game of thrones

[Bonam]

I enjoyed this week's episode as well.

We didn't see any of Jon and the gang at the Wall this week, and no sign of Daenarys and her barbarian horde, either, though she was much-discussed. Instead, we got to meet Catelyn's sister, and spend a little time with the Lannister twins. Which was a good thing, because up until this episode they have been more or less stock villains. Cersei the scheming heartless bitch, Jaime the smug and sneering douchebag. -k

Haha, I was actually a bit disturbed with that scene, with Lysa breastfeeding that kid of hers who looked like, what, 5-6? The Eyrie doesn't look at all like I imagined it based on the book description. Except the cell where they threw Tyrion, that was spot on.

The chat between Cersei and King Robert kind of put her in a different light. It was not surprising that they hate each other... but a little surprising that he's always hated her, and quite surprising that she actually seemed to care. It made me feel just a little sympathy for her, or at least made her seem like a human being for the first time on the show.

Cersei is definitely a heartless bitch, whether she ever cared about Robert or not. But Robert was never happy after the woman he was supposed to marry (Ned's sister) died. I have more sympathy for Robert, having to marry Cersei to keep the realm together. If it was me, I woulda left the crown on the throne and run off into the woods somewhere to avoid that woman...

And I liked seeing Jaime Lannister throw down with Ned Stark. Jaime, up until now, has been just a rich-guy in silk shirts with a droll sense of humor and a smug, sneering contempt for pretty much everybody except his siblings. The show hadn't hinted at him being anything more than a dastardly pretty-boy who crippled a small boy without a moment's regret. There's a character we're all used to seeing, the cowardly villain who hides behind his minions and does everything to avoid the righteous fury of our hero; our hero inevitably smacks the shit out of him in a climactic battle. And pretty clearly... Jaime Lannister is the exact opposite of that guy. He hasn't the slightest fear of Stark, and for good reason apparently. He can back up his attitude with his sword. He picked a fight with the biggest dog in the yard and made his point.

Kind of... it was one of his men that stabbed Ned in the back of the leg while they were fighting. Jaime and Ned were fairly well matched in the fight as portrayed in the show. But yes, Jaime doesn't fear battle, he is the commander of the Kingsguard, the most elite group of knights in the Seven Kingdoms. He also fought in Robert Baratheon's rebellion against the mad king, and earned well his epiphet "kingslayer". He doesn't mind getting his hands dirty. Just wait until you meet his dad though...

But realistically, Jaime had nothing to fear from Stark... Ned wouldn't have killed him even if he had gained the upper hand. No longer being the Hand of the King, and with his daughters in the capital, his household guards dead... if he had killed Jaime, the Queen would probably have had him and his daughters executed. On the other hand, Jaime could freely kill Ned if he gained the upper hand without anyone to seek retribution.

You can't blame Jaime for being upset that they abducted his brother, can you?

You can't, but it's just an excuse, the Lannister siblings don't have much love for each other. Not even Jaime and Cersei despite their incestuous relations in the first episode. That being said, I do think there are some grey areas there. The Starks certainly aren't the perfect good guys either.

And ... the overheard conversation ("The Lion and the Wolf will be at each other's throats", meaning the Lannisters and Starks...) makes one wonder if all of them are being played. And how does the angle about Jon Arryn seeking out Robert's illegitimate offspring figure into things? And by the way, does anybody remember that there were frozen zombies in the opening minutes of the very first episode? What happened to that story?

I'm gonna assume you don't actually want the answers to any of those questions

I don't like that they made Ser Loras Tyrell (the knight of flowers) and Lord Renley Baratheon (the king's brother) gay, they weren't in the books, and they just threw that in the TV show for no reason.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Bonam

[Bonam]

Wow! I didn't think there was anybody else out there who'd not just read the Silmarillion from start to finished but also enjoyed it. It's nice to know I'm not alone.

Not only did I read it from start to finish and enjoy it, I think I read it about ten times I love the chapter where the Noldor swear Feanor's oath, some awesome lines there ("we alone shall be the masters of the unsullied light..."), the fifth battle, and the Akallabeth.

I also read a lot of the other compilations of Tolkien's earlier works: The Book of Lost Tales I & II, Unfinished Tales, and The Children of Hurin. The one thing I couldn't get through was Christopher Tolkien's 12 (or was it 13?) volume "History of Middle-Earth"... way too much commentary and not enough of J.R.R's actual writing. But those books were very cool for their expanded accounts of key moments like the leadup to the Fifth Battle and the Fall of Gondolin. They also have some interesting accounts of events not at all mentioned in the Silmarillion or LoTR.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Bonam

[Remiel]

But realistically, Jaime had nothing to fear from Stark... Ned wouldn't have killed him even if he had gained the upper hand. No longer being the Hand of the King, and with his daughters in the capital, his household guards dead... if he had killed Jaime, the Queen would probably have had him and his daughters executed. On the other hand, Jaime could freely kill Ned if he gained the upper hand without anyone to seek retribution.

