game of thrones

[Boges]

It is a Song of Ice and Fire. We know where the Ice is coming from- north of the Wall. And now we know or I can guess that the Fire is coming from Bravos in the form of Danerys, a Dothraki horde, the Unsullied and three dragons breathing Fire to take on the Walkers. The Wildlings must be involved too, or they can never go home again.. Will the final battle be fought at Winterfell, where it all began, after Ramsay Bolton has been eliminated?

I think many believe Ice and Fire is a reference to R+L=J

[kimmy]

I don't see The Dragon Mistress vs The Slavers taking too long to polish off. The Salvers will backtrack on their agreement to behave themseleves

She'll turn the Dothraki loose on the Masters of the two slaver cities. They refused to be bribed by the Slave Masters with the promise of 10000 horses. Now they can just take the horses, which is more their style But they won;t want the cities themselves, not their style- the slaves will end up as masters in their cities.

I think the real conflict there isn't Dany vs the slavers, but rather Dany vs Tyrion. The deal he struck goes against everything she stands for, and I expect she'll flip her shit when she finds out what he's done.

I also wonder if the civil war in Kings Landing will take long to play out. The Tyrells will align with the Lannisters just long enough to retrieve their kin from prison. After that, they'll abandon Kings Landing, go home and let the Lannisters duke it out with The Sparrows. They have had enough grief in that relationship.

I think I disagree with you here. Lady Tyrell got into this business to make her grand-daughter the Queen. I don't think she's going to be satisfied with just getting her out of King's Landing alive.

If she gets her armies into King's Landing unopposed, I doubt she's planning on having them leave until Cersei's done for. She can probably use Margaery to get Tommen on board. Kevan Lannister isn't overly impressed with Cersei, and I doubt he'd stick his neck out too far to protect Cersei. And I'm skeptical the City Guard could stand up to the Tyrell forces regardless. The City Guard might have been pretty tough in stabbing a modest contingent of Stark soldiers in the backs, but I doubt they're equipped to deal with the full force of what's now the richest house in Westeros and one of the two that hasn't been depleted by war.

If Olenna gets her army inside the city gates, she's probably not going to take them out until she gets things sorted out to her liking. She knows darned well that Cersei is the one who set up Margaery and Loras, and she's not going to forget it. Of course, I doubt Cersei is naive to any of this, and I'm sure she must have some plans of her own. I wonder if Jaime will end up acting as a peacemaker or mediator or voice of reason between the two.

The Bastard Bowl will be nasty, but there are some forces gathering to oppose him: Jon Snow and the Wildlings(good band name), the Ironborn, Baelish and The Aerie, and likely the Umbers.

I wrote earlier, and I still believe, that Ramsay is going to get it. Hubris is the kiss of death on this show, and deciding to shank his dad and run the show himself was the ultimate act of hubris. He might be cunning and ruthless but he has no idea how to do politics or diplomacy. He and that Karstark goon will find themselves alone and overmatched.

But the real battle is yet to appear: White Walkers vs Everybody. The initial premise and threat from the first episode Game of Thrones was: winter is coming. Winter does not mean cold and snow, it means the White Walkers.

It is a Song of Ice and Fire. We know where the Ice is coming from- north of the Wall. And now we know or I can guess that the Fire is coming from Bravos in the form of Danerys, a Dothraki horde, the Unsullied and three dragons breathing Fire to take on the Walkers. The Wildlings must be involved too, or they can never go home again.. Will the final battle be fought at Winterfell, where it all began, after Ramsay Bolton has been eliminated?

What if the humans never get united and can't focus on the real threat until it's too late? What if they're so busy fighting among themselves that they never fight the real enemy? What if that's the real meaning of the show? The triviality and futility of petty human vanities and squabbles in the face of unfeeling, impersonal, eternal forces that simply don't care about any of it? Orson STHMATH the beetles!

-k

[Boges]

Neither Bolton or Snow realize that the Knights of the Vale are rallying behind the Starks. I suspect we'll see an episode where the the Wildling/North forces are being overwhelmed only to be saved by Littlefinger just in the knick of time.

[kimmy]

Is that really the plan, though? It seems totally out of character for Littlefinger to be so brash. "Hey, let's go fight a war!" seems totally out of character for him, doesn't it? He's constructed a flawless excuse to attack the Boltons, but I can't help think there might be another angle.

