William Ashley Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12779232 So the US killed another 40 civilians. Who needs suicide bombs when you can get robots to perform the acts of terrorism for you. Quote I was here.
scouterjim Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 "Collateral damage", don't ya know? Quote I have captured the rare duct taped platypus.
Shady Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Is there such a thing as a legitimate terrorist state? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Datta Khel is apparently the HQ of Hafiz Gul Bahadur (Pakistan Taliban) and has been the target of several drone strikes...some actually taking out Taliban fighters according to the Pakistani Army. I doubt the folks living there would be termed 'friendly'. The 'officials' that reported the event were anonymous and were located a (hard) 30 miles drive away in Miranshah. Are we getting the full story? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12779232 So the US killed another 40 civilians. Who needs suicide bombs when you can get robots to perform the acts of terrorism for you. So let's take your premise at face value: The United States is a terrorist state. 1) What do you propose should be done about this? 2) Compare and contrast with other "terrorist states". 3) Who has jurisdiction over this matter? Extra credit (10 points): What is the range of a Hellfire missile? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
William Ashley Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) So let's take your premise at face value: The United States is a terrorist state. 1) What do you propose should be done about this? Stop illegal acts of war and terrorism, and live up to an international standard that many nations do. 2) Compare and contrast with other "terrorist states". What other terrorist states? Most subnational terrorists arn't states. The US is special because its terrorism is largely comprised by violations of international law in other nations, in which if they were not a state they would simply be subnationals since they have no standing in the jurisdictions that the acts of terrorism are being perpetuated in. 3) Who has jurisdiction over this matter? In terms of the illegal actions. Pakistan. Politically though it might fall under the purview of the UN. Or international criminal court, INTERPOL, etc.. Morally every decent human being. Extra credit (10 points): What is the range of a Hellfire missile? Not far enough if you are American. (It depends on conditions at time of launch 8km with variance on weather and altitude of launch) (also there is more than one variant) I doubt it was accidental, this seems more a two birds situation. We'll track the car and fire it when it is around a large group of people who happen to be the local council discussing a public economic action that will assist the local economy - not with an american mining company. Edited March 17, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
DogOnPorch Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 What other terrorist states? Most subnational terrorists arn't states. The US is special because its terrorism is largely comprised by violations of international law in other nations, in which if they were not a state they would simply be subnationals since they have no standing in the jurisdictions that the acts of terrorism are being perpetuated in. In terms of the illegal actions. Pakistan. Politically though it might fall under the purview of the UN. Or international criminal court, INTERPOL, etc.. Morally every decent human being. Not far enough if you are American. Now you're sure these were civilians...right? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
William Ashley Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Now you're sure these were civilians...right? They were political civilians. Edited March 17, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Stop illegal acts of war and terrorism, and live up to an international standard that many nations do. What is this international standard? Are all other nations and groups held to this standard? Most subnational terrorists arn't states. The US is special because its terrorism is largely comprised by violations of international law in other nations, in which if they were not a state they would simply be subnationals since they have no standing in the jurisdictions that the acts of terrorism are being perpetuated in. Wouldn't that depend on the complicity of the nations wherein "acts of terrorism" are "perpetrated? How do you know that such actions are not so sanctioned? In terms of the illegal actions. Pakistan. Politically though it might fall under the purview of the UN. Or international criminal court, INTERPOL, etc.. Morally every decent human being. So you really have no legal framework identified, other than a shotgun blast hoping to hit something. Not far enough if you are American. (It depends on conditions at time of launch 8km with variance on weather and altitude of launch) (also there is more than one variant) Very good...you will get 9 out of 10 points! I doubt it was accidental, this seems more a two birds situation. We'll track the car and fire it when it is around a large group of people who happen to be the local council discussing a public economic action that will assist the local economy - not with an american mining company. Or Canadian mining company! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 They were political civilians. What the hell is that? You're just willing to believe an anonymous report that they were all civilians that came from a source 30 miles from the event. You don't know if they're civilian or Taliban, frankly. Heck...you're going on faith that it was Hellfire missiles that did the deed. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Shady Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 What other terrorist states? Yikes. I've had to use a double facepalm twice today! Why won't idiots stop posting! :angry: *Double Facepalm* Now you're sure these were civilians...right? How dare you! Most of the victims were believed to be civilians attending a tribal meeting near North Waziristan's regional capital, Miranshah.BBC Don't you know that Waziristan is known for it's peace and lawfulness. I'm sure the reason why that area is completely out of the control of the Pakistani government is just out of a misunderstanding. And the fact that Al Qaeda leaders such as Bin Laden himself fled there to hide is just a complete coinsidenced. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) What the hell is that? You're just willing to believe an anonymous report that they were all civilians that came from a source 30 miles from the event. You don't know if they're civilian or Taliban, frankly. Heck...you're going on faith that it was Hellfire missiles that did the deed. I have to say that this was my first response. Seems there's room for doubt when it's one side being reported about but the gospel 'that's the way it was no doubt about it' truth when it's the U.S. being accused. I searched for more information on this incident and I have to say that there's not enough right now to draw conclusions, yet some have no problem drawing conclusions about the Big Bad Western World. No matter what took place, the U.S. didn't act with the intent of seeking and targeting innocent civilians to kill, which is what suicide bombers/terrorists do. Edited March 17, 2011 by American Woman Quote