I would not be so sure of that. Even if Robert was close to wanting to kill Ned himself, he seems the sort of person who would not take kindly to anyone else killing him. I think one needs to be careful about inferring things from later events.

I don't like that they made Ser Loras Tyrell (the knight of flowers) and Lord Renley Baratheon (the king's brother) gay, they weren't in the books, and they just threw that in the TV show for no reason.

Actually, the consensus on one of the other messageboards I am on, which is *FAR* more geeky than politics, is that it is strongly implied they are gay in the books. I just an kind of uncomfortable with how explicit they made it.

Not only did I read it from start to finish and enjoy it, I think I read it about ten times I love the chapter where the Noldor swear Feanor's oath, some awesome lines there ("we alone shall be the masters of the unsullied light..."), the fifth battle, and the Akallabeth.

I have read the Silmarillion as well, like the two of you, though perhaps not with the same kind of enthusiasm.

[kimmy]

I'm gonna assume you don't actually want the answers to any of those questions

Of course not. I'm glad you guys who've read the books have kept from spoiling the surprises.

I don't like that they made Ser Loras Tyrell (the knight of flowers) and Lord Renley Baratheon (the king's brother) gay, they weren't in the books, and they just threw that in the TV show for no reason.

I've just met Renly in the book. The Renly on the TV show seems like a small and wimpy little man, not the powerful-looking man described in the book. When Sansa first meets him, he's described thusly:

"His companion was a man near twenty whose armor was steel plate of a deep forest-green. He was the handsomest man Sansa had ever set eyes upon; tall and powerfully made, with jet-black hair that fell to his shoulders and framed a clean-shaven face, and laughing green eyes to match his armor. Cradled under one arm was an antlered helm, its magnificent rack shimmering in gold".

and a couple of chapters when Ned meets him:

"Renly had been a boy of eight when Robert won the throne, but he had grown into a man so like his brother that Ned found it disconcerting. Whenever he saw him, it was as if the years had slipped away and Robert stood before him, fresh from his victory on the Trident."

(Robert, at that age, had been described as a mountain among princes, a six and a half foot tall giant towered over other men, "muscled like a maiden's fantasy", who wielded a war-hammer that other men could barely lift.)

However, shortly after that, Renly and Littlefinger set about arguing about fashion, so maybe the speculation has some justification. As for Ser Loras... I suppose the Disco Armor should have been a clue.

But yeah, that scene was really... really... gay. I half expected the cast of Glee to appear and serenade them with some tunes from Cabaret.

-k

[Bonam]

This week's episode was another strong showing. The plot is starting to take shape.

[Remiel]

This week's episode was another strong showing. The plot is starting to take shape.

All the good things aside, did part of you cringe when the gold was melted in a pot over the fire?

[Bonam]

All the good things aside, did part of you cringe when the gold was melted in a pot over the fire?

Not really, I don't really expect that world to be scientifically accurate.

[bloodyminded]

I'm inclined to agree. The series must always make sense within its own world, which is similar but not identical to our own. So long as it feels right to us, there's some leeway allowed.

But I was surprised to see the little jerk offed so early; I assumed a long-term sibling rivalry. I like that the show has the stones to defy certain genre expectations and conventions.

Edited May 24, 2011 by bloodyminded

[kimmy]

I'm inclined to agree. The series must always make sense within its own world, which is similar but not identical to our own. So long as it feels right to us, there's some leeway allowed.

You guys took Remiel's question to be about the scientific inaccuracy of the scene... I assumed he was asking if we cringed because something grisly was about to happen.

I knew right away what was going to happen, and I did cringe.

But I was surprised to see the little jerk offed so early; I assumed a long-term sibling rivalry. I like that the show has the stones to defy certain genre expectations and conventions.

Early in the show it seemed like Viserys was going to be a major antagonist, and maybe him cashing out this early in the series was something you wouldn't have expected based on what you'd have assumed from the first episode or two. But a couple of episodes ago, when he got smacked down by her guard, and later when she stood up to him herself, the writing was on the wall. She (and we the viewer) were shown how little power he actually has. She saw him for the loser he is... figured it out for herself that he was never going to take back the throne no matter how much of an army she gave him. It happened pretty organically... the viewer's expectations for Viserys decline as Dany's esteem of him declines.

