Shady Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 This post is once again for the purveyors of disingenuousness. Seeking to conflate public unions with private unions. That’s because public sector unions and private sector unions are very different creatures.* Private sector unions push against the interests of shareholders and management; public sector unions push against the interests of taxpayers. * Private sector union members know that their employers could go out of business, so they have an incentive to mitigate their demands; public sector union members work for state monopolies and have no such interest. * Private sector unions confront managers who have an incentive to push back against their demands. Public sector unions face managers who have an incentive to give into them for the sake of their own survival. * Most important, public sector unions help choose those they negotiate with. Through gigantic campaign contributions and overall clout, they have enormous influence over who gets elected to bargain with them, especially in state and local races. The liars and charlatans that continue to push the blood libel of no difference between public and private unions, are the same kind of partisan degenerates that like to conflate issues such as legal immigration with illegal immigration. Pretending that they're one in the same. Quote
BubberMiley Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 The liars and charlatans that continue to push the blood libel of no difference between public and private unions, are the same kind of partisan degenerates that like to conflate issues such as legal immigration with illegal immigration. Pretending that they're one in the same. Blood libel? Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
CANADIEN Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) This post is once again for the purveyors of disingenuousness. Seeking to conflate public unions with private unions. One only needs to look at the claim that public sector unions push against the interests of taxpayers. I guess the public has no interest in its schools, public institutions, police, fire departments staffed with people who are working in fair and agreed upon working conditions? And YOU are calling other people liars and charlatans? And on top of that, using the term "bllod libel". No wonder you are a fan of Sarah Palin. Disgusting is a feeble word to describe your misuse of the term. Edited March 13, 2011 by CANADIEN Quote
Pliny Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 One only needs to look at the claim that public sector unions push against the interests of taxpayers. I guess the public has no interest in its schools, public institutions, police, fire departments staffed with people who are working in fair and agreed upon working conditions? Of course they have an interest - That's why all the fuss. Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 Of course they have an interest - That's why all the fuss. Indeed....by law, the American and Canadian Armed Forces cannot be unionized. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
ToadBrother Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 Indeed....by law, the American and Canadian Armed Forces cannot be unionized. Well yes, but I'm not sure the situations are analogous. The military holds a rather special, and in a democracy, somewhat awkward position, so it's not quite the same thing as court stenographers or filing clerks wanting to unionize. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 Well yes, but I'm not sure the situations are analogous. The military holds a rather special, and in a democracy, somewhat awkward position, so it's not quite the same thing as court stenographers or filing clerks wanting to unionize. Oh nooooooooo...we have been told that the "poor workers" must have the "right" to organize and negotiate for their precious labor. What could be more precious than their very lives? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
ToadBrother Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 Oh nooooooooo...we have been told that the "poor workers" must have the "right" to organize and negotiate for their precious labor. What could be more precious than their very lives? I'm not sure what the point of this particular response was. I mean, soldiers are not allowed to sue the government either, so is that an argument for banning all citizens from suing the government? Quote
bloodyminded Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 I'm not sure what the point of this particular response was. Exactly. That is the point. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Pliny Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) Well yes, but I'm not sure the situations are analogous. The military holds a rather special, and in a democracy, somewhat awkward position, so it's not quite the same thing as court stenographers or filing clerks wanting to unionize. The people of WI, albeit rather belatedly in comparison to other States, have arrived at the point where they realize that public sector unions cannot just vote themselves wages, benefits and entitlements because they demand them. Obama, under the auspices of FDR and Jimmy Carter (those renowned purveyors of social progressivism,) won't allow federal employees the privilege for that reason. Why do you feel differently about State government? I know individual States should make the decision themselves and they did only to finally realize the nightmare they created. 100,000 people can't be wrong about maintaining their privileged positions, can they? Edited March 13, 2011 by Pliny Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure what the point of this particular response was. I mean, soldiers are not allowed to sue the government either, so is that an argument for banning all citizens from suing the government? This is false...soldiers can bring suit against the government...and have done so. Not sure why you wish to exclude this labor class from the overall discussion....oh wait...sure I do. Are unionized public employees providing more/better "service" than the armed forces? Edited March 13, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 Blood libel? He is trying to invoke one of his fave gals on the planet! And no it makes no sense the way it was used here either. Quote
pinko Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 This is false...soldiers can bring suit against the government...and have done so. Not sure why you wish to exclude this labor class from the overall discussion....oh wait...sure I do. Are unionized public employees providing more/better "service" than the armed forces? Are private armies like those of Eric Prince immune from prosecution? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 Are private armies like those of Eric Prince immune from prosecution? Not unless immunity is granted by the government! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
pinko Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 Not unless immunity is granted by the government! You might want to acquaint yourself with the events in Iraq and the activities of Blackwater employees while acting in Iraq. By the way how are employment conditions enforced in the American military? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 You might want to acquaint yourself with the events in Iraq and the activities of Blackwater employees while acting in Iraq. Why? Are you also advocating for a mercenary union? By the way how are employment conditions enforced in the American military? UCMJ Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
pinko Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 Why? Are you also advocating for a mercenary union? UCMJ No. I am pointing out that your domestic law does not include private armies. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 No. I am pointing out that your domestic law does not include private armies. Yes it does....we just call it "Safety and Security". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
pinko Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 Yes it does....we just call it "Safety and Security". So when Toadbrother says "I mean, soldiers are not allowed to sue the government" he is correct. Quote
Shady Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 He is trying to invoke one of his fave gals on the planet! And no it makes no sense the way it was used here either. Nope. I'm just using what is referred to as a rhetorical flourish. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 So when Toadbrother says "I mean, soldiers are not allowed to sue the government" he is correct. No he is not...."soldiers" bring suit against the government on a routine basis. Again, use the tools that America has provided for you to verify this yourself (Internet, Search Engine, CPU, Operating System, etc.) Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 Nope. I'm just using what is referred to as a rhetorical flourish. I like it..."blood libel" really sets them off! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
pinko Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) No he is not...."soldiers" bring suit against the government on a routine basis. Again, use the tools that America has provided for you to verify this yourself (Internet, Search Engine, CPU, Operating System, etc.) Except in the context of employment such matters go through another process described in the link you provided. You are wrong and Toadbrother is right. Edited March 13, 2011 by pinko Quote
BubberMiley Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 I like it..."blood libel" really sets them off! Only when used in a completely bizarre way that can only suggest you have no idea what it means. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 Except in the context of employment such matters go through another process described in the link you provided. You are wrong and Toadbrother is right. If you say so...neither you nor "Toadbrother" have served in the US Armed Forces, have experience in US employment law, or even live in the United States. Googling from Canada does not make you an expert. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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