Jonsa Posted March 21, 2011 Report Posted March 21, 2011 Ya just gotta love FAUX News for their consistency. In this case its their consistency in criticisizing Obama no matter what. For the past few weeks all the talking heads on Fox were lambasting the "administration" for not doing enough about libya. For not establishing a no fly zone at the very least. To stop talking and start taking action because innocent civilians were being killed. to take steps to depose Mommar. Now, its all about criticizing "Obama's War". Yep, that's what they are calling the current operation. Apparently he acted without authorization and has committed an act of war because to establish a no fly zone you gotta take out the air defenses - who'da thunk? Irony is dead in America. Quote
GWiz Posted March 21, 2011 Report Posted March 21, 2011 Ya just gotta love FAUX News for their consistency. In this case its their consistency in criticisizing Obama no matter what. For the past few weeks all the talking heads on Fox were lambasting the "administration" for not doing enough about libya. For not establishing a no fly zone at the very least. To stop talking and start taking action because innocent civilians were being killed. to take steps to depose Mommar. Now, its all about criticizing "Obama's War". Yep, that's what they are calling the current operation. Apparently he acted without authorization and has committed an act of war because to establish a no fly zone you gotta take out the air defenses - who'da thunk? Irony is dead in America. Damned if you do, damned if you don't: - The Bush Legacy via Faux News... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
wyly Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Ya just gotta love FAUX News for their consistency. In this case its their consistency in criticisizing Obama no matter what. For the past few weeks all the talking heads on Fox were lambasting the "administration" for not doing enough about libya. For not establishing a no fly zone at the very least. To stop talking and start taking action because innocent civilians were being killed. to take steps to depose Mommar. Now, its all about criticizing "Obama's War". Yep, that's what they are calling the current operation. Apparently he acted without authorization and has committed an act of war because to establish a no fly zone you gotta take out the air defenses - who'da thunk? Irony is dead in America. and now for the very first time I've supported an american decision to take military action...because they did it correctly by seeking consensus through the UN...it's a legal action done for all the right reasons...and now I see all the talking heads on every news network nit picking wording of every idiot that has an opinion, searching for every miniscule criticism from under every rock to fill their news programs in between bomb runs.... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Michael Hardner Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 and now for the very first time I've supported an american decision to take military action...because they did it correctly by seeking consensus through the UN...it's a legal action done for all the right reasons... Did you support the first Gulf War too ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Say what you like about Ron Paul, he is principled: Texas Congressman Ron Paul has joined the growing chorus of voices opposing President Barack Obama's decision to go to war in Libya without Congressional approval.Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution clearly states that Congress shall have the power "To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water." In a video shot on Friday, Ron Paul calls President Obama's decision to impose a no-fly zone over Libya "an act of war." Gather.com Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
wyly Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Did you support the first Gulf War too ? yes and no...Saddam was a bad guy yes he needed to be restricted, but there were many lies told to gain consensus...and the war was never about saving poor Kuwaiti's it was always about securing oil, it only became about saving Kuwait to convince the public as an excuse to go to war... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
M.Dancer Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 yes and no...Saddam was a bad guy yes he needed to be restricted, but there were many lies told to gain consensus...and the war was never about saving poor Kuwaiti's it was always about securing oil, it only became about saving Kuwait to convince the public as an excuse to go to war... Saving Kuwait and saving Kuwaits oil are one in the same. Having a nation, a hegomon who could shut down the Persian gulf, threaten the gulf states, invade a gulf state was a non starter. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Michael Hardner Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 yes and no...Saddam was a bad guy yes he needed to be restricted, but there were many lies told to gain consensus...and the war was never about saving poor Kuwaiti's it was always about securing oil, it only became about saving Kuwait to convince the public as an excuse to go to war... The thing is, we on MLW know about the "stated reasons" for things, that is the PR reasons. So the tiresome discussions are about debating the lies that both sides pass around in the mainstream media. The interesting discussions are about what is really happening. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
bloodyminded Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 The thing is, we on MLW know about the "stated reasons" for things, that is the PR reasons. So the tiresome discussions are about debating the lies that both sides pass around in the mainstream media. The interesting discussions are about what is really happening. But in these discussions, the PR reasons, often coupled with cherished myths, are not infrequently given as reasons for what is really happening. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Shady Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Did you support the first Gulf War too ? I'm wondering about Kosovo as well. Quote
Shady Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Did you support the first Gulf War too ? Come to think of it, even Afghanistan shortly after 911. Quote
