Should there be changes for the working poor?

Michael Hardner · February 16, 2011

Since we've agreed that we're not politicians, maybe we can agree that the "punish the poor" ideas aren't practical - even if they're popular with a disgruntled and embittered minority. After all, none of us are running for office right ?

Saipan · February 16, 2011

If when you say slightly lower, you mean nearly identical, you're right. The Australian dollar, as of this moment, is worth $1.01 Canadian.

Where did you get that?

C$1.00 = US$1.01 Not Australian.

cybercoma · February 16, 2011

The "working poor" can look for better jobs if they don't like the one they have currently, whatever that may be.

Are there better jobs to be had? Do they have the skills for those jobs? Can they look for other jobs while they're working fulltime and perhaps taking care of a family? The world is not as black and white as you seem to think it is.

Saipan · February 16, 2011

Are there better jobs to be had?

Yes. Start business and create few more.

Muddy · February 16, 2011

My family was the working poor. There were four of us kids. Three created business and one diden`t. Gue3ss who was bitter at life? You make your own luck. For some being the honest working poor is all they have in the tank. They should be respected for working at what they can . They are not layabouts.

cybercoma · February 16, 2011

Yes. Start business and create few more.

Take me through how someone making minimum wage starts their own business. I'm interested in how you think that would work.

cybercoma · February 16, 2011

My family was the working poor. There were four of us kids. Three created business and one diden`t. Gue3ss who was bitter at life? You make your own luck. For some being the honest working poor is all they have in the tank. They should be respected for working at what they can . They are not layabouts.

I guess if you three did it than anyone can, right? If they don't, they simply don't want to and are lazy. Is that what you're getting at?

Mr.Canada · February 16, 2011

Take me through how someone making minimum wage starts their own business. I'm interested in how you think that would work.

Very simple. Buy a lawnmower, a trimmer a rake and some garbage bags. Start a lawn care business. People pay monthly.

Buy a bucket, squeegee, soap, sponge. Wash windows of businesses.

This is just two example of a business that can be started for much less then $500.

Start small doing it part time until you build a customer base.

Sitting around accepting the fact that you refused to finish your schooling isn't my fault. It's yours and the rest of us don't owe you anything due to it.

if you don't want to make min wage then do something about it but don't expect a handout.

Saipan · February 16, 2011

Take me through how someone making minimum wage starts their own business. I'm interested in how you think that would work.

Watch Dragon's Den. Multi-millionaire Robert Herjovec started in Canada with 20 bucks.

Some Asians start with washing dishes and laundry, and in less than couple of decade send their kids to University and own stores.

Michael Hardner · February 16, 2011

Watch Dragon's Den. Multi-millionaire Robert Herjovec started in Canada with 20 bucks.

Some Asians start with washing dishes and laundry, and in less than couple of decade send their kids to University and own stores.

So everybody should do it ?

I would guess that there are more failed entrepreneurs on welfare than there are success stories, especially seeing the sad cases that show up on his show.

cybercoma · February 16, 2011

Very simple. Buy a lawnmower, a trimmer a rake and some garbage bags. Start a lawn care business. People pay monthly.

Buy a bucket, squeegee, soap, sponge. Wash windows of businesses.

This is just two example of a business that can be started for much less then $500.

Start small doing it part time until you build a customer base.

After paying for rent, utilities, phone and food, where does someone making less than $10/hr get the means to save $500 to buy these other things? Without a vehicle, how do you expect them to carry around their tools? Businesses typically have contracts with outside firms to clean their windows or they just pay one of their own employees to do it. How do they find a business willing to pay them? How do they balance their other job, while being flexible enough for customers to get off the ground? If it's a single mother on welfare, who is going to watch her kids while she works? What if the person is physically unable to do that kind of work? How does someone develop the skills to do a job that interests them and that they might be better suited for if they're spending all their time on this?

Mr.Canada · February 17, 2011

After paying for rent, utilities, phone and food, where does someone making less than $10/hr get the means to save $500 to buy these other things? Without a vehicle, how do you expect them to carry around their tools? Businesses typically have contracts with outside firms to clean their windows or they just pay one of their own employees to do it. How do they find a business willing to pay them? How do they balance their other job, while being flexible enough for customers to get off the ground? If it's a single mother on welfare, who is going to watch her kids while she works? What if the person is physically unable to do that kind of work? How does someone develop the skills to do a job that interests them and that they might be better suited for if they're spending all their time on this?

These options aren't the only available, just two of thousands.

Why is it my fault the way these people lives turned out? These people were irresponsible now we, the taxpayers have to pay for it.

I don't run their lives. They need to figure out how to fix their own lives. I did it, they can too.

I rented a room when first getting off the streets, not an apartment.