I gather from the name she's picked for her baby that she has every intention of carrying on Viserys' big dream, however.

-k

Edited May 26, 2011 by kimmy

[bloodyminded]

You guys took Remiel's question to be about the scientific inaccuracy of the scene... I assumed he was asking if we cringed because something grisly was about to happen.

I knew right away what was going to happen, and I did cringe.

Yeah, pretty nasty.

Early in the show it seemed like Viserys was going to be a major antagonist, and maybe him cashing out this early in the series was something you wouldn't have expected based on what you'd have assumed from the first episode or two. But a couple of episodes ago, when he got smacked down by her guard, and later when she stood up to him herself, the writing was on the wall. She (and we the viewer) were shown how little power he actually has. She saw him for the loser he is... figured it out for herself that he was never going to take back the throne no matter how much of an army she gave him. It happened pretty organically... the viewer's expectations for Viserys decline as Dany's esteem of him declines.

Yes, no question. But I took it as virtually a given--again, I think, based on expectations of how this sort of thing frequently works out--that Viserys was going to remain; outcast, yes, but scheming against her somehow.

I gather from the name she's picked for her baby that she has every intention of carrying on Viserys' big dream, however.

-k

Looks that way. She's the dragon now.

Edited May 26, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Remiel]

You guys took Remiel's question to be about the scientific inaccuracy of the scene... I assumed he was asking if we cringed because something grisly was about to happen.

I knew right away what was going to happen, and I did cringe.

Actually, I was asking about the scientific inaccuracy, . That is why I addressed the question specifically to Bonam, given his background.

[kimmy]

I gather from the name she's picked for her baby that she has every intention of carrying on Viserys' big dream, however.

After I wrote this, it occurred to me that I couldn't remember if Rhaegar had been mentioned on the show yet. In the book I've read up to about roughly the start of episode 5 of the tv show, and Rhaegar's been mentioned several times in the book. I'd been wondering if this was one of those times where being familiar with the source material filled in a gap that had been left in the adaptation. She declares that her son will be called Rhaego, and somebody who's familiar with the book says "ok, she's pretty serious about her family legacy" and somebody who isn't says "kind of a dumb name for a baby..."

Kind of like discussing "The Watchmen" movie with somebody who hadn't read the book. A number of times I found myself saying things like "well... the movie really only touched on that theme, but it's much more developed in the book." And I had to concluded that the movie wasn't as good as I thought it was and that my enjoyment of it was in some part enhanced by being familiar with the source material.

(btw, I reviewed episode 4 and Jorah Mormont did tell Dany that as far has he's concerned Rhaegar was the last dragon, and Viserys is less than the shadow of a snake. As well as one of my favorite bits of dialog, where Dany tells Jorah that she'd been told the people are sewing dragon banners and praying for Viserys to return, and Jorah replies that "The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends. They don't care what games the high lords play.")

So far, I think they've done a pretty good, and faithful, job of adapting the book to the screen. Some scenes have been condensed, and in a couple of places they've taken events that happen at different times in the book and combined them in a single scene on TV, but these are reasonable corners to cut. And there's a lot of expository in the narrative, about the history and geography and culture, that just can't be put into the TV show. A viewer misses some of the richness of the setting that the author creates. Some of it can be shown visually, and some of the key points can be fit into the dialog, but a lot of it just can't.

A few other things that I've gotten from the book that I didn't think were very well expressed on the show:

-what a powerful influence Tyrion Lannister's "inner bigness" has on Jon's outlook.

-protecting the fat kid showed Jon becoming a leader, and his empathy, but in the book the key point of that whole plotline was that Jon and the other recruits developed a true sense of brotherhood.

-on the show, Ned was pretty mad about being made to kill Sansa's pet wolf. In the book, Ned was really really really mad about it. And later on when he learns that Bran's pet wolf had foiled the assassin, Ned thinks back on killing Sansa's wolf with a sense that he made a profound mistake. The wolves in general have been very scarce the past few episodes, whereas in the book they're omnipresent whenever we're with Jon or Bran.

-the opposing family slogans: "Winter Is Coming" and "A Lannister Always Pays His Debts". The latter was prominently featured in the last episode, but the former has been scarce. I love both slogans, because they both imply a lot more than they say at face value.

When Tyrion tosses the guard his coin-purse and shouts "A Lannister always pays his debts!" I think it's more a warning to the Tully sisters than an announcement that he's made good on his promise to the guard. It implies a long memory for friends and foes alike. There might even be a Bushian "you're with us or you're against us" undertone.