-k

[overthere]

I think the real conflict there isn't Dany vs the slavers, but rather Dany vs Tyrion. The deal he struck goes against everything she stands for, and I expect she'll flip her shit when she finds out what he's done.

Possible, but there are also other outcomes. Actually, she will be pissed but she is also a queen-in-training and has been battered enough to recognize she needs some help. Tyrion provides that in the form of leadership and experience she does not have, nor does she have anybody around her with it other than him. The Harpies came within a whisker of killing her when she departed the scene, and she might now have the maturity to recognize the value of buying time. That won't matter if the Harpies continue their assault on her- she now has for the first time the means to eliminate them entirely if she chooses. She needs Tyrion, and knows it.

Dorne is also a wildcard in this biz.....

If Olenna gets her army inside the city gates, she's probably not going to take them out until she gets things sorted out to her liking.

Agree, but not for those reasons . Olennas choices are to get back her kids, then go to war far from home with both the Lannisters and the Sparrows. Or to get back her kids, then leave town and let the Lannisters fight it out with the Sparrows. It is obvious to her now that the throne and Kings Landing is a place with no future for her family. Since Tywin was killed, the center has crumbled and all the options for leadership of the Lannisters are grim for the Tyrells. Olenna won't want to be proxy leader for the dogs breakfast that has developed in Kings Landing. I reckon the Tyrells will bail out and cut their losses. They are still a potent force and can always return to mop up the debris when the Lannisters fight a populist rising against the Sparrows. But to me it makes sense for them to just retreat to the safety of Highgarden. The Lannisters are nearly spent as a force, Tommen Cersei and Laimie cannot take them anywhere. Tyrion could but he has left all that far behind now and is serving a greater cause.

What if the humans never get united and can't focus on the real threat until it's too late? What if they're so busy fighting among themselves that they never fight the real enemy? What if that's the real meaning of the show? The triviality and futility of petty human vanities and squabbles in the face of unfeeling, impersonal, eternal forces that simply don't care about any of it? Orson STHMATH the beetles!

Then everybody dies.

But I don't think that is Martins intention. Even if it was, I doubt that the new directors of the plot mean that to happen. To defeat the Walkers, the real enemy of humanity, there must be two elements in place. The first is leadership, and it is certainly looking like Dany and Snow are that element. The other missing element is battlefield tools to defeat the Walkers. How do you kill immortals? With fire- The Watch know they have to burn their dead......or they will return. The dragons will take care of that, en masse. Next season will sort out the Iron Throne. It will be Dany. The final season, if that is the final season, will be the ultimate battle with the Walkers.

[-1=e^ipi]

Hodor = Hold the Door

[Boges]

Hodor = Hold the Door

Wow, huge spoiler before the episode even aired.

So Bran is in a time travel loop? Hodor was hearing his future death. That might Eff up anyone. Hard to Reconcile that logically

Another dire wolf bites the dust.

[kimmy]

So THAT'S how the Iron Isles become relevant. As with Walder Frey and his bridge, so with Euron Greyjoy and his navy. Dany will get to Westeros if she pays his toll... marriage. If not, she's stuck in Essos behind a naval blockade. But, she could elude Euron's blockade... using sub-Meereens!

Yara and Theon escape, taking some quantity of ships apparently... but it's hard to see where they fit in the immediate future. Winterfell is landlocked, Castle Black is landlocked... they can't really help with the drama currently unfolding in the North. I assume that they'll be back in season 7. I also assume that Euron's fleet will arrive in Slaver's Bay toward the end of the season, just as Dany finishes mopping up and turning her attention west. Well, the entmoot turned out to be more interesting than I expected!

Bran! Fricken Bran you dumb-ass! Just had to go play with the zombies, didn'tcha. Poor Hodor... that was the grimmest "origin story" I can think of. So... with no Hodor and no wolf, Bran just has Meera left... she seems a capable sort, but they're not going to get too far if she has to drag him everywhere they go.

Sansa finally gets to do the kind of stuff her mother raised her for. Not just sewing, but also politicking. Not only did Cat Stark teacher this stuff from childhood, but she's also had the chance to watch up-close while Cersei, Tyrion, Lady Tyrell and Margie, and Littlefinger did their thing. How much of it rubbed off on her? She also has Ser Davos in her corner, who while not crafty and cunning like Tyrion and Varys, is at least a very astute man.

