring, who knows when your dealing with the CIA and the US government. There's been so many lies about 9/11, can you blame people who are doubt. I also found an article online that a former CIA agent had come out and said, that the CIA had made fake vdeos of OBL, that you can find by goggling. http://www.infowars.com/ Quote
GostHacked Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 You can just check out other sites and see teh discrepancies of the story. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound as further doubts emerged about the US version of events. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/04/senators-misled-by-likely-fake-bin-laden-photos/?hpt=T1 Washington (CNN) – Several senators said Wednesday they had seen a photograph of Osama bin Laden after he was shot, describing it to reporters and using it to help form their opinion on whether or not President Obama should release pictures of the dead terrorist.Now, on a day when fake photographs of a dead bin Laden are flying around the internet, those senators say they cannot be sure whether what they saw and talked to reporters about was real. Looks like Obama is riding high on this one. He is going to milk this for all it's worth. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/05/05/us-obama-ground-zero.html U.S. President Barack Obama was to travel to New York City on Thursday to lay a wreath at Ground Zero — just days after the slaying of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.CBC's David Common said the area around Ground Zero was already locked down early Thursday with a heavy police presence. Now prepare for the TSA to greet you when you go to your local mall or public facility, it's going to be everywhere. http://theintelhub.com/2010/12/26/tsa-and-big-sis-coming-to-a-mall-or-hotel-near-you-1984-is-here/ Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano (Big Sis) announced today that security will be tightened at so called “soft targets” around the country.Unfortunately for law abiding Americans, this means that low IQ security officials will not only bother and sometimes molest you at airports, they will also be in your local mall or hotel. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
GostHacked Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/osama-bin-laden-dead-seals-stealth-helicopter-13530978 I had a feeling from some of those pics that this was a new chopper. That pretty much confirms it. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
Black Dog Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Now prepare for the TSA to greet you when you go to your local mall or public facility, it's going to be everywhere. http://theintelhub.com/2010/12/26/tsa-and-big-sis-coming-to-a-mall-or-hotel-near-you-1984-is-here/ Just like the Gestapo! Or the Stasi! Or...or...Big Brother! Yeah! Quote "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." - Francis M. Wilhoit
kimmy Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Obama said this recently in a CBS interview:CBS And yet in 1967, when American lead forces opposed the insurgency of Che Guevara in Bolivia and killed him, the US released graphic photos to prove that Guevara was dead. I understand Obama's argument but it's clear that in a different time, the US government worked differently. If the Americans had managed to capture and kill Adolf Hitler, would they have hesitated in showing that he was dead? Indeed, a primary purpose in tracking down Osama bin Laden and killing him was to show that the US government is relentless in pursuing America's enemies. Bin Laden (unlike Hitler or Guevara) is viewed by some as a champion of a religion. Offering indignities to his corpse might well be viewed as an indignity to the faith by those who are inclined to see him in that light. The Alex Joneses of the world won't accept that they killed him without pictures. Then again, the Alex Joneses of the world won't accept pictures as proof anyway. Let's say Obama gives in. "Ok, I see that some of you just aren't going to believe he's dead without proof. Ok, here's the pictures." The very first word you're going to hear from the Alex Joneses of the world? "Fake." Let's ask Ghost and Topaz. Are you two going to believe the US Government version of the story if they show you pictures? Like, both of you have said before that you think the US can create fakes of almost anything, right? So pictures would be useless as proof, yes? Ghost and Topaz... is there anything that Obama could do to convince you that the government version is the truth? I suspect that the answer is no, and I think it would be kind of silly to base a decision like this around trying to satisfy people who will never be satisfied. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ノ(° -°ノ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 ...I suspect that the answer is no, and I think it would be kind of silly to base a decision like this around trying to satisfy people who will never be satisfied. The funny part is that like minded folk will believe that the World Trade Center was wired with demolition charges sans any proof at all, let alone a "photograph". Especially if Alex Jones says so. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Just like the Gestapo! Or the Stasi! Or...or...Big Brother! Yeah! The slippery slope started years ago. Does all this security theater make you any safer? Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
