pinko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 If this hard line from Walker was just bluffing in order to get some traction in negotiations, then at least it's still about what happens in the negotiations. I'm glad to see that the union has done their part to help with the problem, they deserve praise for this. I'm afraid, though, that they will continue to be scapegoated and that their concessions will be forgotten. I agree with you. Here is a link to the Wisconsin labour code http://legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/Stat0111.pdf Quote
pinko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Oversight of the Wisconsin Retirement System http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/ib/06IB2.pdf Quote
Yukon Jack Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 I think you have been reading too many stories about the fifties. I actually LIVED those stories, unlike a young punk like .... Quote
pinko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) I actually LIVED those stories, unlike a young punk like .... Beaver Cleaver Edited February 21, 2011 by pinko Quote
Yukon Jack Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Beaver Cleaver pinko, you were obviously "taught" by unionized public school "teachers". Did your Mommy instruct you to edit your post? Edited February 21, 2011 by Yukon Jack Quote
pinko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) pinko, you were obviously "taught" by unionized public school "teachers". Did your Mommy instruct you to edit your post? Ward and June Cleaver were the parents of Beaver and Wally. My mom taught me that some people are assholes much like you. Edited February 21, 2011 by pinko Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 My mom taught me that some people are assholes much like you. And again, you insult people when you have no arguments left. You should just concede if you think you've lost. Calling people names looks bad, and actually just highlights the fact that you have no arguments left in your satchel. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 pinko, you were obviously "taught" by unionized public school "teachers". and... your arguments should be good enough that they don't rely on doing an ancestry search on your opponents. Logic should be universal and - if well presented - unassailable. I don't base my arguments on whether my opponent is American, Irish, or from the Yukon. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
pinko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 And again, you insult people when you have no arguments left. You should just concede if you think you've lost. Calling people names looks bad, and actually just highlights the fact that you have no arguments left in your satchel. You overlooked the responses from the other poster. Don't think I am prepared to cater to your posting preferences. If I have something to say I will say it. If you don't like it scroll on by. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 You overlooked the responses from the other poster. Don't think I am prepared to cater to your posting preferences. If I have something to say I will say it. If you don't like it scroll on by. My posting preferences are actually reflected in the rules for this forum. Have you read them ? It doesn't sound like you have. See my retort to Union Jack above - I posted it one minute before your post. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 My posting preferences ... Also - to point out. This forum is my place as much as it is yours. I have been here almost 8 years, and you have been here almost 2 months: I don't like to argue from authority, but I do think I have a better feeling for what flies on MLW. I bring this up because - as this is OUR place - I don't think that the behavior of any one poster should be considered to be exempt from my comments, any more than you littering on my street is your business only. I like good arguments, which you sometimes bring to the table, but with a garnish of trash. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Yukon Jack Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 I got news for you, Jack. I happen to be an enlightened conservative. And I pointed out to you already that your sole justification for what seems to be a life-long obsession with hating unions was that a couple of union guys were once rude to you. That set you to hating all unions and doing everything you could to make yourself 'popular' to your fellow workers, who naturally returned the compliment. From all you've said, if those guys had just come over and helped you out then you'd have spent the next forty years as a happy member of the union. :-) Not at all, Scotty. I have always believed in individual responsibility and individual duty and obligations. Unions are THE perfect anathema of that. Unions encourage and promote laziness, slagging, lying (witness the so-called teachers phoning in sick in Wisconsin) and dishonesty enforced by physical violence and/or murder and death. I joined the union as a necessity to obtain the job I described a few posts back, which re-enforced my born belief that belonging to any organization whose membership is thugs and thieves is wrong. I made my life what is is on my own. Could it have been better with union help? Perhaps, but then I could not look in the mirror and like what I see. Quote
pinko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 My posting preferences are actually reflected in the rules for this forum. Have you read them ? It doesn't sound like you have. See my retort to Union Jack above - I posted it one minute before your post. I did notice your retort to Union Jack. I will continue to respond to posts as I deem necessary. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 I did notice your retort to Union Jack. I will continue to respond to posts as I deem necessary. Fair enough. And I will report every below-the-belt insult you make until you go on an unwanted vacation. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Yukon Jack Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 and... your arguments should be good enough that they don't rely on doing an ancestry search on your opponents. Logic should be universal and - if well presented - unassailable. I don't base my arguments on whether my opponent is American, Irish, or from the Yukon. My arguments - at least regarding unions - are totally unassailable. Quote
Charles Anthony Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Everybody, Stop the silly, childish, back and forth nonsense. Just focus on discussing the topics and avoid making everything so damn personal. Ch. A. Quote We do not have time for a meeting of the flat earth society. << Où sont mes amis ? Ils sont ici, ils sont ici... >>
Yukon Jack Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 I did notice your retort to Union Jack. I will continue to respond to posts as I deem necessary. pinko, have you considered getting your Grade 2 diploma in reading comprehension? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 My arguments - at least regarding unions - are totally unassailable. And yet I have assailed them. That's odd. Furthermore, I don't think you really understand American values fully. They really believe in the constitution, and their presidents - which you don't seem to do based on your posts. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
ToadBrother Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 I joined the union as a necessity to obtain the job I described a few posts back, which re-enforced my born belief that belonging to any organization whose membership is thugs and thieves is wrong. I made my life what is is on my own. Could it have been better with union help? Perhaps, but then I could not look in the mirror and like what I see. A mean-spirited jerk? Quote
Yukon Jack Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 You overlooked the responses from the other poster. Don't think I am prepared to cater to your posting preferences. If I have something to say I will say it. If you don't like it scroll on by. Your problem, pinko, is that you say it even when you have nothing to say. Quote
pinko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Fair enough. And I will report every below-the-belt insult you make until you go on an unwanted vacation. That is fine by me. Quote
Yukon Jack Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 And yet I have assailed them. That's odd. Furthermore, I don't think you really understand American values fully. They really believe in the constitution, and their presidents - which you don't seem to do based on your posts. I am willing, wanting and waiting to stop right there. You WIN, I LOSE. Quote
Shady Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 You overlooked the responses from the other poster. Don't think I am prepared to cater to your posting preferences. If I have something to say I will say it. If you don't like it scroll on by. It's not his posting preferences, it's the forum rules. If you can post within said rules, then maybe you shouldn't be posting here. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 I am willing, wanting and waiting to stop right there. You WIN, I LOSE. This, in playground terms, is known as taking your ball and going home. Needless to say, I don't accept your assessment of the result here. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Shady Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Because the system doesn't work if people don't join. I'm not sure one can use the word join if it's involuntary. The term join is an indication of some type of choice. There is no choice. It's not a union at all then. If you want in - with the wages and the benefits that collective bargaining entail - they you have to agree to be part of the general agreement that is being negotiated. That seems to be the fundamental flaw of unions. I would propose that workers have a choice to join or not to join. But if a worker chooses not to join, then they would do so at the expense of the salary and benefits negotiated by the union. They'd have to agree to what most likely would be less pay, or less benefits. Quote
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