Very interesting that Littlefinger didn't mention that he had troops from the Vale marching north, or offer to pledge them to her cause. I would assume that means he anticipates being able to use them as a bargaining chip later on. "My forces could help, but in return I need something from you." Also interesting that he mentioned Blackfish Tully had retaken Riverrun from the Freys. Is that the truth, or did he deceive her? One would think that open warfare between the Freys and Tullys would be be a big news item in Westeros, and that Maester Aemon could verify that by sending out some ravens.

Jorah the Explorah gets sent off on a quest to heal himself. I would think that with the resources available in Meereen, she should have taken her with him. Another Red Priestess... who got Varys all agitated by mentioning stuff from his childhood, including the voice from the flames that said a name as his body-parts were being sacrificed. Was that name Daenarys Targaryen? Is that why he's been plotting on her behalf right from day 1?

I liked this episode... as events in the North continue to unfold and the finale involving Hodor was quite stunning. Even the Iron Isles stuff was more interesting this week, as finally we have an idea how they fit into the bigger picture. I assume that next week we'll be back in King's Landing with major drama involving royals, religious extremists, and FrankenMountains.

-k

[Shady]

Is that really the plan, though? It seems totally out of character for Littlefinger to be so brash. "Hey, let's go fight a war!" seems totally out of character for him, doesn't it? He's constructed a flawless excuse to attack the Boltons, but I can't help think there might be another angle.

-k

There always seems to be another angle with him. Although I still see him helping Sansa in the end to get back on her good side. I think he loves her.

[Shady]

Wow, huge spoiler before the episode even aired.

So Bran is in a time travel loop? Hodor was hearing his future death. That might Eff up anyone. Hard to Reconcile that logically

Another dire wolf bites the dust.

Yeah I wish they'd ease up on the dire wolves. Only one left I think. I guess they can always get more though.

[-1=e^ipi]

Yara and Theon escape, taking some quantity of ships apparently... but it's hard to see where they fit in the immediate future. Winterfell is landlocked, Castle Black is landlocked... they can't really help with the drama currently unfolding in the North.

Well Theon is allies with Sansa, thus indirectly Night's Watch + Vale + Riverlands, etc. They are screwed if they stay on the west coast, but if they were to run to the east coast of Westeros... say either Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, White Harbour (they are trying to recruit the Manderlys) or Gulltown, then they should be safe for a while. Euron is unlikely to waste time trying to chase them all the way to the east coast of Westeros.

Very interesting that Littlefinger didn't mention that he had troops from the Vale marching north, or offer to pledge them to her cause.

...He did...

Edited May 23, 2016 by -1=e^ipi

[-1=e^ipi]

What is interesting is that Petyr waited until after Sansa said she didn't want help to tell her about the riverlands. Maybe he was going to omit that information if Sansa wanted help, because then she would have asked Petyr to help liberate the riverlands with the vale's army (in which case Cersei would know, Petyr would be at war with Cersei and Petyr wouldn't be able to become warden of the North).

[Boges]

Is there a possibility that the The whole Riverlands will unite against the Boltons as Ramsay also killed a member of the Freys?

The fact that a Frey got murdered can't just be forgotten, they couldn't forget that Rob Stark married another woman.

[kimmy]

The Freys may not ever find out what really happened to Roose's wife. They may believe she was assassinated by the same Stark loyalists Ramsay claimed assassinated Roose. Stark loyalists would bear a grudge towards the Freys, after all.

The other problem is, I can't see the Tully and Frey houses uniting for any cause, ever. There's as much Tully blood on Walders' hands as Stark blood.

I anticipate Arya will give Walder the Meryn Trant treatment before the end of the series, unless Blackfish gets to Walder first. Withered old creep is going to get it.

-k

[Boges]

Anyone want to speculate on where The on and Yara are going? Can't be anywhere I Westeros that's friendly to the Greyjoys. Gotta be Essos right?

[-1=e^ipi]

I just speculated a few posts ago. The way I see it, the east coast of Westeros is safer than Essos since Euron plans to go to Essos anyway to marry the dragon queen and also because the east coast of Westeros has potential allies for Theon & Co + safe harbors. An alternative safe location is that they go to the North Coast of Essos, but short of Bravos there isn't much point in being there. A 3rd option is that they sail Westward into the abyss until they reach land (maybe they reach Asshai?), but that seems pointless and risky.