GostHacked Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 The funny part is that like minded folk will believe that the World Trade Center was wired with demolition charges sans any proof at all, let alone a "photograph". Especially if Alex Jones says so. The photographs are there. Just check out the huge box columns in the rubble of some of the pics. You can see much twisted metal laying around, but some of the box colums have a nice clean diagonal cut through them. There is enough evidence it seems to at least warrent another investigation into it, but that will never happen. You guys can keep laughing, but I am no longer laughing. Most of you wont even take a look at any other evidence but the official story. I've looked at a whole lot of stuff. Some is dumb, but there is some quality evidence to show that the towers (especcialy building 7, I watched that one 'live' on tv) were purposefully demolished. The propaganda for the official story of 9/11 seems to work on the American people more than anyone on the planet. Most of who I talk to in my day say that it was an inside job. Don't worry I have enough tin foil for me AND Topaz, and anyone else who does not buy the official story. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
GostHacked Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Let's ask Ghost and Topaz. Are you two going to believe the US Government version of the story if they show you pictures? Like, both of you have said before that you think the US can create fakes of almost anything, right? So pictures would be useless as proof, yes? I'd scrutinize the pictures for sure. But since I am on the notion that Bin Laden has been dead for years. That would only say those pics are indeed fake. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
kimmy Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 I'd scrutinize the pictures for sure. But since I am on the notion that Bin Laden has been dead for years. That would only say those pics are indeed fake. In other words, your mind is made up already, regardless of how realistic the pictures look. Correct? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ノ(° -°ノ)
GostHacked Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 In other words, your mind is made up already, regardless of how realistic the pictures look. Correct? -k If in fact he has been dead for years, then yes the pics are fake. My mind is not made up yet. There is still a possibility that what took place over the past weekend was in fact true. In the end I am going with the notion Bin Laden has been dead for years. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
August1991 Posted May 5, 2011 Author Report Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Let's say Obama gives in. "Ok, I see that some of you just aren't going to believe he's dead without proof. Ok, here's the pictures."The very first word you're going to hear from the Alex Joneses of the world? "Fake." I suppose you're right. In 1967, nobody had heard of Adobe Photoshop and the closest approximation would have been Stalin using airbrushes to alter photographs of the Politburo.Then again, everyone believes that teh photos of a captured Saddam Hussein were legitimate. ---- Obama gave as a reason for not releasing the photos that Americans "don't do things like that". But in fact, Americans do (or at least did) do things like that. As I noted above, one purpose of this mission was to show what happens to anyone who conspires against the American people. I'm sure the Americans considered dropping a cruise missile on Osama's complex and slaughtering his entire family. Because of previous near misses, they probably dropped that option since they wanted absolute proof that Osama was killed. IOW, they took pictures. I think the commandos should have taken the pictures and then called in a cruise missile or two to finish off the job. Bin Laden (unlike Hitler or Guevara) is viewed by some as a champion of a religion. Offering indignities to his corpse might well be viewed as an indignity to the faith by those who are inclined to see him in that light.So what? Many people saw Guevara in almost religious terms. If bin Laden is perceived as a religious leader, how does that protect him? Americans have no problem with Muslims. They have a problem with al-Qaeda. There's a difference. Edited May 5, 2011 by August1991 Quote
kimmy Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Obama gave as a reason for not releasing the photos that Americans "don't do things like that". But in fact, Americans do (or at least) did do things like that. As I noted above, one purpose of this mission was to show what happens to anyone who conspires against the American people. I can understand that, and I think there's an argument to be made for releasing the pictures as well. So what? Many people saw Guevara in almost religious terms. If bin Laden is perceived as a religious leader, how does that protect him? Americans have no problem with Muslims. They have a problem with al-Qaeda. There's a difference. If Guevara was seen in religious terms, it was a religion with him at the center, and proving that he was dead would have been a crushing blow to that "church" and its followers. Bin Laden, on the other hand, is viewed by some as a "hero of Islam" (didn't the Taliban use those exact words when the US demanded he be turned over prior to the invasion of Afghanistan?) When I was still living in Ottawa, I remember how outraged people (including myself) became when some dirtbag pissed on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. I would think that some people, maybe those already inclined to sympathy with Bin Laden and his cause-- might be similarly inflamed by photos of Bin Laden's mutilated corpse being circulated around the interweb. They're probably mad already... but why kick the hornet's nest? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ノ(° -°ノ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 ...I'm sure the Americans considered dropping a cruise missile on Osama's complex and slaughtering his entire family. Because of previous near misses, they probably dropped that option since they wanted absolute proof that Osama was killed. IOW, they took pictures.... Pictures are nice...a DNA match is far better. The pictures can be faked storyline means that JFK isn't dead either. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Pliny Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 I've listened to comments on both sides of this issue. It really doesn't make too much difference whether Bin Laden is dead or alive. I kind of resent the paternal attitiude of Barack in saying he doesn't want graphically violent pictures shown to people and I don't see that pictures of Osama's body is going to make the enemy hate America any more than they already do. You can bet that Obama will be spiking this football all the way to the election and not releasing the photos will tend to keep the issue alive. The media will help along with spiking the birther issue. The real sad fact is the increasing number of Americans, and others, who do not trust the US government. The Barack administration hasn't proven to be open and tranparent or unifying in any respect. Every issue has become more political and divisive. Barack wants compromise and laughs privately when he gets "nickled and dimed" on the issues while holding up that nickling and diming as great compromises in public. Does he think we're stupid! Answer: privately - Yes! Publicly - No. Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
Pliny Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Just like the Gestapo! Or the Stasi! Or...or...Big Brother! Yeah! Yeah....Harper wasn't elected down there! Sheesh! Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
Topaz Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Why is it that if anyone disagrees with something, its tinfoil? Why can't people have an open mind and look at both sides? OBL may be dead. ok, but let also remember the US worked with him fighting the Russians, he may even been to the White House. When 9/11 happen right off the bat, Bush said it was OBL without having any proof. Yes, there were those videos, which now a former CIA agents says the CIA made them up. OBL said he didn't have anything to do with 9/11, I think he was a escape goat for the GW gang to go into Afghanistan and Iraq. Why? two reasons, one the billions of barrels of oil under that area which the US didn't China to get and two, to get control over the Middle-East. I've read reports that said that OBL was in Dubai in a hospital for kidney fail and liver problems and that a CIA agent had visit on a number of times until that agent mouth off to his friends about seeing OBL, that agent was withdraw from Dubai. GW protected OBL because of the ties between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family. So IF OBL is really dead, then the US killed him to shut him up because he knew too much, like he didn't have anything to do with 9/11. I've read that it was Pakistan and part of the royal family of Saudi Arabia that not a fan of the US. The mindset of 9/11 has been put out there and people won't or don't want to believe anything else. Some people don't want to believe that their government can or would do anything so terrible, but since the Nam war, we are living in a whole different world and anything is on the table. If you don't agree with me, that's ok, but stop the tinfoil or other peronal attacks, ok? Quote
GostHacked Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Why is it that if anyone disagrees with something, its tinfoil? Why can't people have an open mind and look at both sides? OBL may be dead. ok, but let also remember the US worked with him fighting the Russians, he may even been to the White House. When 9/11 happen right off the bat, Bush said it was OBL without having any proof. Yes, there were those videos, which now a former CIA agents says the CIA made them up. OBL said he didn't have anything to do with 9/11, I think he was a escape goat for the GW gang to go into Afghanistan and Iraq. Why? two reasons, one the billions of barrels of oil under that area which the US didn't China to get and two, to get control over the Middle-East. I've read reports that said that OBL was in Dubai in a hospital for kidney fail and liver problems and that a CIA agent had visit on a number of times until that agent mouth off to his friends about seeing OBL, that agent was withdraw from Dubai. GW protected OBL because of the ties between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family. So IF OBL is really dead, then the US killed him to shut him up because he knew too much, like he didn't have anything to do with 9/11. I've read that it was Pakistan and part of the royal family of Saudi Arabia that not a fan of the US. The mindset of 9/11 has been put out there and people won't or don't want to believe anything else. Some people don't want to believe that their government can or would do anything so terrible, but since the Nam war, we are living in a whole different world and anything is on the table. If you don't agree with me, that's ok, but stop the tinfoil or other peronal attacks, ok? It's a defence mechanism. Because most can't comprehend that their governments sometimes do things to their own people. The CIA has had a history of doing such things to unsuspecting American citizens. The British have done the same, it happens almost in every country. The government puts out what you want them to believe, and for the most part the MSM is complicit in carrying the story the government wants you to hear. It is nothing more than propaganda in the form of 'Public Relations'. Every corporation has one, that way they can tell you what the company is doing regardless