Michael Hardner Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 Elections are very exciting, and comprise a real "story" with beginning (election is called), middle (campaigning) and climactic ending (the vote). They're the most interesting thing to the population as a whole, even though fewer and fewer participate in them. But therein lies the problem - the elections are so exciting that elections are now used to satisfy one of society's primary needs: entertainment. So the election is about... the election. Here, on MLW for example, on the day the election was called - I count 8 threads about the election going on: 2 threads about the polls 1 thread about Liberal strategy 3 threads about coalition governments and the strategy of making one, or campaigning against one 1 thread about rejecting your ballot 1 thread Election about whether the itself is a bad idea No threads about the ideas put forward, and the vision that each party offers. Part of the reason for this I chalk up to the success of our system: we seem to have settled on the right way to run a country and so the parties all seem so similar, and campaign over the same tired ground. It's no wonder that some are disillusioned. The solution is for us to demand new ideas from government. John A. McDonald, Trudeau, Mulroney -all of these PMs presented strong ideas as to how we could move forward. The politics of today needs to move beyond branding, marketing and petty strategies. We need to ask for something more from them. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
ToadBrother Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) The solution is for us to demand new ideas from government. John A. McDonald, Trudeau, Mulroney -all of these PMs presented strong ideas as to how we could move forward. The politics of today needs to move beyond branding, marketing and petty strategies. We need to ask for something more from them. No matter what the Tories say about the economy, the fact is that as long as the minority situation is in play, the obsession of the parties will be on the mechanics of Parliament. You won't get any bold new ideas from the mainstream parties, just a lot of obsessive compulsive talk about coalitions and ethics. Edited March 26, 2011 by ToadBrother Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Posted March 26, 2011 No matter what the Tories say about the economy, the fact is that as long as the minority situation is in play, the obsession of the parties will be on the mechanics of Parliament. You won't get any bold new ideas from the mainstream parties, just a lot of obsessive compulsive talk about coalitions and ethics. I suppose that explains it somewhat, but I don't think this is a new phenomenon. The last big idea from the parties was the Libeal Red Book, which was just an election ploy as it turned out. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Keepitsimple Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) We need jets and jails. The one thing that Kim Campbell offered to Canadian politics was her famous line "An election is no time to talk about issues". Edited March 26, 2011 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
Harry Hayfield Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 That does rather suggest therefore that I might be in the minority. I like elections (especially those that have a base in the majority voting system) such as the UK (which by the way will be holding a mega set of elections 72 hours later, the results of which could set in chain a series of events that lead to our own general election in October of this year). Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Posted March 26, 2011 That does rather suggest therefore that I might be in the minority. I like elections (especially those that have a base in the majority voting system) such as the UK (which by the way will be holding a mega set of elections 72 hours later, the results of which could set in chain a series of events that lead to our own general election in October of this year). No doubt about it elections are fun... there are gaffes, things to be learned, and resignations of politicians we're sick of hearing from... How could a UK election give US an election though ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Harry Hayfield Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 No doubt about it elections are fun... there are gaffes, things to be learned, and resignations of politicians we're sick of hearing from... How could a UK election give US an election though ? I was writing from the context of the United Kingdom where three days after Canada votes, the UK votes in a series of provincal, council and national elections. The national election is a referendum on the Alternative Vote electoral system, which if it falls is likely to lead to a UK general election in October 2011 Quote
capricorn Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 No threads about the ideas put forward, and the vision that each party offers. There have been threads started on specific topics and discussions from the perspective of each party. I'm thinking the F-35s, jails, corporate tax cuts. In the election threads issues are also being addressed and in the case of coalitions, a dissection. Granted, the topics are not as neatly grouped as they should be. Part of the reason for this I chalk up to the success of our system: we seem to have settled on the right way to run a country and so the parties all seem so similar, and campaign over the same tired ground. What's fascinating is how an election campaign can turn on a dime. Like we're sitting on the edge of our seats waiting for it to happen. There's also an element about elections that turns around the personality of the leaders; is there too much of this? I'm not sure. But it consumes a lot of our attention. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