William Ashley Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) What is this international standard? Are all other nations and groups held to this standard? Yes, the standard is not to kill others nations citizens in their own country without a declaration of war being issued first. Likewise killing civilians is prohibited in a war. There is no eye for eye in international law. There is more than two positions in the world. There are many nations so blaming your illegal response on one isn't adequette, it is still illegal. For instance say someone murders your brother, this does not give you the right to murder the person you think killed your brother. Likewise it is not fair to blow up the entire neighbourhood the person lives in, killing 40 innocent people to get one person suspected of something. The proper course would be to capture or put out a formal extradiction order. Meanwhile you keep wars to the countries you are at war with, spill over isn't legal, it is sloppy illegal war that is contrary to standards of human rights. You being them would be a faster solution to kill yourself rather than act like they do because you are only propagating wrong behaviour. Wouldn't that depend on the complicity of the nations wherein "acts of terrorism" are "perpetrated? How do you know that such actions are not so sanctioned? Because they are against the law, and a violation of human rights. If a country sanctioned killing 40 of their own citizens it would still be illegal. It would actually be a war crime. Complaicency in commiting a war crime would be the second war crime, meaning both the country that sanctioned it and the country commiting it would have both commited war crimes. So you really have no legal framework identified, other than a shotgun blast hoping to hit something. No I have identified it and you are playing dumb. http://www.enotes.com/genocide-encyclopedia/assassination The United Nations Charter prohibits the aggressive use of force by one state against another. The Charter also prohibits interfering in the territory or affairs of another state. Chapter I of the Charter requires that all states must "settle their international disputes by peaceful means" and must "refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force". UN CHARTER CHAPTER 1 ARTICLE 1 # To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace; Edited March 17, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Posted March 17, 2011 Yes, the standard is not to kill others nations citizens in their own country without a declaration of war being issued first. Likewise killing civilians is prohibited in a war. This is utter nonsense...you are making it up as you go along. There is no eye for eye in international law. There is more than two positions in the world. There are many nations so blaming your illegal response on one isn't adequette, it is still illegal. For instance say someone murders your brother, this does not give you the right to murder the person you think killed your brother. Likewise it is not fair to blow up the entire neighbourhood the person lives in, killing 40 innocent people to get one person suspected of something. The proper course would be to capture or put out a formal extradiction order. Who said anything about fair? You are confusing your own personal belief system with current circumstances. See Operation Allied Force (Kosovo). Meanwhile you keep wars to the countries you are at war with, spill over isn't legal, it is sloppy illegal war that is contrary to standards of human rights. You being them would be a faster solution to kill yourself rather than act like they do because you are only propagating wrong behaviour. These are incoherent thoughts...please regroup and try again. Because they are against the law, and a violation of human rights. If a country sanctioned killing 40 of their own citizens it would still be illegal. It would actually be a war crime. You are all over the map....first you say there is no war...but then there is a war crime. Methinks you know nothing of the actual framework for such "crimes" (e.g. "crimes against the peace"). Yours is a just a disjointed rant. Nevertheless, I encourage you to bring suit in the World Court (ICJ). No I have identified it and you are playing dumb. Whereas you are not playing dumb. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
William Ashley Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) This is utter nonsense...you are making it up as you go along. Who said anything about fair? You are confusing your own personal belief system with current circumstances. See Operation Allied Force (Kosovo). These are incoherent thoughts...please regroup and try again. You are all over the map....first you say there is no war...but then there is a war crime. Methinks you know nothing of the actual framework for such "crimes" (e.g. "crimes against the peace"). Yours is a just a disjointed rant. Nevertheless, I encourage you to bring suit in the World Court (ICJ). Whereas you are not playing dumb. You are just a naysayer that doesn't deserve the skin they are in. You are scum. http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml KILLING CIVILIANS IS ILLEGAL, KILLING YOUR OWN CIVILIANS EXTRAJUDICIALLY IS ILLEGAL, KILLING OTHER PEOPLES CITIZENS IS AN ACT OF WAR. If you don't get this you lack basic intelligence and thus there can be no valid discusion with you until you grow more brain cells that work. Edited March 18, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 You are just a naysayer that doesn't deserve the skin they are in. You are scum. Thank you...this is an honour coming from you, a deported criminal. KILLING CIVILIANS IS ILLEGAL, KILLING YOUR OWN CIVILIANS EXTRAJUDICIALLY IS ILLEGAL, KILLING OTHER PEOPLES CITIZENS IS AN ACT OF WAR. Wrong...the Hague and subsequent Geneva Conventions require only that the killing of civilians in war must be avoided to the extent possible while attacking legitimate targets. If you don't get this you lack basic intelligence and thus there can be no valid discusion with you until you grow more brain cells that work. Let's talk after you convict and sentence PM Chretien for such "war crimes". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
