Scotty Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 By now I'm sure most have heard at least something about the sexual assault on CBS news correspondent Lara Logan in Egypt last week. I'm troubled by various aspects of what has been said and done so far, and the available news, which seems scant given how much media play this story has been given. Initial report The first thing which struck me was the violation of the reporter's privacy involved in the initial CBS report, which stated she was subjected to d "a brutal and sustained sexual assault and beating." Was it actually necessary to impart that much information to the world? Did she consent to the wording? And what does the report actually mean? It implies rape, but there have been a number of denials of this. In addition, CBS thoughtfully reported the next day that she had suffered 'internal injuries'. Again, was Logan consulted about these reports? The media doesn't seem to know quite how to handle the story. There have been a number of awkward reports, and at least one forced resignation from one idiot who basically joked about it, saying she was trying to outdo Anderson Cooper, then played down the importance of the attack as, to paraphrase "big deal, she was probably just groped", and she's a warmonger anyway. We Ask the Wrong Questions When Female Journalists Are Assaulted There have also been a number of suggestions that it was basically her fault, that women, particularly western women, and even more particularly attractive blondes have no business going into areas where law and order has degenerated. Egypt, or at least, Cairo, is groper central, with 98% of foreign women reporting sexual harassment or assault during their stay there - on a daily basis. And that's during a time of law and order! A network source is quoted by a number of bloggers and sites as saying the attackers screamed "Jew" at her during the attack, though she is not Jewish. During her early detention by Egyptian soldiers she said the soldiers also accused her of being an Israeli spy. This seems an indication of the continued fixation, even obsession many in the Arab world have with Israel and Jews. But, interestingly, this is absent from most mainstream reports. And as noted by the Jerusalem Post, CBS took a week to even report the attack on her at all. The media, according to the Post, have been attacked repeatedly during the uprising but have been reluctant to report such assaults because it doesn't fit in with the vision (of the crowds) of brave and noble democracy lovers they're trying to create for their audience. Pointing out that many of them are misogynistic anti-Semites doesn't go well with that vision. For my own part, I think that women have to be especially wary anywhere that social breakdown has resulted in a lack of law and order. And from those I've known who have spent time in the middle east, there is a strange fascination with blondes among Arab men. It's as though the mythology created by Hollywood of the blonde as 'sex goddess' has been absorbed wholesale by Arab men, and given their ignorance of sexuality and the forbidden nature of female sexual enjoyment (97% of Egyptian women have undergone female genital mutilation) an attractive blonde can be like a vision from another planet to some of these people. I don't blame her for what happened, or even for going there. But I do blame CBS for not having enough security around her. Jerusalem Post Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Mr.Canada Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 I spoke to a young woman from Palestine and she told me that I was a racist and all white people are racist. She then went on to inform me that she views whites and Jews as the same thing...lol. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 ...I don't blame her for what happened, or even for going there. But I do blame CBS for not having enough security around her. I think the "sexual" aspect of the assault is being overplayed. Assault is assault...this same media angle was taken during the Gulf War when an American helicopter pilot was shot down, broke both her arms, and was sexually assaulted in captivity. She would have no special talk of her ordeal compared to other POWs, male or female, who were also assaulted. Some reporters and journalists have taken far greater risks to win a Pulitzer. Just ask Daniel Pearl's severed head. No special protection is warranted for Ms. Logan over what is prudent for any reporter, journalist, or crew. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Scotty Posted February 18, 2011 Author Report Posted February 18, 2011 I think the "sexual" aspect of the assault is being overplayed. Assault is assault...this same media angle was taken during the Gulf War when an American helicopter pilot was shot down, broke both her arms, and was sexually assaulted in captivity. She would have no special talk of her ordeal compared to other POWs, male or female, who were also assaulted. I'm not a woman, but I believe I have a good deal of empathy for women, and I believe sexual assault can be more severe and damaging, long term (emotionally) than other types of assault. Not to mention the fact sexual assault often comes on top of the regular beatings in these cases. No special protection is warranted for Ms. Logan over what is prudent for any reporter, journalist, or crew. You know, I just disagree. I think that an attractive woman in that type of situation is more prone to attract violence than, say, a large, strong man. I don't in any way mean to imply that is her fault or that there's anything she can do about it. That's simply the reality of the situation. