cybercoma Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Right. As oppose to the secret agenda campaigns, or the troops in the streets campaigns run against Harper. How soon we forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Here are some answers to questions people have been asking: http://www.lfpress.com/news/decision2011/2011/04/30/18087896.html?sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4dbcbf1cb69d2e0e,1 The palour stopped operating after the raids (not something you expect from a legit place): Seems to be that Jack would have to be awfly naive to not know what was going on. "He's claiming he got a legitimate massage, but the issue here is it's clear it was a rub-and-tug and most people in society would know that when they go in. I'd be very surprised that a very smart politician would not have known ... and Jack was very smart." -Toronto councillor Giorgio Mammoliti Jack says that he had no idea what kind of place it actually was. Really? It's called "The Velvet Touch". It's located in a district known for bawdy houses. They had a "red-light/green light" warning system. Jack walked in there at 9pm. Legitimate therapeutic clinics are open after 9pm? Are we supposed to believe that Jack was the most naive guy in Toronto? Regardless of what services Jack was actually receiving, patronizing such an establishment is a betrayal of the feminist principles Jack says he fights for. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 "He's claiming he got a legitimate massage, but the issue here is it's clear it was a rub-and-tug and most people in society would know that when they go in. I'd be very surprised that a very smart politician would not have known ... and Jack was very smart." -Toronto councillor Giorgio Mammoliti Jack says that he had no idea what kind of place it actually was. Really? It's called "The Velvet Touch". It's located in a district known for bawdy houses. They had a "red-light/green light" warning system. Jack walked in there at 9pm. Legitimate therapeutic clinics are open after 9pm? Are we supposed to believe that Jack was the most naive guy in Toronto? Regardless of what services Jack was actually receiving, patronizing such an establishment is a betrayal of the feminist principles Jack says he fights for. -k What a reliable source was have here. He claims in one sentence there were no complaint, and in the other that everyone new this was a bawdy house. Nice to know the citizens of Toronto didn't complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 What a reliable source was have here. He claims in one sentence there were no complaint, and in the other that everyone new this was a bawdy house. Nice to know the citizens of Toronto didn't complain. Maybe the customers were really satisfied. What's your point? That Jack had no way of knowing what kind of place he was walking into because there had been no complaints? Did Jack decide which massage parlour to visit by sifting through complaints from the public and picking one that nobody had complained about? Would Jack have known not to go into that establishment if only somebody had filed a complaint with the police? I'm honestly perplexed as to what argument you're trying to make. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Just a quick question. What's wrong with what Layton did if he did get escort services at the massage parlour? I know several guys his age who get it all the time?! I would too if I was his age I think. Unless I'm missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) It's called "The Velvet Touch". It's located in a district known for bawdy houses. They had a "red-light/green light" warning system. Jack walked in there at 9pm. Legitimate therapeutic clinics are open after 9pm?It's crazy. All of information we are getting is showing there is no way this place could have been mistaken for anthing but what it was. Yet NDP supporter want to hang their hat on the 'no complaints' angle. Are we supposed to believe that Jack was the most naive guy in Toronto?Apparently so. Edited May 1, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 The Toronto police investigation into the leak of the massage story will keep this thing alive. If there's more to it than Layton admits, he'd better hope this probe doesn't unearth information he would rather keep out of the public domain. The Toronto police investigation into the leak of the massage story will keep this thing alive. If there's more to it than Harper admits, he'd better hope this probe doesn't unearth information he would rather keep from the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Maybe the customers were really satisfied. When the cop let Layton go apparently he was seen getting on his bicycle and riding off. I've had plenty of full body massages and afterward felt like a limp rag from its soothing all over effect. The last thing I could have been able to do afterward was drive a bike let alone in a straight line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) I'm honestly perplexed as to what argument you're trying to make. -k No surprise that you are perplexed at the point I am making, that I have made all along. The police didn't see anything wrong or illegal in whatLayton was doing. Idle speculations borne of nothing more than dislike for the man's policies is quite frankly pathetic. That's my point. Edited May 1, 2011 by CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 When