Wilber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 What I'm saying, intending to say, is that unless the same principles are applied to all, we can't say it's "wrong" to do a particular thing. How can it be "wrong" to upset just one group of people because they violently over react? We should only consider the feelings of those who react by breaking the law and killing people? We should only give that consideration to one group of people? We had thousands of Americans murdered on 9-11, yet when one American killed one Muslim in response, the reaction was 'it's not safe for Muslims on the streets of America.' Now one American burns a book and he's responsible for the killing done by others. It's the double standard that I find so unacceptable. That's really been my point all along and what my responses have been in regards to. I do think there are times when people should take moral responsibility for their words and actions, specifically when their words and actions are directed at individual people, and are deliberately hurtful, such as bullying. I don't think this incident falls into the same category at all, especially since the people killed had nothing to do with anything. It's a case of "A" does something "B" doesn't like so "B" kills "C" and "A" must bear responsibility for it; "A" is definitely getting more criticism than "B", more negative press, and I find that bizarre. I also find it at odds that people who criticize others for saying Islam isn't a religion of peace are saying that people should know that if they burn a Koran there will be rioting and killing as a result. The behavior of others does not justify any response by you. It goes both ways. If A knows C may be killed by B because of something A does, A is at least morally culpable if not legally responsible. In effect you are saying you have no personal responsibility for anything you don't physically do. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 The behavior of others does not justify any response by you. It goes both ways. If A knows C may be killed by B because of something A does, A is at least morally culpable if not legally responsible. Well, we already know A is not legally responsible. As for morally culpable, your logic means that Canada is culpable for nuclear weapons, atomic bomb attacks on Japan, and radioactive leaks into the ocean from the Fukushima power plants! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Well, we already know A is not legally responsible. As for morally culpable, your logic means that Canada is culpable for nuclear weapons, atomic bomb attacks on Japan, and radioactive leaks into the ocean from the Fukushima power plants! Cool, Canada can cause 9.1 quakes and 10 meter tsunamis. We're #1. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) Cool, Canada can cause 9.1 quakes and 10 meter tsunamis. We're #1. But Canada (and others) provided the raw materials that made the radiological leaks and nuclear weapons possible, knowing full well the possible outcomes. This is the extreme you are proposing for the pastor in Florida. Edited April 5, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 But Canada (and others) provided the raw materials that made the radiological leaks and nuclear weapons possible, knowing full well the possible outcomes. This is the extreme you are proposing for the pastor in Florida. Supplying raw materials that might be used for evil an purpose is not the same as this bit of raw AMERICAN material in the form of the Floridian pastor. Our raw materal does not talk or shoot it's mouth off mindlessly. The pastor is and should become a symbol of American stupidity and celebrated as such. It's a case of brain power. It might be a good idea if you sent your inferiour and reckless brains to Canada and we could partake in a reverse brain drain of biblical proportions...Don't know what I just said but if felt reckless...It is possible that recklessness is not a trait held only by the American system. The idea that we are so in love with America yet hate it is a lot like making love to the woman who ruined your life. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Supplying raw materials that might be used for evil an purpose is not the same as this bit of raw AMERICAN material in the form of the Floridian pastor. There is no "might be used" about it....Canada knows damn right well what the raw materials are used for. The idea that we are so in love with America yet hate it is a lot like making love to the woman who ruined your life. Yet you continue to do it. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 There is no "might be used" about it....Canada knows damn right well what the raw materials are used for. Yet you continue to do it. Nawh the other day she said "I can't trust you and want nothing to do with you" - well she was calling the kettle black of course. This former wife and lover - could never be trusted from the get go...I was honest and open with her till I discovered she was and always will be a pathetic liar...so what I did was simply stop telling the truth and gave lie for lie...The relatiohship that Canada has with America is much the same.. We constantly lie to each other. As they say a dog returns to it's vomit - not learning any useful lesson...If the dog is young enough it might learn - OUR relationship is like that of an old couple...we have been in bed so long together that we have aged and no one else wants us - Now kiss you jerk! Have I told you lately that I love you? The only reason I visit my X is to use her meger resourses...It's much like dealing with America...I love you but I love your resourses more - and vise versa. Quote
Wilber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) But Canada (and others) provided the raw materials that made the radiological leaks and nuclear weapons possible, knowing full well the possible outcomes. This is the extreme you are proposing for the pastor in Florida. Let's see, Muslims paid the pastor to burn the Koran and Canada shoved nuclear materials down Japan's throat in spite of their protests. How can I argue with logic like that? You win. Edited April 5, 2011 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Oleg Bach Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Let's see, Muslims paid the pastor to burn the Koran and Canada shoved nuclear materials down Japan's throat in spite of their protests. How can I argue with logic like that? You win. Some of my brain rot has infected BC...This could be a bloodless take over of our big brother - first BC - next that other guy with the big ears. Quote
