Prepare For War With Israel

[scribblet]

Should we be surprised - nope !! As much as we would like to see Egypt evolve into a democracy, the status quo would have to better than what the Muslim Brotherhood has to offer.

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=206130

A leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt told the Arabic-language Iranian news network Al-Alam on Monday that he would like to see the Egyptian people prepare for war against Israel, according to the Hebrew-language business newspaper Calcalist.

Muhammad Ghannem reportedly told Al- Alam that the Suez Canal should be closed immediately, and that the flow of gas from Egypt to Israel should cease “in order to bring about the downfall of the Mubarak regime.” He added that “the people should be prepared for war against Israel,” saying the world should understand that “the Egyptian people are prepared for anything to get rid of this regime.”

[Michael Hardner]

Democracy !

[scribblet]

An Islamist theocracy with declared intentions of war with Israel, is not a democracy.

[Wild Bill]

Should we be surprised - nope !! As much as we would like to see Egypt evolve into a democracy, the status quo would have to better than what the Muslim Brotherhood has to offer.

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=206130

The logic of the Muslim Brotherhood seems kinda loopy to me, Scrib. They want to close the Suez Canal and cut off gas to Israel, in order to get rid of Mubarak?

Seems to me that they're not talking about making war on Israel. They're talking about making war on the rest of the world! Israel is not the only country that uses the Canal, after all. As far as I know, Mubarak is not in Israel or dependent on that gas. And there are a lot of countries, some even Arab, that don't want to trigger a war.

The only way their logic makes sense is if they want to create a situation that might benefit THEMSELVES, by giving them a chance at taking power!

Edited February 1, 2011 by Wild Bill

[Michael Hardner]

An Islamist theocracy with declared intentions of war with Israel, is not a democracy.

That's not clear, though. What is clear that a democratic mandate for war will result in war. That's democracy.

[scribblet]

He added that “the people should be prepared for war against Israel,” - all part of the usual Islamist aim I suppose, but sure the Brotherhood wants power, they are waiting for the chance. They are anti west and anti Israel, I believe they care more about those beliefs than really helping Egyptians.

The status quo isn't the best option but it's better than an Islamist theocracy, better to support M. now to keep stability, with the caveat that there has to be democratic reform. IMO the U.S. has a chance here to help stabilize the situation.

[bush_cheney2004]

...The status quo isn't the best option but it's better than an Islamist theocracy, better to support M. now to keep stability, with the caveat that there has to be democratic reform. IMO the U.S. has a chance here to help stabilize the situation.

Wouldn't be the first time the USA has done so.

[Shwa]

He added that “the people should be prepared for war against Israel,” - all part of the usual Islamist aim I suppose, but sure the Brotherhood wants power, they are waiting for the chance. They are anti west and anti Israel, I believe they care more about those beliefs than really helping Egyptians.

The status quo isn't the best option but it's better than an Islamist theocracy, better to support M. now to keep stability, with the caveat that there has to be democratic reform. IMO the U.S. has a chance here to help stabilize the situation.

But if the people of Egypt elect them in free and democratic elections, then so be it right? If the people of Egypt elect to go to war, then they'll get what they asked for.

Whether they want power for themselves (and really, its politics after all) the people have shown how far they are willing to go to get what they want...

[pinko]

He added that “the people should be prepared for war against Israel,” - all part of the usual Islamist aim I suppose, but sure the Brotherhood wants power, they are waiting for the chance. They are anti west and anti Israel, I believe they care more about those beliefs than really helping Egyptians.

The status quo isn't the best option but it's better than an Islamist theocracy, better to support M. now to keep stability, with the caveat that there has to be democratic reform. IMO the U.S. has a chance here to help stabilize the situation.

It is unclear to me why you fear the aspiration of a political entity wanting to gain power. If the elections are free and fair who are you to challenge the result if the people of Egypt choose the Mulsim Brotherhood as representative of their views. That is how democracy works.

Edited February 1, 2011 by pinko

[GostHacked]

It is unclear to me why you fear the aspiration of a political entity wanting to gain power. If the elections are free and fair who are you to challenge the result if the people of Egypt choose the Mulsim Brotherhood as representative of their views. That is how democracy works.

You'd want to educate on what the Muslim Brotherhood really is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri

Al-Zawarhiri came up the ranks in the Brotherhood, which spawned Al-Queda and Osama Bin Laden.