the cop let Layton go apparently he was seen getting on his bicycle and riding off. I've had plenty of full body massages and afterward felt like a limp rag from its soothing all over effect. The last thing I could have been able to do afterward was drive a bike let alone in a straight line. And how many people do you know would be able to bike in a straight line right after getting ahem assisted by a prostitute? How many people do you know would be biking to go visit a prostitute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovik Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) I never bothered to read the 47 pages in the thread. This is what I believe; those who are outraged by this were not going to vote NDP in the first place (I suspect diehard Con and Lib supporters). All others will see this as what it really is; a smear campaign. They are either going to ignore this and decide who to vote for as per normal or this may actually persuade them to vote NDP as a way to show their displeasure at this american-style politics. And many will assume that someone in either the Conservative or Liberal campaign was behind this (be it true or false). Edited May 1, 2011 by Rovik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Just a quick question. What's wrong with what Layton did if he did get escort services at the massage parlour? I know several guys his age who get it all the time?! I would too if I was his age I think. Unless I'm missing something here? It supports organized crime and the exploitation of young foreign women, if this was indeed a Triad-run whorehouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Just a quick question. What's wrong with what Layton did if he did get escort services at the massage parlour? I know several guys his age who get it all the time?! I would too if I was his age I think. Unless I'm missing something here? My objection to what Layton did is nothing to do with the idea that he may have paid for sexual services. My objection is that he was patronizing an establishment that's almost certainly a criminal operation that exploits women. He should have known what kind of place he was going to, or at least should have figured it out very quickly. No surprise that you are perplexed at the point I am making, that I have made all along. The police didn't see anything wrong or illegal in waht Layton was doing. Idle speculations borne of nothing more than dislike for the man's policies is quite frankly pathetic. That's my point. And my point has nothing to do with what services Jack may or may not have received at all. My point is that Jack shouldn't have been at a place like that in the first place. If you're a pacifist, you shouldn't buy UFC products. Your money is supporting violent sport, even if you never throw a punch yourself. If you're an animal rights supporter, you don't go to the cock-fights. Your money is supporting cruelty to animals, even if you never harm a chicken yourself. If you're a feminist, you don't go to the Velvet Touch Open-All-Night Red-Light-Green-Light Massage Parlour. Your money is most likely supporting a criminal enterprise that preys on vulnerable women, even if you don't order the "happy ending". A real fighter for dignity and equality for women would have got his ass out of there the moment he realized what kind of place it was. A real fighter for dignity and equality for women probably wouldn't have been biking around Chinatown after 9pm looking for a massage in the first place. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 My objection to what Layton did is nothing to do with the idea that he may have paid for sexual services. My objection is that he was patronizing an establishment that's almost certainly a criminal operation that exploits women. He should have known what kind of place he was going to, or at least should have figured it out very quickly. And my point has nothing to do with what services Jack may or may not have received at all. My point is that Jack shouldn't have been at a place like that in the first place. If you're a pacifist, you shouldn't buy UFC products. Your money is supporting violent sport, even if you never throw a punch yourself. If you're an animal rights supporter, you don't go to the cock-fights. Your money is supporting cruelty to animals, even if you never harm a chicken yourself. If you're a feminist, you don't go to the Velvet Touch Open-All-Night Red-Light-Green-Light Massage Parlour. Your money is most likely supporting a criminal enterprise that preys on vulnerable women, even if you don't order the "happy ending". A real fighter for dignity and equality for women would have got his ass out of there the moment he realized what kind of place it was. A real fighter for dignity and equality for women probably wouldn't have been biking around Chinatown after 9pm looking for a massage in the first place. -k You knew he was biking around Chinatown, instead of just going directly there? My my my, you know a lot. BTW, you'll notice that he left the moment he was told by police about their suspicions, and never came back. Oh well, we should not let known facts get in the way of idle speculations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 You knew he was biking around Chinatown, instead of just going directly there? My my my, you know a lot. I'm wondering: if Jack knew exactly where he was going, rather than biking around... do you think that makes Jack's story look better, or worse? I know what I'm thinking, but I'd like to hear your answer. BTW, you'll notice that he left the moment he was told by police about their suspicions, and never came back. Oh well, we should not let known facts get in the way of idle speculations. What was he going to do? Hang around? Go back to a place the cops had warned him about once already? Of course he never went back. Simple question: do you really believe Jack had no idea what kind of establishment this was? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) Simple question: do you really believe the CPC had nothing to do with the illegal leak of the police report? -b Edited May 1, 2011 by BubberMiley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome Rob Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Just a quick question. What's wrong with what Layton did if he did get escort services at the massage parlour? I know several guys his age who get it all the time?! I would too if I was his age I think. Unless I'm missing something here? Nothing. Even more, it was 15 years ago. The important thing is his reaction today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Simple question: do you really believe Jack had no idea what kind of establishment this was? Nobody believes it. Of course he knew. It's a whore house, plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome Rob Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Simple question: do you really believe the CPC had nothing to do with the illegal leak of the police report? -b Yes. How many riding's are they in direct competition with the NDP for, and how many more do they split the vote? If it was them, and they get caught, they'll lose far more than they ever could have hoped to gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Simple question: do you really believe the CPC had nothing to do with the illegal leak of the police report? -b I find the Liberals the more likely suspect, Bubbles. Jonathan Kay says a Liberal operative offered him this scoop 2 years ago. They're far more entrenched in Toronto. This guy Giorgio Mammoliti that was quoted in these articles is a Liberal. The Liberals are fighting for their survival, and are in full panic mode. The only evidence pointing to the Conservatives is that Stephen Harper is a mean guy. I think the Liberals are the far more likely suspect. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 I'm wondering: if Jack knew exactly where he was going, rather than biking around... do you think that makes Jack's story look better, or worse? I know what I'm thinking, but I'd like to hear your answer. Doesn't make a difference, but well, YOU are the one making assumptions, not I. What was he going to do? Hang around? Go back to a place the cops had warned him about once already? Of course he never went back. Here you. He was told about the place, and never went back. The end. Simple question: do you really believe Jack had no idea what kind of establishment this was? Based on the FACTS that are know, including the police notes, I have no reason to believe otherwise. If you or anyone has FACTS that's say otherwise, present them. "He must have known", "he should have known" and "it's in Chinatown" do not qualify as relevant facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 When the cop let Layton go apparently he was seen getting on his bicycle and riding off. I've had plenty of full body massages and afterward felt like a limp rag from its soothing all over effect. The last thing I could have been able to do afterward was drive a bike let alone in a straight line. Yet more stupid anecdotal evidence. Well, I'll throw mine into the ring: I get a 90 minute massage once a month. As soon as I get home I change into running clothes and go for a 8 to 10k run. Up a little mountain named "Little mountain." Which has grades of 20%+. So, no, just because you are an out of shape marshmallow after a massage does not mean others are too. /of stupid anecdotal evidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 It's crazy. All of information we are getting is showing there is no way this place could have been mistaken for anthing but what it was. Yet NDP supporter want to hang their hat on the 'no complaints' angle. I'll just hang my hat on the police report. Also known as the KNOWN FACTS on what took place in that location at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 I find the Liberals the more likely suspect, Bubbles. Jonathan Kay says a Liberal operative offered him this scoop 2 years ago. They're far more entrenched in Toronto. This guy Giorgio Mammoliti that was quoted in these articles is a Liberal. The Liberals are fighting for their survival, and are in full panic mode. The only evidence pointing to the Conservatives is that Stephen Harper is a mean guy. I think the Liberals are the far more likely suspect. -k I'm deferring judgment on it, and my guess (pure guess, yes) is that neither party was involved. But if one were, I think the Liberals the more likely culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Nobody believes it. Of course he knew. It's a whore house, plain and simple. Thanks for confirming that the two cops were utterly incompetant in not arresting Layton on the spot. After all, they knew that he knew, but nothing of that appeared in their notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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