M.Dancer Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 But therein lies the problem - the elections are so exciting that elections are now used to satisfy one of society's primary needs: entertainment. So the election is about... the election. That is not a problem, that is a feature with a benefit. Elections could be so boring no follows at all... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
ToadBrother Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 I was writing from the context of the United Kingdom where three days after Canada votes, the UK votes in a series of provincal, council and national elections. The national election is a referendum on the Alternative Vote electoral system, which if it falls is likely to lead to a UK general election in October 2011 The Tories and LibDems agreed as part of their coalition pact that the two parties would be permitted to campaign for (LibDems) and against (Tories) AV. It's not a confidence motion because the referendum legislation will bind Parliament. The only way the coalition would fall is if that legislation was defeated. Quote
RNG Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 I think the reason that no real "vision" type leadership has been seen for a long time is fear. Fear of losing the next election. There are reasons to be against it but I still think politicians should be limited to one term. That way they would be more willing to do things that are unpopular with the less knowledgable masses but good for the country in the long run. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
Jack Weber Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 I looked this really quick and I thought it said "The problem with electrons." Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Wild Bill Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 I looked this really quick and I thought it said "The problem with electrons." I wrote the book on that one, Jack! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Saipan Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 The solution is for us to demand new ideas from government. John A. McDonald, Trudeau, Mulroney -all of these PMs presented strong ideas as to how we could move forward. The politics of today needs to move beyond branding, marketing and petty strategies. We need to ask for something more from them. Yes. That's about the size of it. Quote
jbg Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 No matter what the Tories say about the economy, the fact is that as long as the minority situation is in play, the obsession of the parties will be on the mechanics of Parliament. You won't get any bold new ideas from the mainstream parties, just a lot of obsessive compulsive talk about coalitions and ethics. Until Quebec either is drummed out of the Federation or returns to voting for national parties, cobbling together a majority is going to be very hard. I just hope no party 'crosses the Rubicon' and relies on the Bloc, explicitly or implicitly, to avoid an election for every vote of confidence. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
charter.rights Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Elections are boring. The threads are started by the same 4 or 5 posters here trying to drive home partisan points. The biggest decision most Canadians will have to make in this election, is whether or not to get off the couch, go to the local polling station and cast a spoiled ballot. They are all a bunch of self-serving hacks not worth the interest of the average Canadian. Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
GWiz Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 But therein lies the problem - the elections are so exciting that elections are now used to satisfy one of society's primary needs: entertainment. So the election is about... the election. I'm afraid the problem is as simple as these four words - "it's the media stupid"... On Friday a Historic Event took place... Something never before seen in the History of Parliamentary Democracy, not just in Canada, but in the world, a Government was toppled by three opposition parties because it was found in CONTEMPT of PARLIAMENT... Since Parliament is our, Canadians' voice in our Government system, the Harper Regime was found to be in contempt of Canadians, all Canadians, you and me, Joe and Jill ordinary Canadian, regardless of party... BUT was that what the media portrayed as THE top news story of the day? Nope, it got barely a passing mention... Why, because it was much more "interesting" to go after Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff and ask an unanswerable red herring of a question put forward by none other than Stephan Harper himself... Instead of talking about the Harper Regime's unprecedented waste, scandals and corruption which precipitated the current election the media "ran" with Harper's planned "topic" about a non-existant coalition... In Harper's own words - - We'll support the government on issues if it's essential to the country but our primary responsibility is not to prop up the government, our responsibility is to provide an opposition and an alternative government for Parliament and for Canadians. - Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Wild Bill Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 I'm afraid the problem is as simple as these four words - "it's the media stupid"... BUT was that what the media portrayed as THE top news story of the day? Nope, it got barely a passing mention... Why, because it was much more "interesting" to go after Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff and ask an unanswerable red herring of a question put forward by none other than Stephan Harper himself... Instead of talking about the Harper Regime's unprecedented waste, scandals and corruption which precipitated the current election