[pinko]

You'd want to educate on what the Muslim Brotherhood really is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri

Al-Zawarhiri came up the ranks in the Brotherhood, which spawned Al-Queda and Osama Bin Laden.

I am well aware of some of the literature on the Brotherhood. I have noticed that some folks tend to demonize those with different views to buttress a given position. The position you adopt seems to fit that profile.

[Bitsy]

I can find no substantiation of the words contributed to Muhammad Ghannem and further, the key words to me are

“reportedly told” in the second paragraph.

If the US interferes with the will of the Egyptian people, we will have made a mockery of the word ‘democracy’.

[wyly]

You'd want to educate on what the Muslim Brotherhood really is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri

Al-Zawarhiri came up the ranks in the Brotherhood, which spawned Al-Queda and Osama Bin Laden.

and adolf hitler was an alter boy in the catholic church so what's your point...

[bush_cheney2004]

...If the US interferes with the will of the Egyptian people, we will have made a mockery of the word ‘democracy’.

If the will of the Egyptian people interferes with US interests, the word "democracy" won't matter.

[wyly]

I can find no substantiation of the words contributed to Muhammad Ghannem and further, the key words to me are

“reportedly told” in the second paragraph.

If the US interferes with the will of the Egyptian people, we will have made a mockery of the word ‘democracy’.

I can understand some of the protestors are taking an anti-american view...they see the US not coming out and calling for Mubarak to step aside as supporting Mubarak and denying them their democracy for american gain...

which is a common feeling in many countries, the US sponsoring coups and propping up dictators to protect american interests at the expense of the local population...

[bush_cheney2004]

I can understand some of the protestors are taking an anti-american view...they see the US not coming out and calling for Mubarak to step aside as supporting Mubarak and denying them their democracy for american gain...

What they can't see are the back channel communications and negotiations.

which is a common feeling in many countries, the US sponsoring coups and propping up dictators to protect american interests at the expense of the local population...

Yea....no other nation would do that!

[GostHacked]

and adolf hitler was an alter boy in the catholic church so what's your point...

Wow it's like right there in front of you and you can't see it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Wow it's like right there in front of you and you can't see it.

Godwin's Law?

[dre]

You'd want to educate on what the Muslim Brotherhood really is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri

Al-Zawarhiri came up the ranks in the Brotherhood, which spawned Al-Queda and Osama Bin Laden.

I did some reading on this and its not entirely clear. This organization has changed a fair bit, and for quite some time has had a platform of non-violent reform. They reject anti-western ideology, condemned the attacks on 911, etc. Also once AlQeada was fully formed they openly opposed and denounced the brotherhood and its message.

[wyly]

Wow it's like right there in front of you and you can't see it.

because there's nothing to see...you're making imaginary connections and conclusions...

being a member of the catholic church no more makes all catholics genocidal maniacs than does belonging to a muslim group make every member of the organization terrorists because some of the members did so......

Edited February 1, 2011 by wyly

[Michael Hardner]

I did some reading on this and its not entirely clear. This organization has changed a fair bit, and for quite some time has had a platform of non-violent reform. They reject anti-western ideology, condemned the attacks on 911, etc. Also once AlQeada was fully formed they openly opposed and denounced the brotherhood and its message.

This is indeed a nightmare, then. A moderate Islamic group with popular support. How will they rally the west against them ?

I suppose that they can overstate the impact of some fringe minority members within the party, and spread their statements all over the mediasphere. Yes, that will do.

[WIP]

Should we be surprised - nope !! As much as we would like to see Egypt evolve into a democracy, the status quo would have to better than what the Muslim Brotherhood has to offer.

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=206130

Really! How much concern did you have for Egypt "evolving" into a democracy over the last 35 or so years of it being turned into an American client dictatorship? This is the problem of running foreign policy by the dictum of what's best for Israel. The Wikileaks revelations related to Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia, and other Arab dictatorships have shone a little light on how much America cares about encouraging democracy elsewhere.

In Egypt's case, there's no damn way that the U.S. wanted democracy there, because the Mubarak Regime could be counted on to back U.S. and Israeli policy goals in the region, like the Gaza Blockade for example; or Egypt being on the shortlist of client states that allowed secret renditions, where prisoners could be taken to be illegally tortured....you can't get a real democratic country to go along with these kind of policies! That's why, for decades, American foreign policy strategists have focused on the policy of encouraging strongmen who play ball, and many times helping them repress and put down democratic movements within their countries. If the Obama Administration is smart enough to cut bait, and let Mubarak fall, then that would prove they've at least learned to let go of their lackeys when it's a hopeless cause.