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Mr.Canada Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) I think that an attractive woman in that type of situation is more prone to attract violence than, say, a large, strong man. Did you know a hairy man in gay community is called a bear. Edited February 18, 2011 by Mr.Canada Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 I'm not a woman, but I believe I have a good deal of empathy for women, and I believe sexual assault can be more severe and damaging, long term (emotionally) than other types of assault. Not to mention the fact sexual assault often comes on top of the regular beatings in these cases. Males can be and have been "sexually" assaulted. I think males take a very patriarchal view of the matter both as perpetrators and law enforcement. You know, I just disagree. I think that an attractive woman in that type of situation is more prone to attract violence than, say, a large, strong man. I don't in any way mean to imply that is her fault or that there's anything she can do about it. That's simply the reality of the situation. Sorry, but that's the deal going in. Ms. Logan has equally leveraged her "attractiveness" for advantage over others. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shakeyhands Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Did you know a hairy man in gay community is called a bear. Will examples be shown in your video? Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
WIP Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 The media doesn't seem to know quite how to handle the story. There have been a number of awkward reports, and at least one forced resignation from one idiot who basically joked about it, saying she was trying to outdo Anderson Cooper, then played down the importance of the attack as, to paraphrase "big deal, she was probably just groped", and she's a warmonger anyway. Whatever the details are, I found a little insight on Al Jazeera English Channel last night when they interviewed an Egyptian female activist about problems women were experiencing of late in the Square. From her summation the crowd that gathered on Friday and over the weekend, was not the same as the crowds protesting before Mubarak was forced out of office. It seems that in the early days, only the committed activists, willing to risk death and/or imprisonment went to Tahrir Square. She said that she stayed overnight several nights in a row and had no problems from the men who made up the majority of protesters. But, after the fall, the crowds turned into celebrations, and more people came into the Square who had played no part in the protests, and were just looking for action. From a cultural perspective, Egypt and many other Middle Eastern countries (India also) never had women in public before the last 30 years or so. The covering up of women in many cases has come from the women, not the men, in an attempt to achieve some protection from unwanted groping or fondling from men when they are riding buses and going to and from work. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
Scotty Posted February 18, 2011 Author Report Posted February 18, 2011 [quote name='WIP' date='18 February 2011 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1298058559' post='627556' From a cultural perspective, Egypt and many other Middle Eastern countries (India also) never had women in public before the last 30 years or so. The covering up of women in many cases has come from the women, not the men, in an attempt to achieve some protection from unwanted groping or fondling from men when they are riding buses and going to and from work. Well, if that's the case it hasn't worked. The great majority of those who are groped are dressed modestly, and wearing the hijab. It doesn't seem to matter to Egyptian men what they wear, except that they seem more free in their groping of foreign women, perhaps believing them to be more helpless. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Well, if that's the case it hasn't worked. The great majority of those who are groped are dressed modestly, and wearing the hijab. It doesn't seem to matter to Egyptian men what they wear, except that they seem more free in their groping of foreign women, perhaps believing them to be more helpless. Here is an easy solution for that problem: http://www.gunshopfinder.com/smithandwesson/smithandwesson3913ls.asp Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Here is an easy solution for that problem: http://www.gunshopfinder.com/smithandwesson/smithandwesson3913ls.asp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KARfBLDHMBs Light load...sorta. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Cool! That would sure take my mind off of groping anybody! Don't miss Top Shot - Season 2 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Cool! That would sure take my mind off of groping anybody! Don't miss Top Shot - Season 2 Ever fired a Lady Smith? Looks like it would have the Walther bite if your hands aren't that of a lady's... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Ever fired a Lady Smith? Looks like it would have the Walther bite if your hands aren't that of a lady's... I've only seen the .38 in action at the range....it is smaller but not terribly so. Like a starter pistol! http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hogvalleyproducts.com/images/lipseys/file1a70df5d82e542bba586c3f384b00717.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hogvalleyproducts.com/index.php%3Fmain_page%3Dindex%26cPath%3D3010_3018_3331&h=408&w=500&sz=38&tbnid=O2ZO3oSFJeLV3M:&tbnh=106&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D.38%2Bladysmith&zoom=1&q=.38+ladysmith&hl=en&usg=__2aY8MPbhpzlSkUI3woWp8ZFZ-TY=&sa=X&ei=u_ReTa7AI4ihtwec9K2FDA&sqi=2&ved=0CGkQ9QEwCA Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 I've only seen the .38 in action at the range....it is smaller but not terribly so. Like a starter pistol! http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hogvalleyproducts.com/images/lipseys/file1a70df5d82e542bba586c3f384b00717.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hogvalleyproducts.com/index.php%3Fmain_page%3Dindex%26cPath%3D3010_3018_3331&h=408&w=500&sz=38&tbnid=O2ZO3oSFJeLV3M:&tbnh=106&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D.38%2Bladysmith&zoom=1&q=.38+ladysmith&hl=en&usg=__2aY8MPbhpzlSkUI3woWp8ZFZ-TY=&sa=X&ei=u_ReTa7AI4ihtwec9K2FDA&sqi=2&ved=0CGkQ9QEwCA That's a nice little gun. Maybe a 'Lady Logan' version should be offered. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