William Ashley Posted March 18, 2011 Author Report Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Thank you...this is an honour coming from you, a deported criminal. You are a liar and scum. I am not a deported criminal so why don't you drink your bloody paint. My exit from the US was due to arriving in the US and them lying about my intentions, stating I intended to move to California and collect welfare, a complete and utter lie. If you check my documentation it states "intends to live and work in the US" complete BULLSH-T. I was held in a federal prison on arbitary grounds without being charged or allowed access to a judge then weeks later told I would be held for months if I tried to see one, because they said I intended to do something I didn't. That is the junk coming from your country. Your country is utterly broken when they force you to stay and then provide paid work for you, even though you were just on your way home from medical appointments and a vacation. (oh and people said it cost the US tax payer $200 a day, plus my free flight home - you are nuts) Wrong...the Hague and subsequent Geneva Conventions require only that the killing of civilians in war must be avoided to the extent possible while attacking legitimate targets. Paint away you are trying to legitimize the murder of 40 civilians in a country you arn't at war with. LIES LIES AND MISINFORMATION. You have no standing. Let's talk after you convict and sentence PM Chretien for such "war crimes". Lets not. Condoning murder of 40 civilians is NOT ACCEPTABLE, you are abetting heinous crimes against humanity. Edited March 18, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) You are a liar and scum. I am not a deported criminal so why don't you drink your bloody paint. You are a self admitted deported criminal...banned from the US for life. My exit from the US was due to arriving in the US and them lying about my intentions, stating I intended to move to California and collect welfare, a complete and utter lie. If you check my documentation it state "intends to live and work in the US" complete BULLSHIT. Many deported criminals claim this. To them, I say...Buh-Bye! Paint away you are trying to legitimize the murder of 40 civilians in a country you arn't at war with. LIES LIES AND MISINFORMATION. You have no standing. Is that a crime too? Edited March 18, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
William Ashley Posted March 18, 2011 Author Report Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) You are a self admitted deported criminal...banned from the US for life. You are a liar in denial, and I most certainly have not been deported (I havn't been in the US legally in those instances in regard as I wasn't admited to the US only the border point when dealing with, volunatry and expedited removals. I was specifically told I was marked down as a voluntary departure on my exit. Although this is because my status has been issued because they basically held me and wouldn't let me leave even though I requested it. then they said I didn't leave, even though I was being held by them and they wouldn't let me go. To say the least no I am not a deported criminal. I have never been tried in the US for anything, I have never seen a judge in the US, and you are simply mistaken in suggesting I am a criminal when this isn't the case. Is that a crime too? Yes, Yes it is, if it is to assist the cover up of murders. Edited March 18, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) You are a liar in denial, and I most certainly have not been deported (I havn't been in the US legally in those instances in regard as I wasn't admited to the US only the border point when dealing with, volunatry and expedited removals. I was specifically told I was marked down as a voluntary departure on my exit. Although this is because my status has been issued because they basically held me and wouldn't let me leave even though I requested it. then they said I didn't leave, even though I was being held by them and they wouldn't let me go. To say the least no I am not a deported criminal. I have never been tried in the US for anything, I have never seen a judge in the US, and you are simply mistaken in suggesting I am a criminal when this isn't the case. Hey...that was pretty funny. Next time you try to do something like that you are going straight to Syria! Yes, Yes it is, if it is to assist the cover up of murders. Now it's murders? Make up your mind! Edited March 18, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 Now you're sure these were civilians...right? You're sure they were terrorists right? Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
GostHacked Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 The CIA can be considered a terrorist organization. They do all the things that the USA claims are acts of terrorism, but just in other countries. Hell the CIA has had a long history of experimenting on it's own citizens it is supposed to protect. I know I know .. I am crazy, how could I say things like that, I hate america, blah blah blah. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
William Ashley Posted March 18, 2011 Author Report Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Hey...that was pretty funny. Next time you try to do something like that you are going straight to Syria! That's your $1000 and my free vacation. (ok less than a $1000 maybe - I'm really surpised these things are flying to Damascus for like $1000 return, that is rediculously cheap. Check this out: $1161 Damascus, Syria (DAM) to Toronto, ON, Canada (YTO) Found today ago on Secret Carrier Now it's murders? Make up your mind! All of the above. Edited March 18, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
DogOnPorch Posted March 18, 2011 Report Posted March 18, 2011 You're sure they were terrorists right? I don't know. What proof do you have they weren't? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
William Ashley Posted March 18, 2011 Author Report Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) I don't know. What proof do you have they weren't? Them being the local jurga or "Town Council" or court is a pretty good indicator. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jirga Edited March 18, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
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