game of thrones

[Boges]

Or they go to the iron islands, or they go to the vale, or they go to karhold or something (northern allies) or they go to the river lands (harrenhall, Tulleys, Reeds). They can go in pretty much any direction and will find allies that can protect them.

That would be extremely pointless. It wouldn't really advance Theon's plot, and it would make Sansa's plot too divergent from the books.

1. It allows them to avoid creating the new character of Jeyne Poole, which helps save time for a series that only has 10 episodes per season. It also gives Sansa and the Boltons more scenes.

2. It allows for a smoother transition between season 5 (which concentrates on Northern politics and the Stannis-Bolton conflict) and season 6 (which will probably concentrate on Vale and Iron Island politics).

3. It arguably gives Petyr Baelish an excuse to declare war on Roose Bolton later on.

4. It will create conflict between Roose and Ramsey since it was Ramsey's fault for mistreating his bride that she ran away (after Roose arranged such a politically important marriage).

Very good response. This will drive a wedge between Roose and Ramsay and give The Vale cause to invade the North.

The Jeyne Poole story needed to be addressed.The show did more with Sansa than the books have.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Boges

[overthere]

I'm still not sure what Kimmy expects of Sansa given her circumstances from day 1.

Littlefinger has enough command of the Vale to invade somebody, anybody?

When did that happen?

I thought he was regarded as some kind usurper pimp by the locals. Tossing his wife down a hole would not change that perception much.

We are and will be seeing some of Book 6 storylines now and in the early parts of next season, since Geo Martin is part and parcel of the production team.

[-1=e^ipi]

Littlefinger has enough command of the Vale to invade somebody, anybody?

When did that happen?

Not yet. But Cersei has agreed for Petyr to be Warden of the North once he takes out the winner of Bolton vs Stannis. Once Sansa comes back to him, Petyr will have an excuse to invade the North (and Sansa may stumble upon some nobel houses loyal to the Starks along the way, giving Petyr allies). Plus many in the Vale wanted to side with the North and Riverlands in the war of 5 kings and value honour highly, so would be willing to go to war anyway.

But does Petyr have enough command of the Vale to invade the North? Not yet. But that is what season 6 is for (Petyr will establish control over the vale, and probably also deal with the situation in King's Landing by using Gendry to help the Tyrells). So come season 7, then we may see the start of the war between the Boltons and Petyr (plus conflict between Roose and Ramsey).

Edit: This scene is particularly relevant to what I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_V8210JoCo

Ramsey said that he will 'make Sansa happy' and 'I'll never hurt her, you have my word'. It's a perfect setup to give Petyr an excuse to invade the North.

Edited June 22, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

[kimmy]

Not yet. But Cersei has agreed for Petyr to be Warden of the North once he takes out the winner of Bolton vs Stannis. Once Sansa comes back to him, Petyr will have an excuse to invade the North (and Sansa may stumble upon some nobel houses loyal to the Starks along the way, giving Petyr allies). Plus many in the Vale wanted to side with the North and Riverlands in the war of 5 kings and value honour highly, so would be willing to go to war anyway.

But does Petyr have enough command of the Vale to invade the North? Not yet. But that is what season 6 is for (Petyr will establish control over the vale, and probably also deal with the situation in King's Landing by using Gendry to help the Tyrells). So come season 7, then we may see the start of the war between the Boltons and Petyr (plus conflict between Roose and Ramsey).

...

Ramsey said that he will 'make Sansa happy' and 'I'll never hurt her, you have my word'. It's a perfect setup to give Petyr an excuse to invade the North.

That doesn't even make any sense. The Vale is going to go to war over a case of spousal battery? Beyond its borders? Involving a couple of which neither of whom have any ties to the Vale? I can't picture it. If she was Sansa Arryn instead of Sansa Stark, maybe...

-k

[-1=e^ipi]

But it's the norm in Westeros for kingdoms to go to war due to ruling family conflicts, is it not? Isn't that what the people have come to expect? So if the new ruler of the Vale (Petyr) wants to go to war due to what Ramsay did to Sansa (also what Roose did to Robb Stark) then I doubt the common people would find it unusual. The main issue is getting the Vale's nobility on Petyr's side.

[kimmy]

I'm still not sure what Kimmy expects of Sansa given her circumstances from day 1.

I don't think I was mysterious... I wanted the story line to progress in a way that would have shown some development in her character.