"Winter is coming" isn't just the Stark slogan, it's Ned's whole world view. In the book he thinks it and says it frequently. It's a weather forecast, it's a prediction of trouble, it's a call for preparation or caution or vigilance, it's an admonishment for his children to be brave or be more mature, and it's a declaration that shit just got real.

-k

[kimmy]

AAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!

-k

[bloodyminded]

Might you expand on this point? Did something arouse your ire? The episode seemed fine to me.

[Bonam]

-the opposing family slogans: "Winter Is Coming" and "A Lannister Always Pays His Debts". The latter was prominently featured in the last episode, but the former has been scarce. I love both slogans, because they both imply a lot more than they say at face value.

"A Lannister always pays his debts" is actually just a saying. Their family words are "Hear me roar!".

[kimmy]

Might you expand on this point? Did something arouse your ire? The episode seemed fine to me.

Oh, absolutely. The most gripping episode yet, even without a single scene with Peter Dinklage.

The "AAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!" was mostly inspired by Lord Stark's blockheadedness. He's like Charlie Brown, and Cersei is like Lucy, yoinking the football away at the last moment. Ned truly has an uncanny ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. He has the Midas Touch; everything he touches turns to mufflers.

Oh well, at least he still has his happiness health family job principles head. (I don't think he'll escape with both of those. I suspect he'll have to choose one or the other.)

I thought the gratuitous lesbian sex at the start of the episode was somewhat excessive, although I imagine others might disagree and Littlefinger's monologue makes the shock ending somewhat less shocking although also makes it more believable. This is one of those situations where a book beats TV. In the book, the Catelyn-Littlefinger backstory is revealed through her recollections as she watches a sunrise. On TV, we get a Big Expository Monologue that was a little over-the-top and felt kind of bolted on.

Lord Tywin was off the charts! Lecturing his son while gutting a stag (no shortage of symbolism on the show) was just too cool. One area (in my opinion) where the TV series is better than the books is that in the books Jaime and Cersei (so far as I've read, at least) aren't well developed or even particularly interesting. They're 2-D villains with little dialogue and aren't point-of-view characters so we really don't find out much about them at all. On the TV show, the actors do such a wonderful job of bringing them to life that they seem much more real. As well, they've been given additional dialogue and scenes that don't appear in the book to flesh them out more. Jaime getting lectured and told to "man up" by his fearsome father was just a really excellent scene.

Another highlight, for me, was the scene where Ser Jorah foils the assassination attempt. I haven't got there in the book yet, so I don't know if it's answered there, but as I watched I was really dying to know what was actually written on the letter he received.

Did Varys write to him and say "You've been pardoned, come on home" or did it say "You'll receive your pardon if you kill Danaerys" or did it say "the wine merchant is attempting to poison Danaerys, you might want to do something about that"?

Jorah told Dany that all he wants is to go home again. And he's been hedging his bets... serving her and Viserys, while at the same time trying to win favor with the King by spying for Varys. But it looks as though he was forced to choose, and it looks like he's put his money on Team Targaryen. I'm interested to find out why. Did he weigh the chances of a successful assassination and getting a pardon from the king versus the chances of Dany and her horde taking the throne by force and decide that the kid was the smarter bet? Did he realize that he likes her too much to see her killed? Does he (as Viserys suggested) think she's a hot piece of ass? Or did he foil the assassination because Varys asked him to?

And why would Varys arrange for an attempt on Dany's life and also arrange for Jorah to foil it? Probably the same reason somebody arranged for such an inept attempt on Bran's life... they knew what kind of reaction it would create. I really enjoyed Drago's speech. A beefcake actor shouting gibberish in a make-believe language should by all rights be pretty silly, but that scene worked for me.

Poor King Robert. I gather this character was inspired in some part by Homer Simpson. A fat drunk oaf killed in the end by his own incompetence. It would appear that his death leaves 4 factions to fight for the throne (the Lannisters, the Renly/Tyrrell alliance, Stannis, and Dany and her horde) plus the Vale/Riverrun/Winterfell side of things who don't want the throne but are going to fight the Lannisters whether they like it or not.

One tends to expect things to end badly for pretty much everybody except the Lannisters who'll be champions right until Dany and her horde land on their shores and stomp the crap out of them and rule the kingdom for a couple of weeks until the killer snow-zombies from episode 1 overrun the Wall and wipe out the entire kingdom. The final 6 episodes of season 3 will consist mostly of just blizzards and snow-zombies wandering around eating frozen corpses.

And ... so, there's only 3 episodes left in this season.

"A Lannister always pays his debts" is actually just a saying. Their family words are "Hear me roar!".

"Hear me roar!" might be the official slogan, but it's clear what their *real* motto is.