of their past history of screw ups and shady dealings. They will continue to call people like you and me, crazy or tinfoil hatters, and that's fine by me. They don't want their current sanitized world view shattered. They don't want to get out of their comfort zone. They don't want to know what is going on. They would rather watch Jersey Shore and playing Xbox. They would rather be entertained instead of informed. I am not the smartest person out there, and there are still a lot of things I am ignorant about, but at least I am willing to look at everything. The lies and deceit are easily broken down. And we see how many times the official story has changed in regards to Bin Laden's death. But instead of waiting a day or two to gather their facts and present it one way and consitently one way, they back peddle, retract and redact. The story gets 'purple monkey dishwasher'd' down to the point where their final official story is nothing like what they said at the start. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Why is it that if anyone disagrees with something, its tinfoil? Why can't people have an open mind and look at both sides? OBL may be dead. ok, but let also remember the US worked with him fighting the Russians, he may even been to the White House. When 9/11 happen right off the bat, Bush said it was OBL without having any proof. The US was dealing with OBL and Al Qaeda long before 9/11 or George Bush. Yes, there were those videos, which now a former CIA agents says the CIA made them up. OBL said he didn't have anything to do with 9/11, I think he was a escape goat for the GW gang to go into Afghanistan and Iraq. Why? two reasons, one the billions of barrels of oil under that area which the US didn't China to get and two, to get control over the Middle-East. The US was doing that before 9/11....which just added another reason. See Carter Doctrine. I've read reports that said that OBL was in Dubai in a hospital for kidney fail and liver problems and that a CIA agent had visit on a number of times until that agent mouth off to his friends about seeing OBL, that agent was withdraw from Dubai. GW protected OBL because of the ties between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family. Citation please...you are famous for "reading" or "hearing " things that cannot be substantiated. So IF OBL is really dead, then the US killed him to shut him up because he knew too much, like he didn't have anything to do with 9/11. I've read that it was Pakistan and part of the royal family of Saudi Arabia that not a fan of the US. The mindset of 9/11 has been put out there and people won't or don't want to believe anything else. Then why did the US wait 10 years to do this? Some people don't want to believe that their government can or would do anything so terrible, but since the Nam war, we are living in a whole different world and anything is on the table. If you don't agree with me, that's ok, but stop the tinfoil or other peronal attacks, ok? The Nam war? Who are you kidding? Why stop there? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 I voted "can't say" because I don't really know everything that the government is up against in dealing with the issue, but I don't think anyone who questions it would be appeased/convinced by photos, and those who do believe the official story don't need to see photos, so really, what's the point? In retrospect, I should have voted "no," because I don't see what good could come of releasing gruesome, bloody photos of a dead man. Quote
TimG Posted May 6, 2011 Report Posted May 6, 2011 Obama might have been able to stop the birther movement from festering if he released his long form birth certificate years ago. Refusing to do so gave birthers a sliver to grasp onto. The same is true for Bin Laden photos. They had no problem releasing photos of other al queada leaders killed by troops. I don't see why this is an issue. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted May 6, 2011 Report Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Obama might have been able to stop the birther movement from festering if he released his long form birth certificate years ago. Refusing to do so gave birthers a sliver to grasp onto. He didn't "refuse to;" Hawaii doesn't produce the long form and had to finally make an exception in hopes of shutting up the birthers. The same is true for Bin Laden photos. They had no problem releasing photos of other al queada leaders killed by troops. I don't see why this is an issue. You think photos are going to make believers out of non-believers? Seriously? "Here's a photo." "Oh, wow, you made a believer out of me! I don't question a photo in this day of photoshopping at all!" I hardly think that's the way it would go down. I think releasing the photos has more potential for harm than for good. Who cares if some people don't believe he was killed? People's beliefs don't change the facts. Edited May 6, 2011 by American Woman Quote
GostHacked Posted May 6, 2011 Report Posted May 6, 2011 He didn't "refuse to;" Hawaii doesn't produce the long form and had to finally make an exception in hopes of shutting up the birthers. Hawaii does not produce a long form ... so there was no long form, but they had to make an exception more than 40 years later? That makes no sense to me. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
Guest American Woman Posted May 6, 2011 Report Posted May 6, 2011 Hawaii does not produce a long form ... so there was no long form, but they had to make an exception more than 40 years later? That makes no sense to me. I should have said it doesn't produce the long form for individuals. Did you not read the thread about this? Quote
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