Suppose that instead of trusting her fate to a half-baked plan involving a mentally crippled idiot putting a candle in the window of a tower to summon some savior... suppose she'd taken some initiative of her own for a change?

Suppose that instead of immediately blabbing her secret plan to Ramsay's pawn-- a mental retard who stabbed her family in the back just a few years earlier-- Sansa had kept that to herself and interacted only with that elderly woman who brought her the message. To gather information, send messages to other Stark loyalists, perhaps arrange an assassination. What if Littlefinger had left Sansa some poison, like one of those clever little jewels that were used on Joffrey?

She's learned first hand from watching Cersei operate, she's been taken under Littlefinger's wing and learned from him as well, she's seen Margaery Tyrrell wrap people around her finger... but she still can't do anything for herself? She's endured psychological torture from Joffrey and regular beatings at the hands of Joffrey's guards... but she folds like a cheap tent after one night with Ramsay? She's still as weak and vulnerable as she was in season one?

That's the opposite of character development. Off to find a new savior. Hurray.

Supposing Stannis is still alive (if you don't see the corpse, you can't be sure, right?) then perhaps they could redeem Sansa by having her align with him. She could travel with him and help him persuade other lords of the north to ally with him. Stannis lost in large measure because he didn't know the North, didn't have local supporters or local infrastructure. Sansa could change that for him. The other lords would support him because they hate the Boltons and would like to see the Starks back in charge at Winterfell. If Sansa went around with him to visit the other great houses of the north, they would join with Stannis out of loyalty to the Starks and hatred of the Boltons. In return for putting her in charge of Winterfell, Sansa would pledge to support his bid for the Iron Throne. She could even broker a meeting between Littlefinger and Stannis, perhaps Littlefinger would find a way to gain some great favor from Stannis in return for support from the Vale.

But it sounds as if perhaps the Iron Isles are the new hotness and matters in the North are settled. So I doubt they'll have anything significant for Sansa to do in season 6 either.

-k

[kimmy]

But it's the norm in Westeros for kingdoms to go to war due to ruling family conflicts, is it not? Isn't that what the people have come to expect? So if the new ruler of the Vale (Petyr) wants to go to war due to what Ramsay did to Sansa (also what Roose did to Robb Stark) then I doubt the common people would find it unusual. The main issue is getting the Vale's nobility on Petyr's side.

I gather the Vale are somewhat isolationist and not given to going to war lightly. The Vale didn't get involved in the war, why would they get involved now that it's over?

Here's an excuse Littlefinger could use to march on Winterfell: "Sansa Stark is to be put on trial for the murder of King Joffrey, and King Tommen has commanded that I take troops from the Vale to Winterfell to take her, by force if necessary."

-k

[overthere]

Having raised teenagers, perhaps my expectations are less than yours....

[kimmy]

So apparently when Ramsay Bolton isn't terrorizing the North and skinning people alive, he's working on his career as a singer-songwriter.

He's really awful! But everybody's afraid to tell him so, because they're afraid he'll mutilate them.

"Reek? Reek! There you are! Come listen to my new song! I call it... Bang-Bang."

"Well, Reek? What do you think?"

"It's ... master, please..."

"Reek? What is it? You should never be afraid to speak your mind to me. I value honesty!"

"It's ..."

"Yes, Reek...?"

"It's ... lovely, master. It's lovely. Lovely."

"Thank you, Reek. I am always glad to hear your opinion. I have another new song I'd like to play for you too--"

"Nooooo, master, pleeeeease no more..."

Even though he sucks, he's still not as terrible as that other Bolton brother, Michael.

-k

Edited July 12, 2015 by kimmy

[-1=e^ipi]

I just realized something.

If Theon Greyjoy is with Sansa, and Sansa eventually meets up with Petyr Baelish, then Petyr may gain control of Theon. If Petyr helps Theon get revenge on the Boltons, then Theon may become loyal to Petyr, opening up the possibility of Petyr gaining indirect control of the Iron Islands. So Petyr is in a good spot to gain control of the North, the Vale, the Riverlands and the Iron Islands.

[-1=e^ipi]

Here is some more evidence that may add to the idea that Little Finger has Gendry.

- Why did Gendry leave King's Landing in the first place? Well apparently his master decided that he didn't want him around anymore so sent Gendry to the wall. But why would a master get rid of a very skilled apprentice, and right before the chaos in King's Landing was about to occur. It seems very unlikely unless someone paid the master to send Gendry to the wall. Who would have the money and motive to pay off Gendry's master in order to keep Gendry alive? Little Finger.