If there were a House Kimmy, its emblem would be the fearsome

, and its slogan would be "Doesn't give a ****."

-k

[Bonam]

Oh, absolutely. The most gripping episode yet, even without a single scene with Peter Dinklage.

The "AAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!" was mostly inspired by Lord Stark's blockheadedness. He's like Charlie Brown, and Cersei is like Lucy, yoinking the football away at the last moment. Ned truly has an uncanny ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. He has the Midas Touch; everything he touches turns to mufflers.

Yes, a man like Ned is truly out of his element in a place like King's Landing. He is all about honor, justice, and loyalty, while everyone around him is all schemes, plots, and deceit.

Lord Tywin was off the charts! Lecturing his son while gutting a stag (no shortage of symbolism on the show) was just too cool.

Yep, the scene with Tywin was awesome. I think I did say earlier in the thread "wait til you meet [Jaime's] father", and I'm glad the show came through there Tywin is pretty much the main reason behind the wealth and power of House Lannister.

Another highlight, for me, was the scene where Ser Jorah foils the assassination attempt. I haven't got there in the book yet, so I don't know if it's answered there, but as I watched I was really dying to know what was actually written on the letter he received.

The letter was interesting, but I didn't find the foiled assassination scene that great. That particular scene seemed rather stereotypically taken from any number of other prior fantasy/medieval/adventure TV shows. I'm sure Xena and Hercules both had scenes just like that.

Poor King Robert. I gather this character was inspired in some part by Homer Simpson. A fat drunk oaf killed in the end by his own incompetence.

You might note, however, the conversation Ned had with the other two guys at one point in the episode about the Lannister boy who kept the king properly refreshed with wine during the hunt. To me, the conversation hinted that the wine could have been drugged.

And ... so, there's only 3 episodes left in this season.

Very sad, I wish HBO shows were more like other American TV series which tend to have 22-26 episodes per season.

And why would Varys arrange for an attempt on Dany's life and also arrange for Jorah to foil it? Probably the same reason somebody arranged for such an inept attempt on Bran's life... they knew what kind of reaction it would create. I really enjoyed Drago's speech. A beefcake actor shouting gibberish in a make-believe language should by all rights be pretty silly, but that scene worked for me.

That scene was great. I went back and re-watched it. If I was one of the horde members, I'd certainly be inspired to follow Drogo across the sea on the "wooden horses". That actor has been in a few shows I've watched though, Stargate Atlantis comes to mind.

[bloodyminded]

I thought the gratuitous lesbian sex at the start of the episode was somewhat excessive, although I imagine others might disagree

Yeah, I got to disagree. Such a thing would not be gratuitous in church.

and Littlefinger's monologue makes the shock ending somewhat less shocking although also makes it more believable. This is one of those situations where a book beats TV.

Always said, and usually true. The Godfather is an exception, not a rule.

Lord Tywin was off the charts! Lecturing his son while gutting a stag (no shortage of symbolism on the show) was just too cool. One area (in my opinion) where the TV series is better than the books is that in the books Jaime and Cersei (so far as I've read, at least) aren't well developed or even particularly interesting. They're 2-D villains with little dialogue and aren't point-of-view characters so we really don't find out much about them at all. On the TV show, the actors do such a wonderful job of bringing them to life that they seem much more real. As well, they've been given additional dialogue and scenes that don't appear in the book to flesh them out more. Jaime getting lectured and told to "man up" by his fearsome father was just a really excellent scene.

It was awesome. "Not later...now."

I really enjoyed Drago's speech. A beefcake actor shouting gibberish in a make-believe language should by all rights be pretty silly, but that scene worked for me.

It really worked for me, too. An exciting and powerful scene. Part of it was that it's the first time Drago has allowed his emotions to show (though I think he's innately a very emotional man); part of it, too, was watching Dany's facial reaction, which could be read many subtly different ways.

If there were a House Kimmy, its emblem would be the fearsome

, and its slogan would be "Doesn't give a ****."

-k

Mine would be a big, sad-eyed man with a vacant expression (that's me); my slogan would be "Don't ask me, I just work here."

Edited June 2, 2011 by bloodyminded

[kimmy]

Yes, a man like Ned is truly out of his element in a place like King's Landing. He is all about honor, justice, and loyalty, while everyone around him is all schemes, plots, and deceit.

More than that, he's also kind-hearted. His foremost concern is sparing Cersei's children from Robert's wrath. (made particularly clear in the book, where he's haunted by the memory of the slaughtered princes and princesses when the Targaryens were overthrown.) He tipped his hand to her too early, as a kindness to her, and it might have ended differently otherwise. Of course, had he known dumbass Robert would get his fat ass gored to death by a wild boar, he'd have done things a lot differently.