You must be saying that poor people aren't smart enough to figure out how to make their lives better. I do not agree with you.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Mr.Canada

Saipan · February 17, 2011

So everybody should do it ?

YES!

I would guess that there are more failed entrepreneurs on welfare than there are success stories, especially seeing the sad cases that show up on his show.

Someone has to pick the cotton.

cybercoma · February 17, 2011

These options aren't the only available, just two of thousands.

Why is it my fault the way these people lives turned out? These people were irresponsible now we, the taxpayers have to pay for it.

I don't run their lives. They need to figure out how to fix their own lives. I did it, they can too.

I rented a room when first getting off the streets, not an apartment.

You must be saying that poor people aren't smart enough to figure out how to make their lives better. I do not agree with you.

Are you suggesting that all unemployment is the fault of the unemployed? Everyone who is willing and able to work can find a job? Besides, we're talking about the working poor here. So, anyone that is in a minimum wage job that doesn't find one that pays more just isn't looking hard enough? Edited February 17, 2011 by cybercoma

Mr.Canada · February 17, 2011

Are you suggesting that all unemployment is the fault of the unemployed? Everyone who is willing and able to work can find a job? Besides, we're talking about the working poor here. So, anyone that is in a minimum wage job that doesn't find one that pays more just isn't looking hard enough?

No it isn't always the fault of the unemployed, of coarse not. Everyone should be able to find a job there are tons out there. If someone cannot find a job within a couple months then they are doing something wrong in the interview.

Did you know that only 3% of the entire workforce makes min. wage? It is such a small slice of the workforce. If they have been making min. wage for an extended period without a raise maybe they aren't working hard enough to get a raise. Maybe the worker is the problem sometimes.

Usually when people work hard and do a good job they get raises.

William Ashley · February 17, 2011

Where did you get that?

C$1.00 = US$1.01 Not Australian.

1 Canadian dollar = 1.01179518 Australian dollars

Smallc · February 17, 2011

Where did you get that?

C$1.00 = US$1.01 Not Australian.

The currency converter I have.

Jack Weber · February 17, 2011

Not really. Anyone can agree to work more hours than the typical 40. Regardless, I don't see the need to make any changes. Despite your claim to know what's best for all businesses, industry, and their employees.

On a side note, I think you'd make a great dictator. So far you're all about telling people what kind and type of news they should watch. You're all about telling what type of health care people should have access to. And now you're all about telling businesses and their employees how many hours they should work. I think we have ourselves a forum Mussolini! Ever heard of liberty and freedom? Try and respect is once in a while. :angry:

The Professor talks of "liberty and freedom" in one breath,and then in another,wants business to decide for itself what hours of work for it's employees...

Kinda like "sign this piece of paper so we can force ytou to work 60 hours a week,and if you don't,consider yourself run off!"?...That type of "agreement"?

I suppose business should have the most input in writing the Ontario Labour Relations Act and the Ontario Occupational Health and Safety Act ,as well?

What's next??

RTW legislation?

Edited February 17, 2011 by Jack Weber

Mr.Canada · February 17, 2011

The Professor talks of "liberty and freedom" in one breath,and then in another,wants business to decide for itself what hours of work for it's employees...

Kinda like "sign this piece of paper so we can force ytou to work 60 hours a week,and if you don't,consider yourself run off!"?...That type of "agreement"?

I suppose business should have the most input in writing the Ontario Labour Relations Act and the Ontario Occupational Health and Safety Act ,as well?

What's next??

RTW legislation?

This isn't a police state, yet. If they don't like the job they can go work someplace else. They aren't forced to work at any one place. If they don't like the extended hours policy they are free to go look for a new job.

Jack Weber · February 17, 2011

This isn't a police state, yet. If they don't like the job they can go work someplace else. They aren't forced to work at any one place. If they don't like the extended hours policy they are free to go look for a new job.

The (coerced) 60 hour work week came into effect under the Harris gov't during the 2nd mandate.The "reason" that was given was that small business,and other retailers, needed the exemption to get work done around the Christmas holidays...In otherwords,temporary....

I know of several places in Hamilton,not small business or retailers,that force a new employee to sign a piece of paper essentially saying that they have no choice but to work a 60 hour work week if asked...

The fact of that matter is that the hours of work are 10 hours a day for 6 days...Sign the paper or take a walk...

Your attitude is that of the quintessential regressive free marketeer,as it relates to labour....

No wonder our standard of living is falling....

Mr.Canada · February 17, 2011

The (coerced) 60 hour work week came into effect under the Harris gov't during the 2nd mandate.The "reason" that was given was that small business,and other retailers, needed the exemption to get work done around the Christmas holidays...In otherwords,temporary....