dre Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Saving Kuwait and saving Kuwaits oil are one in the same. Having a nation, a hegomon who could shut down the Persian gulf, threaten the gulf states, invade a gulf state was a non starter. Actually that wasnt really the concern. Initial the Bush Senior administration didnt care much if Saddam invaded Kuwait. The last official communication from James Baker to Saddam Hussein said "We have no position or interest in arab on arab conflicts". They basically green-lighted Saddams Invasion. The problem is that folks in Congress flipped out about it, and the Administration was forced to reverse course. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Shady Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Actually that wasnt really the concern. Initial the Bush Senior administration didnt care much if Saddam invaded Kuwait. The last official communication from James Baker to Saddam Hussein said "We have no position or interest in arab on arab conflicts". They basically green-lighted Saddams Invasion. The problem is that folks in Congress flipped out about it, and the Administration was forced to reverse course. Complete nonsense. Quote
bloodyminded Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) Initial the Bush Senior administration didnt care much if Saddam invaded Kuwait. The last official communication from James Baker to Saddam Hussein said "We have no position or interest in arab on arab conflicts". They basically green-lighted Saddams Invasion. Saddam was stupid. "No position" contains insufficient promise. You'd think Al Capone (street gangster) would better understand such issues when dealing with Enoch Thompson (political boss/gangster). Back in '75, General Suharto understood this. He didn't invade East Timor after Ford "basically" green-lighted the invasion; he received an explicit green-lighting. Much smarter. He ultimately got to retire peacefully, wealthy from theft. Edited March 22, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Michael Hardner Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 But in these discussions, the PR reasons, often coupled with cherished myths, are not infrequently given as reasons for what is really happening. Sure... but everyone believes *some myth or other. We can usually get beyond those myths here, even if it takes awhile. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Complete nonsense. You aren't aware of the US govt. giving some approval for it ? If it happened would that change your mind about... anything ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Initial the Bush Senior administration didnt care much if Saddam invaded Kuwait. The last official communication from James Baker to Saddam Hussein said "We have no position or interest in arab on arab conflicts". They basically green-lighted Saddams Invasion. The infamous April Glaspie excuse....I join April in expressing no interest in Quebec on Ontario conflicts....invade if you please! April was born in Canada, BTW. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
M.Dancer Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 You aren't aware of the US govt. giving some approval for it ? If it happened would that change your mind about... anything ? It's murky evidence at best...it's one thing to say you are not getting involved in diplomatic wranglings (and wise if you are courting both parties) quite another to say they knew of his invasion plans....especially given the shock and response. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
bloodyminded Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 "Shock"? I dunno. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Michael Hardner Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 It's murky evidence at best...it's one thing to say you are not getting involved in diplomatic wranglings (and wise if you are courting both parties) quite another to say they knew of his invasion plans....especially given the shock and response. My understanding of it was that there was a miscommunication in the scale of the invasion. aha... here it is.... On July 25, 1990, the U.S. Ambassador in Iraq, April Glaspie, asked the Iraqi high command to explain the military preparations in progress, including the massing of Iraqi troops near the border.The American ambassador declared to her Iraqi interlocutor that Washington, “inspired by the friendship and not by confrontation, does not have an opinion” on the disagreement between Kuwait and Iraq, stating "we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts." She also let Saddam Hussein know that the U.S. did not intend "to start an economic war against Iraq". These statements may have caused Saddam to believe he had received a diplomatic green light from the United States to invade Kuwait.[20][21] According to Prof. Richard E. Rubenstein, Glaspie was later asked by British journalists why she had said that, her response was "we didn't think he would go that far" meaning take the whole country. Although no follow-up question was asked, one might assume that what the US government thought was that Saddam Hussein would take only the oil field.[22] Wikipedia Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 April was born in Canada, BTW. "Blame Canada", yet again... Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
GWiz Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Actually that wasnt really the concern. Initial the Bush Senior administration didnt care much if Saddam invaded Kuwait. The last official communication from James Baker to Saddam Hussein said "We have no position or interest in arab on arab conflicts". They basically green-lighted Saddams Invasion. The problem is that folks in Congress flipped out about it, and the Administration was forced to reverse course. Exactly right... It's also a big reason of why Bush Sr. was a one term President when he didn't finish the job by taking out SH and "freeing" Iraq post Gulf War I... Kinda like Libya today if the current "coalition" doesn't manage to eliminate Ghaddafi, his sons, and whole regime, before leaving the conflict... Kinda a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for the un-United States one could rightly say... I think the propaganda arm of the Republicants and tea partiers known as Fox News are having a very hard TIME knowing how to play this one... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 "Blame Canada", yet again... He he ... is it not true? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 Kinda like Libya today if the current "coalition" doesn't manage to eliminate Ghaddafi, his sons, and whole regime, before leaving the conflict... Unfortunately, the United States has strict orders to make sure no harm comes to Paul Martin and his Liberal Party cronies, as they may still be inside one of Ghaddafi's tents! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
wyly Posted March 22, 2011 Report Posted March 22, 2011 I think the propaganda arm of the Republicants and tea partiers known as Fox News are having a very hard TIME knowing how to play this one... speaking of Faux news, one can't help but laugh as they're caught in a blatant lie by CNN news...propaganda as ridiculous as what ghadaffi is putting out... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.