the media "ran" with Harper's planned "topic" about a non-existant coalition... In the words of the immortal Gomer Pyle: "Surprise, surprise, surprise!" What else is new? The media goes with what they think will be more interesting (if not outright lurid) to their viewers and listeners. They couldn't care less about the details, or even the Truth! They sell papers, Gwiz! What did you expect? And Ignatieff should damn well have been ready for the coalition question! I watched that scrum and couldn't believe he would be so naive! He's a politician, for Pete's Sake! He should have known better! As a Reformer, I saw the media for years slant nearly everything about Manning and the Party. We used to joke that if Manning discovered a cure for cancer then the CBC would report it as Manning was attacking jobs for doctors and medical workers. It wasn't true and it wasn't fair but so what? It was the way it was. A politician has to deal with it. Welcome to the real world! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
GWiz Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 In the words of the immortal Gomer Pyle: "Surprise, surprise, surprise!" What else is new? The media goes with what they think will be more interesting (if not outright lurid) to their viewers and listeners. They couldn't care less about the details, or even the Truth! Always nice to agree with you Bill... You're absolutely right... I'm not one bit surprised... Just as long as no one gives me the media is "left" argument when they are obviously VERY "right" slanted (media=corporations=Harper Corporate Tax Cuts) I have no problem at all with what you state my friend... When I say "it's the media stupid" it clearly makes the case that in Canada, just as it is in the States, the media has a significant influence on our election outcomes... That's very sad in IMHO... Perhaps even a defining factor in The Problem with Elections, which is the heading of this thread... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
eyeball Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Always nice to agree with you Bill... You're absolutely right... I'm not one bit surprised... Just as long as no one gives me the media is "left" argument when they are obviously VERY "right" slanted (media=corporations=Harper Corporate Tax Cuts) I have no problem at all with what you state my friend... When I say "it's the media stupid" it clearly makes the case that in Canada, just as it is in the States, the media has a significant influence on our election outcomes... That's very sad in IMHO... Perhaps even a defining factor in The Problem with Elections, which is the heading of this thread... Would it be just as accurate to say it's the stupid media? I have to say nothing makes me feel like throwing my remote through the TV screen faster than the spectacle of some lame-assed reporter who lets a politician deflect their question and segue into whatever it was they wanted to be asked. Edited March 27, 2011 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
GWiz Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Would it be just as accurate to say it's the stupid media? I have to say nothing makes me feel like throwing my remote through the TV screen faster than the spectacle of some lame-assed reporter who lets a politician deflect their question and segue into whatever it was they wanted to be asked. I agree with "stupid media" whole heartedly... But there is more to it... Have you ever watched question period? Have you EVER seen the "Government of the day", in particular the Harperites (which resulted in the Contempt of Parliament finding and their downfall), give a straight answer to an opposition question? I haven't! I rest my case... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
RNG Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Just as long as no one gives me the media is "left" argument when they are obviously VERY "right" slanted (media=corporations=Harper Corporate Tax Cuts) I have no problem at all with what you state my friend... I refute you thus - CBC. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
Keepitsimple Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Just as long as no one gives me the media is "left" argument when they are obviously VERY "right" slanted (media=corporations=Harper Corporate Tax Cuts) I have no problem at all with what you state my friend... Why are tax cuts very "Right"? The Ontario Liberal Party is touting their program of tax cuts to provide economic growth. Are you saying that Dalton McGuinty's government is Right Wing? That's a laugh and a half. Quote Back to Basics
GWiz Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 I refute you thus - CBC. Did you mean CONFIRM instead of refute? - In accordance with the Broadcasting Act, the Board of Directors is responsible for the management of the Corporation. The Board is made up of 12 members, including the Chair and the President and CEO, who are appointed by the Government. - Thanks... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GWiz Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Why are tax cuts very "Right"? The Ontario Liberal Party is touting their program of tax cuts to provide economic growth. Are you saying that Dalton McGuinty's government is Right Wing? That's a laugh and a half. Nope, all I'm saying is that "the media" in general know which side their bread is buttered on... Ergo their willingness to mostly ignore certain things, like the Historic event of a Government being found in Contempt of Parliament (aka Contempt of Canadians), in favour of other things "put out there" by a specific party like the red herring of a non-existant coalition, which directly SHOWS very clearly the "medias'" general leanings and direction... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
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