kimmy Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 He is not my hero, not one bit. Actually, his constant grin tends to slightly irritate me. And quite frankly, there is something a bit funny about someone going for a massage and ending up in the middle of raid. But not as funny as the desperate attempts by people who do not like him to make innuendos after baseless assumptions. What baseless assumptions? The facts are clear. The only question is whether you believe him when he said he didn't know what kind of place he was at. I have no hunch about it. The KNOWN FACT include the FACT he had an appointment. Well, Olivia said so, at least. So, he knew the place, if not from prior visits then at least by reputation? Which is what the use of assumptions that he was there for sexual gratification (and I do not believe for one second this is not what you are trying to push) are such a joke. As I've said a multitude of times in this thread, I'm not claiming he was there for sexual purposes. As I've said a multitude of times in this thread, a real champion of dignity and equality for women wouldn't knowingly go to an outfit like this. The only excuse for it is if he didn't know, and I certainly don't find that believable. Sorry. A champion of dignity and equality for women wouldn't patronize and financially support a rub-and-tug. It's rank hypocrisy comparable to a "family values" politician cheating on his wife or an anti-gay crusader "tapping his foot" in a bathroom stall. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Here is a list of RMT for Toronto: http://www.rmtfind.com/results.asp?CITY=TORONTO 90% use the personal name. After that 'Spa' is as racy as it gets. Thanks for the list! I wonder how many of them are open for business after 9pm? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 A champion of dignity and equality for women wouldn't patronize and financially support a rub-and-tug. It's rank hypocrisy comparable to a "family values" politician cheating on his wife or an anti-gay crusader "tapping his foot" in a bathroom stall. -k Not by the logic of your insistence that you're not saying he went for sexual gratification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Not by the logic of your insistence that you're not saying he went for sexual gratification. Huh? If he's frequenting an establishment where vulnerable women are exploited, he's supporting that exploitation whether he's getting the full treatment or not. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Because we live in Canada where we don't assume someone is guilty of something until they are proven to be. That is the Canada I want to live in. You may have a different idea of a country where rumor and innuendo is how people are judged. I don't want to live in that country. Sorry. I have no clue what you are talking about. I have and have never seen the media rake anyone through the coals for going to church. This "we are such victims" conservatives play is so sad. Where have I said that layton was guilty in this thread? I'm pretty sure this will turn out to be a nothing case due to the lack of evidence. However if I'm a politician I wouldn't be hanging out at massage parlor's after 9 bells, that's how rumors get started. I'm not talking about the media either, I'm talking about left of centre posters on this forum in past elections laying the same innuendo about how harper and day and other small c conservatives are unfit for public office because they hang out at church on sunday mornings, the same way some of the right posters are on layton being unfit for public office because he likes to hang out at massage parlors. Welcome to victimland!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the list! I wonder how many of them are open for business after 9pm? The McDonald's in my town is open 24 hours. Just want to know if it's acceptable to get a hamburger after 9 pm or if it's really naive of me to believe it's just serving Big Macs. Edited May 1, 2011 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) Honestly, from that Street View, the place doesn't look that different from any number of alternative medicine shops in Chinatown in Toronto. The name isn't great but, as AW notes, doesn't seem obviously damning to me either. Like I said, the outward appearance of the place is not at all as obviously skeezy to me as some of the massage parlours in Windsor or Montreal for that matter. It's believable to me that a legitimate massage clinic could be open later in the evening. (I did a quick search for RMT clinics in Toronto. Most seem to be open until 8. It's possible that a place could decide to stay open a little later than that.) The known facts, many of which are coming from sources who have a vested interest 15 years after the event, could certainly suggest that the place was an illicit operation but do not suggest this convincingly enough for me. (But, as I've said, I'm not that bothered about it even if Layton was being a bit hypocritical about this 15 years ago.) xposts Edited May 1, 2011 by Evening Star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) Where have I said that layton was guilty in this thread? I'm pretty sure this will turn out to be a nothing case due to the lack of evidence. However if I'm a politician I wouldn't be hanging out at massage parlor's after 9 bells, that's how rumors get started. I'm not talking about the media either, I'm talking about left of centre posters on this forum in past elections laying the same innuendo about how harper and day and other small c conservatives are unfit for public office because they hang out at church on sunday mornings, the same way some of the right posters are on layton being unfit for public office because he likes to hang out at massage parlors. Welcome to victimland!! I go to church on Sundays why would I hold that against Harper? I seriously have no clue what you are talking about I feel like you think people say that even though they don't. That is my point. I don't want Canadian elections decided on rumors, I think "soldiers in our streets" was terrible. I want them decided on policy. So lets stop with the rumors and talk policy. Edited May 1, 2011 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Now that you mention it kimmy, it seems to me that most therapeutic masseuses and masseurs operate independently with independent facilities, and don't affiliate together in one single operation. For example, my masseuse has one office with her name on the door. http://www.google.ca/search?q=rmt+massage+clinic+toronto&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 I'm not talking about the media either, I'm talking about left of centre posters on this forum in past elections laying the same innuendo about how harper and day and other small c conservatives are unfit for public office because they hang out at church on sunday mornings, the same way some of the right posters are on layton being unfit for public office because he likes to hang out at massage parlors. I don't even know what you're talking about here. Do you know how many prominent Liberals are or have been devout Catholics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 If that red light/green light thing is for real, that does sound pretty blatantly sketchy, admittedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 The McDonald's in my town is open 24 hours. Just want to know if it's acceptable to get a hamburger after 9 pm or if it's really naive of me to believe it's just serving Big Macs. Since many legitimate fast food outlets are open late at night, and since few are offering sexual services, you're probably ok. I don't think you can say either of those things about massage establishments, so it's a pretty weak comparison. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 I go to church on Sundays why would I hold that against Harper? I seriously have no clue what you are talking about I feel like you think people say that even though they don't. That is my point. I don't want Canadian elections decided on rumors, I think "soldiers in our streets" was terrible. I want them decided on policy. So lets stop with the rumors and talk policy. I'm not saying it was you personally who got on the "church bashing bandwagon". I don't know if you were around or watching the forum when that was going on. There are threads in the archives talking about that. (Please don't make a smartphone user dig thru that!). My point was directed at other left leaning people who thought it was ok to bash the cpc for hanging out at church and thus not being fit for office. I only responded to you about my cheap la-z-boy quip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 If that red light/green light thing is for real, that does sound pretty blatantly sketchy, admittedly. It's for real. http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/29/suspected-bawdy-house-raided-in-project-cobra -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 The McDonald's in my town is open 24 hours. Just want to know if it's acceptable to get a hamburger after 9 pm or if it's really naive of me to believe it's just serving Big Macs. AW, usually I see eye to eye with you but here we differ. We have not heard Layton or Chow disavow that the establishment was a massage parlor, only that there was "no wrongdoing". No specific acts were denied. Even if the establishment were somehow not a sex-for-sale business it was still exploitation of women. A bit of left-wing hypocrisy maybe? I know that the religious right has hypocrisy. What's sauce for the goose.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) Kimmy, I'm not going to go in circles humouring your assumptions anymore. You've obviously made up your mind that he should have known better. To answer the questions you posed to me about my "girlfriend". She wasn't a girlfriend in any sense other than the fact that she was female and a friend of mine. We didn't have a relationship. In any case, the clinic that she worked at was open until 10pm on some nights to accommodate people's schedules. Heck, my dentist's office is open until 9pm on Thursdays for the same reason. Of course, when I book an 8:30pm cleaning... I don't ask the oral hygienist why her title has "oral" in it. Edited May 1, 2011 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 It's for real. http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/29/suspected-bawdy-house-raided-in-project-cobra -k Again here we have the word of a police officer who is not under investigation. Hmmmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Again here we have the word of a police officer who is not under investigation. Hmmmmmm. The description, to my eyes, has the ring of truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Notice how Sun News is very careful about the way they publish this story? They don't call it a bawdy house. They keep publishing "suspected bawdy house", since there's no proof that it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Since many legitimate fast food outlets are open late at night, and since few are offering sexual services, you're probably ok. I don't think you can say either of those things about massage establishments, so it's a pretty weak comparison. Good grief. It wasn't a comparison. It was an attempt to show how ludicrous your "after 9pm" evidence of guilt is. If you look at the list that was posted and click on just a few, they all say "evening hours available." So seriously. How late in the evening should one be able to get a massage before it becomes something other than a massage? What do you think is meant by evening hours? 6pm? 7? Is 8pm bordering on suspicious? We all know what 9pm means. Your argument, which I have the feeling you have no clue about, is ludicrous. Unless you can prove that legitimate massage parlors all close by 9pm, your claim that 9pm=guilt is as off the wall as it comes across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 . Why is it that we give layton the automatic benefit of the doubt for going to massage parlor's (rightly so btw) but at the same time stockwell day and harper get raked through the coals because they frequent church? I won't comment on Harper. But Day believe in that non-scientific proposition that the Earth is a few thousands year old at best and that dinosaurs roamed the Earth with Noah. And there was reason to believe that it would influence his views on what role government should play in regards to science. That, unlike layton not having the sense to realize that there was possibly something illegal taking place where he got his massage, is relevant in evaluating those who seek to lead this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 The description, to my eyes, has the ring of truth. Funny how the only things that have ever had "the ring of truth" to your eyes are things that have promoted your extreme right-wing agenda. Weird coincidence, that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeyhands Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 I find it hilarious (if not incredibly sad as well) that this thread has reached 52 pages. Compare that to the length of some of the threads around the various REAL scandals and schemes that the CPC foisted upon us. Incredible to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 The place was called 'The Velvet Touch'???? /facepalm Either Layton's being completely disingenious, or he's the biggest idiot ever. It's one of those two choices. My God, The Velvet Touch..../facepalm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) nevermind... just realized I changed the settings years ago, so there's more posts per page. Edited May 1, 2011 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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