Shwa Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) Typical...ours is much nicer! You lost more. Your morals are irrelevant, even when you think they matter. More Qu'rans will be burned, and now the pastor wants to put the Prophet Muhammad on trial. That should be even more blasphemous fun! No morals are never irrelevant, especially when you are going overseas as a friend to defend democracy and all that jazz. The point being we must be seen as offering the higher road despite how some of those cultural aspects inevitably crash. It is much easier to trade and enact commerce in peace than it is with people shooting at you. Uh-oh...more sexual insecurity...I think we have another winner. Oh come on, you got "sexual insecurity" out of a joke that you requested. LOFL! Edited April 5, 2011 by Shwa Quote
Oleg Bach Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Could it be that the American State department condones the burning of the Koran because the terrorism and security buisness is taking a loss..Maybe the terror game is petering out and this industry needs a boost? I really can't see any other reson for allowing this stupid stooge Pastor all this free advertising time. Heaven forbid if the Muslim radical calm down..that could mean the collapse of a very lucrative infrastructure that created itself out of fear after 9 11 . Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Let's see, Muslims paid the pastor to burn the Koran and Canada shoved nuclear materials down Japan's throat in spite of their protests. How can I argue with logic like that? You win. The pastor paid for the Qu'ran with the expressed intention of burning it. Isn't commerce great! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 No morals are never irrelevant, especially when you are going overseas as a friend to defend democracy and all that jazz. The point being we must be seen as offering the higher road despite how some of those cultural aspects inevitably crash. It is much easier to trade and enact commerce in peace than it is with people shooting at you. LOL! Obviously you have never been to California or New Jersey. Keep your "morals" in Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 The pastor paid for the Qu'ran with the expressed intention of burning it. Isn't commerce great! You sure about that BC? Maybe he stole it - maybe he found it in the garbage? Maybe he did pay for it? I would have to see some sort of reciept before I could pass judgement on whether any commerce took place here or not. One must be accurate before running off to do battle..........wait - there are a million tons of Mustard gas in Lybia - LETS GO BOYS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>get dad dic tadder. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 You sure about that BC? Maybe he stole it - maybe he found it in the garbage? Maybe he did pay for it? I would have to see some sort of reciept before I could pass judgement on whether any commerce took place here or not.... Clearly is was produced and paid for in some manner. Why print Qu'rans if there is the possibility that some crazy guy in Saskatoon may burn it...yet another person to blame for the mob murders in Afghanistan. I wonder where the paper came from? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 The pastor paid for the Qu'ran with the expressed intention of burning it. Isn't commerce great! I guess you must be good with anyone burning an American flag as long as they paid for it. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 I guess you must be good with anyone burning an American flag as long as they paid for it. Absolutely....I served to protect their right to do just that. By George, I think you've finally got it...Bravo! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Absolutely....I served to protect their right to do just that. By George, I think you've finally got it...Bravo! That's not the same as being good with it. I understand your sticking up for a right but not your approval of an act. I think Ernst Zundel had the right to say what he did but have serious doubts about his appologists. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 That's not the same as being good with it. I understand your sticking up for a right but not your approval of an act. I think Ernst Zundel had the right to say what he did but have serious doubts about his appologists. I don't...Zundel gets to say all that and more in the United States. Florida is a state...not a province in Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Why does America believe that through freedom of speech you should be able to spit in a persons face with that speech and not expect to get punched in the face? It doesn't. The First Amendment protects speech, not conduct. Sometimes the line is blurry between speech and conduct, but not here. But query, punching someone back is probably always illegal, unless in self-defense. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Wilber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 I don't...Zundel gets to say all that and more in the United States. Florida is a state...not a province in Canada. Then why does it matter if he paid for the book? The premis of this thread is not whether he had the right but whether he bears any responsibility. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
jbg Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Then why does it matter if he paid for the book? The premis of this thread is not whether he had the right but whether he bears any responsibility. What right do a bunch of hotheads murderers in Kandahar have to retaliate when some nutbar burns his own property? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Wilber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 What right do a bunch of hotheads murderers in Kandahar have to retaliate when some nutbar burns his own property? Clearly they don't but we have covered that. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Then why does it matter if he paid for the book? The premis of this thread is not whether he had the right but whether he bears any responsibility. Responsible for burning his own book? Sure, but why would that cause rational people anywhere to kill somebody? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Posted April 5, 2011 Clearly they don't but we have covered that. We have? Somebody here claims that the pastor is responsible / culpable...now who would say such a silly thing? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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