I'm not sure if anyone still remembers the events of the time, but when the Shah of Iran was facing growing unrest for more than a decade, Jimmy Carter kept trying to prop up the Shah and keep him in power. When the end was near, they tried to engineer a phony reform government led by one Shapour Baktiar.....who lasted all of about 5 seconds, and if anything, convinced the mobs their only option was to rally behind Khomeini's movement, since Baktiar had until then, been part of the opposition coalition. Similar treachery in Egypt would likely be the road to an Islamic theocracy led by the Muslim Brotherhood.

[bud]

An Islamist theocracy with declared intentions of war with Israel, is not a democracy.

they're no more dangerous and fanatic than the zionist regime.

anyone who follows the region and is honest about it can easily admit which country is the aggressor.

[GostHacked]

they're no more dangerous and fanatic than the zionist regime.

anyone who follows the region and is honest about it can easily admit which country is the aggressor.

The other difference is the Zionists are in power, the Brotherhood is not.

[Rue]

The logic of the Muslim Brotherhood seems kinda loopy to me, Scrib.

Wild Bill greetings. The Muslim Brotherhood has quite the history.

It was created and was first propped and sponsored by the Nazis. Then after WW2 Britain tried to use it to prevent Israel from becoming a state, then it was put underground by Nasser in the 1950's after it tried to kill him and was resurrected again as a prop of the CIA.

It had no problem getting into bed with Western intelligence agencies or the Nazis when it suited its needs. Its original leaders were pro Nazi facists sharing the same hatred of Jews and moderates make no mistake.

It believes in Sharia law and one Muslim theocracy of all Muslim nations under Sharia law. It sees a world of all of Africa, Asia, Indonesia, as one Muslim Caliphate empire.

It subscribes to fundamentalist Islam. This means it believes in dhimmitude, i.e., anyone who is a Muslim can not enjoy the same state rights as a Muslim. It wants Israel dismantled and all Israelis killed or expelled and believes in violence to achieve this goal and thus supports and finances Hamas, Hezbollah and hundreds of terror cells in Algeria, Tunisia, egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Yemen and Saudi Arabia to name but a few Muslim countries.

The Muslim Brotherhood is first and foremost an umbrella network of fundamentalist Muslims who see reclaiming the East under the umbrella of fundamentalist Muslim theocracy and a government structure identical to the one you see in Iran.

It believes Westernized Arab women should be put back into head gear and back into a subservient role and has all the anti-democractic beliefs you would expect a totalitarian facist belief system to have.

Because it is essentially facist, it was seen as a stooge by the CIA to fight the communist Russians in Afghanistan and it of course turned on the CIA as it did Nasser, Britain and anyone else who tried to use it.

Anyone who says it is moderate is a joker. All you have to do is go on the internet and read its statements, positions and religious beliefs and history.

The

Ridiculous to suggest it is anything then what it is.

It is also powerful. Its network is found in all Muslim countries, and it has active cells in the US, Europe, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela.

The Egyptian Military is no fan of it but fears its extensive power network and there is good reason to believe as it did in Turkey it has infiltrated the military.

The Muslim Brotherhood in Syria and the one in Egypt while they share the common enemy of Israel are otherwise enemies. The current Syrian Muslim Brotherhood is at odds with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and both brotherhoods are at odds with the Syrian government and experience friction with Iran and its proxy Hezbollah.

Hamas which is a Muslim Brotherhood creation and stooge is split in two factions, one controlled by Egypt the other by Syria. The Syrian one currently dominates in Gaza.

The Muslim Brotherhood in Sudan runs the country.

The Muslim Brotherhood make no mistake is intolerant of Christians, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Assyrians, Berbers, Kurds, Druze, homosexuals, communists, trade unionists of any kind, feminists, Westernized Arabs, liberal and progressive Muslims as well as Israelis and Jews.

It sees Europe and the US and all Westerners as the enemy.

To try portray it as otherwise is a joke.

Politically it is the best organized and most powerful opposition party in Egypt but its popularity has always hovered only about at 30% of the Egyptian population, without about 28% pro Mubarak and the rest really not affilited with one particular party or another but anti Mubarak.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Rue