- Little Finger did keep around a hoar who had a child with King Robert. So clearly he understands the sons of Robert to be useful pawns

Edited August 4, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

[kimmy]

We already saw Petyr's "gift" to Olenna, and the ultimate effect was Cersei's walk of shame in episode 10.

In other GoT news, Max von Sydow has supposedly been cast as the Three Eyed Raven.

I think this rumor is probably fake, since:

-von Sydow has only two eyes,

-and is clearly not a raven.

-k

[Boges]

3 eyed Raven is dude attached to the tree no? Bran storyline returns.

[-1=e^ipi]

How can you give someone a gift if it's not yours to give? Lancel being the 'gift' to Olenna doesn't make sense since Petyr has no control over Lancel and it doesn't free any of the Tyrells.

[Mighty AC]

How can you give someone a gift if it's not yours to give? Lancel being the 'gift' to Olenna doesn't make sense since Petyr has no control over Lancel and it doesn't free any of the Tyrells.

Isn't Petyr the master of getting what he wants without any direct power? A shrewd observer like Littlefinger would expect a born again puritan to do his "moral" duty with information like that.

[Boges]

We have a new trailer. Jon Snow looks pretty dead to me.

https://youtu.be/5vbEcTIAdPs

[Moonlight Graham]

We have a new trailer. Jon Snow looks pretty dead to me.

https://youtu.be/5vbEcTIAdPs

For now. He'll be back.

[overthere]

The trailer also shows the Red Queen getting her kit off. I think it is to 'revive' Jon boy.

And Bran returns, finally

[Boges]

https://youtu.be/EI0ib1NErqg

[Guest]

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things."

[Guest]

This is a funny summary map of season 5. http://www.sbnation.com/a/game-of-thrones-2016

This summary of Storm's End for example:

Despite King Robert siring more children than Antonio Cromartie, House Baratheon is essentially defunct, even though the current king (Tommen) bears the name. We all know that Tommen is the dim-witted, cat-petting production of Lannister incest; Stannis burned his only child for good luck (NOTE: not recommended); and Renly, the third Baratheon brother, wasn’t, ahem, biologically inclined to produce an heir. And the Lannisters, because they’re dicks, even had all of Robert’s bastards killed -- all except Gendry the Hunky Blacksmith, missing since he rowed off into the night in Season 3.

[Guest]

Ten actors have been approached by HBO for a Robert's Rebellion, GOT prequel movie. http://intvseries.com/10-actors-are-allegedly-approached-by-hbo-for-roberts-rebellion-got-prequel-movie/3

That would be a great movie plot. There is probably room for a two or three film prequel series.

[Boges]

The trailers indicate a Tower of Joy flashback. A battle in the book involving Ned Stark trying to save his sister (some suspect the actual mother of Jon Snow)

[Guest]

So Melisandre can use "glamors" or a trinket/body part/etc belonging to someone else to alter her appearance or even the appearance of others. She uses the ruby necklace to appear young. I recall that in the books she used the same magic to make the Lord Of Bones look like Mance Rayder and vice versa so Mance could escape execution. Mance had to wear the bones to maintain false appearance.

I don't recall if the books explained if this is the same method used by the servants of the Many Faced God, like Jaqn H'ghar, to change appearances. I wonder if the faces they keep in the Hall are the "glamors" that allow them to assume the appearance of the dead person.

Anyway, there was the drunken Red Priest, Thoros, who resurrected Barick Dondarrion after he was killed by the Hound in Season 3. I expect Melisandre will do the same for Lord Commander Snow next episode.

I was hoping that Sansa would have been more brave or stronger in her escape, instead of being saved yet again. Sansa the strong has been painfully slow in the making. I also hope Sir Alisser is killed in an epic way; maybe ripped in half by Wun Wun.

[Boges]

Anyway, there was the drunken Red Priest, Thoros, who resurrected Barick Dondarrion after he was killed by the Hound in Season 3. I expect Melisandre will do the same for Lord Commander Snow next episode.

Everyone who watches the show and/or reads the books thinks that.

I was hoping that Sansa would have been more brave or stronger in her escape, instead of being saved yet again. Sansa the strong has been painfully slow in the making.

So Reek and her were going to take out a squad of mounted Bolton Knights without any weapons? Why are you blaming the victim Slick?!?!?! SHAME!!!!!

Brienne has finally been able to fulfill her vow to Caitlyn Stark. Well half her vow. That foursome should be entertaining.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Boges