Yep, the scene with Tywin was awesome. I think I did say earlier in the thread "wait til you meet [Jaime's] father", and I'm glad the show came through there Tywin is pretty much the main reason behind the wealth and power of House Lannister.

You did, and I was a little giddy when I saw the Lannister flags flying over the tents because you told me meeting papa was going to be a big deal.

The letter was interesting, but I didn't find the foiled assassination scene that great. That particular scene seemed rather stereotypically taken from any number of other prior fantasy/medieval/adventure TV shows. I'm sure Xena and Hercules both had scenes just like that.

I didn't watch Xena or Hercules. Although I see a few episodes of Kevin Sorbo's other show, "Gene Roddenberry's Hercules In Space".

You might note, however, the conversation Ned had with the other two guys at one point in the episode about the Lannister boy who kept the king properly refreshed with wine during the hunt. To me, the conversation hinted that the wine could have been drugged.

Would that make Lancel Lannister the "Mini-Kingslayer"? "Kingslayer Jr"? "Kingslayer Lite"? "Li'l Kingslayer"?

Seems a bit irrelevant. Maybe he died because he was drugged, or maybe he died because he was fat and dumb and stumbling drunk. Maybe being so drunk he forgot he's a fraction of the man he used to be was all it took to kill him. Still, it was mention that Ned foiled one assassination plan just by talking him out of fighting in melee at the tournament, so clearly the knives were already out for Robert and having Lancel drug him wouldn't be surprising. However, Lancel seems like quite a dimwit; I don't think I'd trust that kid with a plan like that.

That scene was great. I went back and re-watched it. If I was one of the horde members, I'd certainly be inspired to follow Drogo across the sea on the "wooden horses". That actor has been in a few shows I've watched though, Stargate Atlantis comes to mind.

He'll also be starring as Conan the Barbarian in theatres later this summer.

Speaking of things arriving this summer, I read there's a new book in the "Song of Ice and Fire" series to be released in July.

Yeah, I got to disagree. Such a thing would not be gratuitous in church.

Still, having someone as cagey as Littlefinger explain his deepest secrets and darkest plans to a couple of prostitutes he doesn't know seems pretty unlikely. Especially when one of them quite literally just got off the turnip-truck, and super-especially when she just arrived from quite literally Ned Stark's back yard.

It was awesome. "Not later...now."

I liked how fast his attitude changed from "Attacking Stark was foolish" to "Why isn't he dead?" when he found out Tyrion had been kidnapped.

And "Are you going to say something clever? Go on! Say something clever."

It really worked for me, too. An exciting and powerful scene. Part of it was that it's the first time Drago has allowed his emotions to show (though I think he's innately a very emotional man); part of it, too, was watching Dany's facial reaction, which could be read many subtly different ways.

It's hard to know what's going on in that kid's head anymore. She was so completely unmoved by her brother's death, I'm not sure she'd mind much if Drogo really did do all the horrible stuff he promised to.

Mine would be a big, sad-eyed man with a vacant expression (that's me); my slogan would be "Don't ask me, I just work here."

-k

[Bonam]

I didn't watch Xena or Hercules. Although I see a few episodes of Kevin Sorbo's other show, "Gene Roddenberry's Hercules In Space".

Hah, Andromeda is like the one long running sci fi show that I couldn't manage to watch all the way through. It was just that bad. Xena and Hercules were both a lot of fun though. Hercules was mostly aimed at a younger audience and Xena got a little darker here and there. I'd recommend em. They are of course very simple, self-contained episodic plots, nothing like game of thrones at all, but some good mindless entertainment nonetheless. I watched all those kinds of tv series though: conan, sinbad, etc. Oh, and then there was Legend of the Seeker, based on another one of my favourite book series ever (Sword of Truth), but unlike Game of Thrones, where they've stayed very close to the books, they utterly despoiled the plot for that one to the point where it bore no resemblance at all except the names of the characters. Was still fun to watch though, mostly for the hot actresses.

Would that make Lancel Lannister the "Mini-Kingslayer"? "Kingslayer Jr"? "Kingslayer Lite"? "Li'l Kingslayer"?

A fine family tradition, it would appear.

Seems a bit irrelevant. Maybe he died because he was drugged, or maybe he died because he was fat and dumb and stumbling drunk. Maybe being so drunk he forgot he's a fraction of the man he used to be was all it took to kill him. Still, it was mention that Ned foiled one assassination plan just by talking him out of fighting in melee at the tournament, so clearly the knives were already out for Robert and having Lancel drug him wouldn't be surprising. However, Lancel seems like quite a dimwit; I don't think I'd trust that kid with a plan like that.