[Boges]

I've always wondered if the "world" is a globe here. No one has gone west to see if they can get to Eastern Essos? The Iron Island are actually relatively close to Essos when you think about it, unless we're using a flat earth theory.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Boges

[-1=e^ipi]

I've always wondered if the "world" is a globe here. No one has gone west to see if they can get to Eastern Essos? The Iron Island are actually relatively close to Essos when you think about it, unless we're using a flat earth theory.

Not really. Based on the known world, the size of westeros and the locations of various climates, one can calculate the size of a spherical planet. It is about the size of Earth. http://web.stanford.edu/group/anthropocene/cgi-bin/wordpress/westeros-today-and-the-size-of-the-game-of-thrones-planet/

If one projects the known world onto a sphere http://brilliantmaps.com/westeros/it is pretty clear that at least half of the northern hemisphere of the planet is missing and basically the entire southern hemisphere is missing. So what is west of the Iron Islands? Maybe just a giant pacific ocean. Perhaps a continent (Americatos?). But eventually you could get to Asshai. If it is just a giant pacific ocean, then perhaps it might be faster to get to Asshai by going west by taking advantage of ocean currents.

[Boges]

So book readers got their splooge on last night as they introduced a character called Cold Hands to save Bran and Meera. He ended up being Benjen Stark, who apparently, hasn't been revealed in the books.

Arya v Waif will be a great fight.

I see an interesting conflict coming up where Jamie is now being told to help the Frey's against the Tully's. At the same time Brienne is going to Riverrun to see if they'll help Sansa re-rake the North. I see a war on both fronts for the Blackfish.

Gilly is hawt!!! Sam can't go to the Citadel now can he? I wonder what his next play is. Perhaps go back to Castle Black with his Valyrian Sword. He knows they work against White Walkers.

So many of these Episodes end with Dany just doing something cool with dragon but not really doing anything at all. At the pace this show is moving, will Euron and his ships already be there waiting for Dany and Dario once they arrive back at Mereen?

Edited May 30, 2016 by Boges

[kimmy]

The final scene got me all riled up. It made me want to grab my sickle and mount up too! Our girl Dany sure knows how to work a crowd.

Finally! The long-awaited return of Walder Frey!

uh, I mean, Finally! The long-awaited return of Benjen Stark! So ... he's apparently a ... half-white-walker, half-human hybrid with a flaming morning-star and a direct hotline to the Three Eyed Raven?

Not much take-away from the Sam and Gilly subplot other than that Sam now has his very own Valyrian steel sword. Characters with Valyrian steel swords now include Sam, Jon, Brienne, and possibly Tommen (assuming he got Joffrey's sword when Joffrey died.) The Tarley estated looked pretty swank; House Tarley must be pretty loaded.

Speaking of loaded, House Tyrell marches into the capital and ... gets pwned by the Sparrow. That old dude is just too crafty. At least they got Margie out of jail. With Tommen and Margie clearly not on board with military action against the Faith... does that mean the Tyrell troops just march back to Highgarden?

Jaime has been kicked out of the Kings Guard and is being sent north to help Walder Frey recapture Riverrun from the Tully insurgency. And other houses are rising up against Frey as well. Jaime got captured trying to seige Riverrun once already. I can't help think he should just head west instead. Go back home and be the Lord of Casterly Rock, meet a nice girl and have some kids, bring Cersei back home when her trial by combat has been won by the Mountain. Wouldn't that make too much sense? I wonder if the purpose of his trip north is a reunion with Brienne.

And Arya has decided she doesn't want to be "no one" after all. She wants to be Arya, she's reclaimed Needle, and presumably she is going to head west and start crossing some names off her list. It looks like she will have to survive "the waif". If she does, will the Faceless Men just let her go?

-k

[kimmy]

I see an interesting conflict coming up where Jamie is now being told to help the Frey's against the Tully's. At the same time Brienne is going to Riverrun to see if they'll help Sansa re-rake the North. I see a war on both fronts for the Blackfish.

I was writing my post as you were writing yours! I was thinking the exact same thing.