I know of several places in Hamilton,not small business or retailers,that force a new employee to sign a piece of paper essentially saying that they have no choice but to work a 60 hour work week if asked...

The fact of that matter is that the hours of work are 10 hours a day for 6 days...Sign the paper or take a walk...

Your attitude is that of the quintessential regressive free marketeer,as it relates to labour....

No wonder our standard of living is falling....

Like I said. If they don't like to work 60 hours a week then they can look for a new job. They're free to do that in Canada. I don't see a problem with that.

Perhaps your standard of living is falling mine is only getting better and better. I didn't think the cost of living would be very high in Beamsville. I guess I was wrong.

Jack Weber · February 17, 2011

Like I said. If they don't like to work 60 hours a week then they can look for a new job. They're free to do that in Canada. I don't see a problem with that.

Perhaps your standard of living is falling mine is only getting better and better. I didn't think the cost of living would be very high in Beamsville. I guess I was wrong.

My standard of living is as irrelevant as the standard of living in Beamsville,or you personal standard of living in Halton Hills...

I love how you think there are great job opportunities all over Ontario...If you had a clue,instead of thinking only about your own personal situation at the moment,you would realize that wages and benefit plans are being surpressed in this province,not only by the recent recession but by the actions on non uniomn employers (like the ones I mentioned) AND unionized employers (like US Steel in Hamilton)..

A quick parousal of the Service Canada Job Bank for Ontario might give a good idea of this situation.In the trades,in particular,most jobs are temp service,low wage,short term,and,no benefits.Very few are direct hire...This is where the 'working poor' or "underemployed" phraseology comes into play.Just because there are jobs out there,does'nt necessarily mean they are jobs that would allow one to be "gainfully employed"...The idea is that one could improve one's lot in life,not just merely survive.

This is where the standard of living issue comes into play because when mass amounts of the population has to take a job for alot less money and alot less security,by definition,the standard of living of that jurisdiction must fall.It's got very little to do with your flippant "go find another job" free market drivel...Because it is'nt going to matter if the next job they find ends up being identical or similar.That person,or people,will end up in the same economic strata.

charter.rights · February 17, 2011

My standard of living is as irrelevant as the standard of living in Beamsville,or you personal standard of living in Halton Hills...

I love how you think there are great job opportunities all over Ontario...If you had a clue,instead of thinking only about your own personal situation at the moment,you would realize that wages and benefit plans are being surpressed in this province,not only by the recent recession but by the actions on non uniomn employers (like the ones I mentioned) AND unionized employers (like US Steel in Hamilton)..

A quick parousal of the Service Canada Job Bank for Ontario might give a good idea of this situation.In the trades,in particular,most jobs are temp service,low wage,short term,and,no benefits.Very few are direct hire...This is where the 'working poor' or "underemployed" phraseology comes into play.Just because there are jobs out there,does'nt necessarily mean they are jobs that would allow one to be "gainfully employed"...The idea is that one could improve one's lot in life,not just merely survive.

This is where the standard of living issue comes into play because when mass amounts of the population has to take a job for alot less money and alot less security,by definition,the standard of living of that jurisdiction must fall.It's got very little to do with your flippant "go find another job" free market drivel...Because it is'nt going to matter if the next job they find ends up being identical or similar.That person,or people,will end up in the same economic strata.

He won't get you because he doesn't have a job. Rather he spends his time cruising the net late night in the basement with the lights out. He's living off the charity of others.

Shady · February 17, 2011

I know of several places in Hamilton,not small business or retailers,that force a new employee to sign a piece of paper essentially saying that they have no choice but to work a 60 hour work week if asked...

That's against the law. Why haven't you reported that practice to authorities? And frankly, businesses don't like, or get good results forcing people to work 60 hour weeks. Their work suffers as a result, and effects the business in a negative way. Businesses would much rather hire two workers at 30 hours a week, than one at 60.

The fact of that matter is that the hours of work are 10 hours a day for 6 days...Sign the paper or take a walk...

Complete nonsense.

No wonder our standard of living is falling....

Maybe yours personally. But ours as a whole, isn't falling.

Mr.Canada · February 17, 2011

This is where the standard of living issue comes into play because when mass amounts of the population has to take a job for alot less money and alot less security,by definition,the standard of living of that jurisdiction must fall.It's got very little to do with your flippant "go find another job" free market drivel...Because it is'nt going to matter if the next job they find ends up being identical or similar.That person,or people,will end up in the same economic strata.

Job security is long gone, people no longer stay at the same job for life anymore. Those days are long gone, hardly the fault of PM Harper.

There are many jobs out there. Many places are hiring at good wages. If people lack the skills well then they should go get the skills that are in demand and stop moaning about it.

If people cannot get raises then perhaps they are the problem and not the job in question.