I don't think he'd necessarily even have had to know. He just brings the wine. The wine is probably brought from the palace in King's Landing, where people like Cersei could have had access to it.

I think you have a bit more disdain for Robert than he deserves. He led the rebellion to free the Seven Kingdoms from the madness and tyranny of King Aerys. He then ruled the Seven Kingdoms for nearly two decades, holding off the hatreds and rivalries of the great houses from tearing apart the realm. He sacrificed his own happiness and married the poisonous bitch Cersei to keep the realm together. It was no easy task. All the seven houses, Stark, Lannister, Tyrell, Martell, Tully, Greyjoy, Arryn, were kings or high lords in their own right of their lands for hundreds or even thousands of years, and keeping them all in a union that spans a continent the size of the all of Eurasia with medieval level technology is no small feat, and would give even the greatest of leaders a major headache. Given what he's had to deal with for two decades, I think Robert can be forgiven his vices.

He'll also be starring as Conan the Barbarian in theatres later this summer.

Ugh. Hopefully they don't kill off the Conan universe with this reboot.

Speaking of things arriving this summer, I read there's a new book in the "Song of Ice and Fire" series to be released in July.

Yes... Dance with Dragons. I've only been waiting for it for six years. Definitely excited for it to finally come out. I hope Martin lives to finish Song of Ice and Fire, unlike Jordan who died before finishing the Wheel of Time.

It's hard to know what's going on in that kid's head anymore. She was so completely unmoved by her brother's death, I'm not sure she'd mind much if Drogo really did do all the horrible stuff he promised to.

Dany is an interesting character in that on one hand she's managed to understand and manipulate Drogo and to some extent understand the Dothraki, but on the other hand she's still a child and has little understanding of the world at large. I don't think she fully comprehends the reality of the acts that Drogo described. Also, her conception of Westeros is based largely on the rantings of her older brother, who himself was nothing more but a whiny child.

I also found it funny how part of Drogo's vow to Dany, his "gift" to her and to their son, was a promise that he'd go rape a bunch of women I'm sure that's what every wife wants to hear haha.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Bonam

[bloodyminded]

Ugh. Hopefully they don't kill off the Conan universe with this reboot.

It is unlikely to be worse than the Shwarzennegar vehicle. What's left to kill?

[kimmy]

Hah, Andromeda is like the one long running sci fi show that I couldn't manage to watch all the way through. It was just that bad. Xena and Hercules were both a lot of fun though. Hercules was mostly aimed at a younger audience and Xena got a little darker here and there. I'd recommend em. They are of course very simple, self-contained episodic plots, nothing like game of thrones at all, but some good mindless entertainment nonetheless. I watched all those kinds of tv series though: conan, sinbad, etc.

I saw just a little bit of the Hercules and Xena shows, and they just didn't do anything for me. They struck me as being comedy shows.

I remember August's "review" of Inception where he complained that Leonardo was "too earnest" and should have played the part with a wink to let the viewer know that he knew he was talking to CGI creatures.

In Hercules and Xena, they don't just wink at the viewer, they point at the man behind the curtain, they make fun of the styrofoam rocks the props department found for them, they treat the whole exercise as a bit of a farce. And that's fine, I suppose, but just wasn't interesting for me.

Oh, and then there was Legend of the Seeker, based on another one of my favourite book series ever (Sword of Truth), but unlike Game of Thrones, where they've stayed very close to the books, they utterly despoiled the plot for that one to the point where it bore no resemblance at all except the names of the characters. Was still fun to watch though, mostly for the hot actresses.

I saw some of that. I started to get the impression that they had "jumped the shark" when the main villains became a bunch of hot hookers running around in bright red fetish gear. Then later, in addition to the hookers in bright red fetish gear, they had a second group of villains who were hot hookers running around in bright red lingerie.

I wonder why it never occurred to either of these factions that "you know, skinny chicks in sexy outfits aren't the most effective fighting force. We could hire some men in armor..."

I think you have a bit more disdain for Robert than he deserves. He led the rebellion to free the Seven Kingdoms from the madness and tyranny of King Aerys. He then ruled the Seven Kingdoms for nearly two decades, holding off the hatreds and rivalries of the great houses from tearing apart the realm. He sacrificed his own happiness and married the poisonous bitch Cersei to keep the realm together. It was no easy task. All the seven houses, Stark, Lannister, Tyrell, Martell, Tully, Greyjoy, Arryn, were kings or high lords in their own right of their lands for hundreds or even thousands of years, and keeping them all in a union that spans a continent the size of the all of Eurasia with medieval level technology is no small feat, and would give even the greatest of leaders a major headache. Given what he's had to deal with for two decades, I think Robert can be forgiven his vices.