kimmy Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 I think Dick is right... the real reason this is in the news isn't that a reporter was assaulted, but that the reporter was *sexually* assaulted. A network source is quoted by a number of bloggers and sites as saying the attackers screamed "Jew" at her during the attack, though she is not Jewish. During her early detention by Egyptian soldiers she said the soldiers also accused her of being an Israeli spy. This seems an indication of the continued fixation, even obsession many in the Arab world have with Israel and Jews. But, interestingly, this is absent from most mainstream reports. And as noted by the Jerusalem Post, CBS took a week to even report the attack on her at all. The media, according to the Post, have been attacked repeatedly during the uprising but have been reluctant to report such assaults because it doesn't fit in with the vision (of the crowds) of brave and noble democracy lovers they're trying to create for their audience. Pointing out that many of them are misogynistic anti-Semites doesn't go well with that vision. That's a very interesting point. Here is an easy solution for that problem: http://www.gunshopfinder.com/smithandwesson/smithandwesson3913ls.asp Well, Raymond Davis went that route in Pakistan, and it's not working out very well right now. Turns out that police don't appreciate it when foreigners shoot people, even if they claim self-defense. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
DogOnPorch Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) Lara would have needed much more than a six-shooter to get her out of that situation. Edited February 19, 2011 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
WIP Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 Well, if that's the case it hasn't worked. The great majority of those who are groped are dressed modestly, and wearing the hijab. It doesn't seem to matter to Egyptian men what they wear, except that they seem more free in their groping of foreign women, perhaps believing them to be more helpless. Yes, but sexual harassment is worse for women who aren't all covered up. In India, women complain that if they are wearing Western-style shorter skirts they are literally violated on the buses and trains, and unless it devolves into outright rape, the police will not even file charges against the offender....the presumption being that she was enticing male attention. The same thing still goes in Italy from what we are hearing lately from women who have had large demonstrations against Berlusconi, and want these issues of sexual harassment and the constant bombardment of nude women on TV shows dealt with.....most of the TV happens to be owned by Berlusconi, so his latest sex scandal court trial has served as a useful event to deal with these issues. So, it's not just the Middle East where this is a problem; it's the presumption in many traditional cultures that men either arent' capable of, or shouldn't have to control their sexual impulses.....and it's the thinking of conservatives on this side of the ocean too! Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 Well, Raymond Davis went that route in Pakistan, and it's not working out very well right now. Turns out that police don't appreciate it when foreigners shoot people, even if they claim self-defense. Nevertheless, Mr. Davis has not been sexually assaulted...yet! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) I think the "sexual" aspect of the assault is being overplayed. Assault is assault...What a frighteningly ignorant thing to say.edit: I should clarify. Yes... the "sexual" aspect is being overplayed by sensationalist media outlets. However, assault is most certainly NOT assault. Sexual assault whether against a man or woman is markedly different than merely being beaten. Edited February 20, 2011 by cybercoma Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 What a frighteningly ignorant thing to say. edit: I should clarify. Yes... the "sexual" aspect is being overplayed by sensationalist media outlets. However, assault is most certainly NOT assault. Sexual assault whether against a man or woman is markedly different than merely being beaten. What an incredibly ignorant thing to say, revealing a very ancient and patriarchal view. There are ways to assault someone that you haven't even dreamed of. Sexual assault would be welcomed in comparison. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 What an incredibly ignorant thing to say, revealing a very ancient and patriarchal view. There are ways to assault someone that you haven't even dreamed of. Sexual assault would be welcomed in comparison. Talk about ignorance ...... Quote
August1991 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) I think the "sexual" aspect of the assault is being overplayed.I disagree.I lived several years in the Middle East (Syria, Lebanon, Jordan), travelled across the Maghreb and I have spent too many hours talking to both women and men, whether Shia, Sunni or Christian, Arab, Kurd or Armenian. (I've even been to Israel and Iran.) Tribe matters, but sex matters more. IMHO, the basic problem in the Middle East is sexual. There are many frustrated people. I once started a thread on the topic. (BTW, it includes a pre-moderator Charles post.) Edited February 20, 2011 by August1991 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 ...Tribe matters, but sex matters more. IMHO, the basic problem in the Middle East is sexual. There are many frustrated people. So Daniel Pearl was really beheaded as the "star" in a S & M snuff flick? Interesting premise. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 So Daniel Pearl was really beheaded as the "star" in a S & M snuff flick? Interesting premise. If you peruse a site like this... http://theync.com/ ...one can see that beheadings are a daily event in both the Islamic world and the drug cartels. Common...not always reported. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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