House Frey and House Bolton both got promoted via their agreement with King Joffrey in exchange for their help in ending Robb Stark's rebellion. King's Landing owes them bigtime favors, and they appear to be calling in that debt. On the surface it looks like House Lannister, House Frey, House Bolton, and Northern Traitors vs House Stark, House Tully, and Northern Loyalists. And of course we still don't know how Littlefinger and The Vale will play into it, and I'm not 100% sure that Jaime will be all that excited about helping Walder and Ramsay. Jaime's heart clearly isn't in this, and he and Brienne had a unique bond that I can't help but think might change his mind.

Gilly is hawt!!! Sam can't go to the Citadel now can he? Wonder what his next play is. Perhaps go back to Castle Black with his Valyrian Sword. He knows they work against White Walkers.

It was Not Too Subtle how Lord Tarley casually mentioned that it was a Valyrian Steel ™ sword. They could have put flashing neon arrows above it and sign above it that said "QUEST OBJECT".

-k

[kimmy]

I looked over a few recaps today, and one of them thought that the casual mention of the Brothers Without Banners in the Frey scene might be a hint that we could actually see the Lady Stoneheart angle on TV after all. I'm not sure if that's good or not-so-good. Book-readers seemed very disappointed that it was left out of the show in season 4, but to me it didn't sound that great. Plus, we already have Zombie Mountain, Zombie Dondarrion, and Zombie Jon Snow running around Westeros. Add in Zombie Cat Stark and it'll start seeming more like iZombie than Game of Thrones. Resurrections seem a lot less miraculous if everybody's doing it.

Another recap I read made note of the parallels between the play Arya was watching and the dilemma she faced. Watching Lady Crane portray a mother's grief after King Joff gets poisoned brings home to Arya the significance of what she's about to do. It was also mentioned that when Arya points at Fake Sansa and tells Fake Cersei "Watch out for that one, she wants you dead!" the same could be said of Real Sansa and Real Cersei. I wonder if Real Sansa will ever have the chance to give Real Cersei what she has coming... or if somebody else will do it first?

A third recap mentioned that deciding to do the "right" thing instead of the "smart" thing might be Arya's fatal mistake, as with her father and brother. Maybe welching on her agreement with the Faceless Men just gets her killed. What if she duels the waif ... and gets killed? After spending this long with Arya's story, I can't see it ending like that... but how Game Of Thronesish would it be if that's what happened?

-k

[-1=e^ipi]

I looked over a few recaps today, and one of them thought that the casual mention of the Brothers Without Banners in the Frey scene might be a hint that we could actually see the Lady Stoneheart angle on TV after all. I'm not sure if that's good or not-so-good. Book-readers seemed very disappointed that it was left out of the show in season 4, but to me it didn't sound that great. Plus, we already have Zombie Mountain, Zombie Dondarrion, and Zombie Jon Snow running around Westeros. Add in Zombie Cat Stark and it'll start seeming more like iZombie than Game of Thrones. Resurrections seem a lot less miraculous if everybody's doing it.

Maybe that's the point. There are no miracles. There are simply different laws of physics. And if some people can't make people rise from the dead, then why wouldn't others be able to repeat that elsewhere?

For example, perhaps the chaotic winters / summers are due to the planet being in a binary system with a star and a black hole or something. And 'magic' is powered by some sort of radiation (again, different laws of physics) coming from the black hole, so it only gets powerful when the planet gets closer to the black hole.

Edited May 31, 2016 by -1=e^ipi

[Boges]

So with Arya, they left it with her turning off the lights. She's trained to fight blind, has the Waif?

I'm sure she'll be fine. Also this could be a bigger test for her, to not kill someone who doesn't deserve to be killed even if she was told, then killing the Waif who's acting as jealous as anyone on the show.

[kimmy]

So with Arya, they left it with her turning off the lights. She's trained to fight blind, has the Waif?

oooh! Good point! I didn't pick up on the significance of that. She can go Daredevil style on that punk-ass little snitch!

I'm sure she'll be fine. Also this could be a bigger test for her, to not kill someone who doesn't deserve to be killed even if she was told, then killing the Waif who's acting as jealous as anyone on the show.

Well, that's a good point too. The waif can't really be "no one" if she still harbors feelings like that, can she?

However, I can't see Arya staying with the Faceless Men... if she has to leave behind all the Stark drama to become a Faceless Man, she doesn't really have a role on the show anymore, does she? If she truly becomes No One, then she has no further need of that list of hers.

-k