I gather that the trigger for Robert's Rebellion was not the crimes of the Mad King, but rather Prince Rhaegar running off with Robert's beloved Lyanna. (was she abducted? did they elope together? that isn't exactly clear at this point.)

He bankrupted the kingdom to pay for reckless spending and has all but sold the kingdom to Tywin to pay for it. When crisis breaks out, he goes hunting. All he does anymore is get drunk and parade prostitutes through the castle. And reminisce about past glory. I said he was modeled after Homer Simpson, but maybe he's closer to Al Bundy. Sitting around depressed about his miserable wife and useless children, the only bright spots in his day are lusting after women he's not married to and reminiscing about scoring 4 touchdowns in the highschool championship game battles he won as a young man.

Sure, it's a tough job, but he did a lousy job of it.

It is unlikely to be worse than the Shwarzennegar vehicle. What's left to kill?

I only saw the first of those films and some time ago, but I recall that it was (while not "good") at least entertaining.

The first Clash of the Titans movie and the recent remake were also both "not good", but the former had a campy charm and at least tried to inhabit the world of the Greek myths. The latter had some giant scorpion-monsters running around, and I honestly can't remember much else about it. It could have just as easily been the next entry in The Mummy series of films.

I don't know anything about "the Conan universe", but if it's a unique place, they ought to show me the viewer what makes it special. That might give it a chance of being a franchise that people will want to stick with instead of a generic Strong Guy With Sword movie.

-k

[kimmy]

This week's episode was pretty tame compared to the last one...

Syrio fighting off the guardsmen with his wooden practice sword to let Arya escape was splendid. I've enjoyed him; I assume he's dead now.

Tyrion becoming, apparently, a general is a pretty funny development. Jaime leads 30,000 Lannister soldiers to glory in the Riverlands... and Tyrion, apparently, will be leading 3000 clueless hillbillies with furs and pitchforks into battle against an imbecile child and his insane mother. Tyrion himself would think that was hilarious, I think.

I suppose Robb rallying the north to war should have been rousing and inspiring, but the way things go on this show, you can't be roused or inspired because you already know it'll end badly. They'll get to Lord Frey's bridge, and he'll pretend to honor their allegiance, and they'll discover too late that he's been bought by the Lannisters. Robb's army will be routed back to the north, Riverrun will fall to Jaime, and Lord Frey will be installed as the new Lord of the Riverlands. I don't know it, but it just seems inevitable, y'know? It seems telegraphed.

After I watched the 7th Harry Potter film, I found myself thinking: there's only 1 episode left, and it doesn't seem like nearly enough time for the bad-guys to get the payback they deserve. They could spend the last half hour of the series blasting Bellatrix in the face with a baseball bat, and it still wouldn't seem like enough to pay her back for all the murder and suffering she's committed in the prior several films. To say nothing of the guy with no nose.

Game of Thrones is starting to seem like that... it seems like there's increasingly small chance of "the bad guys" receiving any payback that would fit the injustices they've inflicted.

-k

[Bonam]

If you're looking for justice and happy endings, game of thrones is definitely the wrong universe to try to find those things in It's grim, gritty, and much of the time, pretty hopeless, and that's one of its distinguishing features from most other works of fantasy.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Bonam

[bloodyminded]

I only saw the first of those films and some time ago, but I recall that it was (while not "good") at least entertaining.

Yeah...I caught part of it again recently, and let's just say it's aged badly. Arnie's acting is so poor that even his constant grunts of pain or exertion sound forced and ridiculous. He was made to be the Terminator...but nothing else.

The first Clash of the Titans movie and the recent remake were also both "not good", but the former had a campy charm and at least tried to inhabit the world of the Greek myths. The latter had some giant scorpion-monsters running around, and I honestly can't remember much else about it. It could have just as easily been the next entry in The Mummy series of films.

Agreed on both counts.

I don't know anything about "the Conan universe", but if it's a unique place, they ought to show me the viewer what makes it special. That might give it a chance of being a franchise that people will want to stick with instead of a generic Strong Guy With Sword movie.

All I really remember form my boyhood reading of several of Robert E. Howard's Conan books was that they were incredibly bloody: lots of brains and entrails and bodies hewn in half. I loved them.

Just now, I checked out the wiki entry, and it credits Howard for the actual creation of the "sword and sorcery" genre, laying the ground for Tolkien, et al...and, presumably, for Game of Thrones as well.

Edited June 9, 2011 by bloodyminded