pinko Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) Nicely said... You've outlined the downfall of "Empire America"... When you ship your jobs overseas and replace them with low paying service sector jobs,all the while trying to fund an aging population,you have a recipe for financial and economic disaster. China and India have been the primary beneficiaries of such a policy and both will continue to prosper while the USA stagnates. Canada and Germany are doing reasonably well of the countries in the so called first world economies. The one thing this current situation highlights for the rest of the world is how dysfunctional the American system actually is. Edited July 16, 2011 by pinko Quote
Guest American Woman Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 China and India have been the primary beneficiaries of such a policy and both will continue to prosper while the USA stagnates. Canada and Germany are doing reasonably well of the countries in the so called first world economies. The one thing this current situation highlights for the rest of the world is how dysfunctional the American system actually is. This observation doesn't make you come across as particularly knowledgeable. Quote
pinko Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 This observation doesn't make you come across as particularly knowledgeable. How so? Quote
pinko Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/business/a-manufactured-american-crisis-125680198.html Quote
maple_leafs182 Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 In simple terms, the US economy has a severe cold. Many Americans are deleveraging, paying down their debts. They are holding safe financial paper rather than spending it or holding the riskier sort. The collapse of the housing bubble burned a few Americans and put the fear of the Lord into many others. Whatever Obama does or doesn't do, the US will survive this bad cold but it would be foolish to make things worse by cutting veins, or taking walks in the fresh air. Rather, the government and the Fed should make up the shortfall - for awhile. America will survive but they will have to suffer greatly, the only question is when. They can either admit they are bankrupt and allow the correction to occur or continue to stimulate the economy which will only temporarily delay the inevitable. Going into more debt will not solve the governments problem of being in too much debt. Quote │ _______ [███STOP███]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ :::::::--------------Conservatives beleive ▄▅█FUNDING THIS█▅▄▃▂- - - - - --- -- -- -- -------- Liberals lie I██████████████████] ...◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙'(='.'=)' ⊙
maple_leafs182 Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Spot on... The climate change canard is bad enough... The "Free Market will save us all" canard is the biggest fraud perpetrated on modern society since someone said Marxism was a good idea... There hasn't really been a free market for about 100 years. Also, Karl Marx didn't agree with many Marxist movement. What people did in his name is on them, not Marx. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the free market will save us all but if one existed it would generate a more egalitarian economy which I think would benefit us. Quote │ _______ [███STOP███]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ :::::::--------------Conservatives beleive ▄▅█FUNDING THIS█▅▄▃▂- - - - - --- -- -- -- -------- Liberals lie I██████████████████] ...◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙'(='.'=)' ⊙
punked Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 America will survive but they will have to suffer greatly, the only question is when. They can either admit they are bankrupt and allow the correction to occur or continue to stimulate the economy which will only temporarily delay the inevitable. Going into more debt will not solve the governments problem of being in too much debt. Yah no this is a false choice and not the choice America has to make right now. You are setting up an argument so you can win it but it isn't the reality of the situation right now. Quote
Scotty Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 I have benefited greatly from government, but also recognize its unsustainable growth. A correction is in order, and far from being painful, it will be a return to that which is sustainable...isn't that a popular notion these days? Isn't your government just about the smallest, in terms of what it does, the services it provides, its intrusiveness in the daily lives of citizens in the western world? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
punked Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 I was scared that Shady truly does represent the Crazy right wing opinion, and according to this Fox news poll he does. http://i.imgur.com/p8ysL.png Wow come Aug 4th when the US can't pay the 100 billion in T Bills that are due and defaults say hello to a new depression and Canada will feel the effects. 70% of our export goes right to the US when they stop paying bills, firing people, and credit markets dry expect the worse here. All because people don't understand how the treasury works. Quote
Scotty Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 How about instead: The Department of Energy, which actually produces no energy, take a break for a while? Sure. No reason the oil industry can't be allowed to go about its business entirely free of government regulation. Why, what could happen? It's not like they're going to engage in any unsafe practices which might result in massive explosions and oil or pipelines spills which destroy the environment and other industries - and kill people. They're far too responsible for that. Didn't we already see how great an economic benefit was to be derived by not leaving the financial industry to its own devices and not enforcing any of those nasty old regulations? The Department of Education, which actually doesn't educate anyone, take a break for a while? Because we all know the only people who deserve a university education are those whose parents can afford tens of thousands to fund one. University, heck, why bother trying to educate poor people at all. Waste of time funding all those promise schools, or all those people with disabilities. Why fund black colleges, or those for the blind or hearing impaired? All those grants to states for second language and special education and such are just money down the toilet. The Advisory Council on Historic Preservation take a break for a while? Phhaw. Who needs to know anything about history anyway? Why not just sell the Lincoln Memorial, the Washington Monument, and all those silly museums and parks. That stuff doesn't contribute to industry at all! The Department of Agriculture, which doesn't actually produce any food, take a break for a while? Don't need anyone monitor food quality. Industry can be trusted to make sure no sick animals or bad food gets into the stores. And if people die, well, hell, America has a lot of people anyway. It can afford to lose some. The Department of Immigration and Naturalization, take a break for a while? God knows it would certainly make life easier for all those illegals who are, one and all, just trying to work for a living. They don't need those immigration people hassling them! How about the billions being spent on Obama's unconstitutional mission in Libya be stopped for a while? Sure. Surrender. Tell the world America is leaving because it can't afford to support its military any more. Then hold a garage sale to get rid of all those expensive jets and ships. I'm sure that won't cause any undue humiliation to America. And hey, the Chinese and Russians can probably offer decent prices on those Aircraft Carriers. How about NPR, and PBS, and ACORN stop getting funding for a while?How about Federal workers getting furloughed for a while? Because the "dem guberment" doesn't do anything that needs doing anyway. It's not like anyone would be hurt by the abrupt cessation of all those programs, grants, monitoring, regulations or whatever. It's not like the states, cities, police departments, etc. need to be funded, or that anyone needs to watch and approve that funding. Department of health? Phshaw! If you're not healthy, just die and decrease the surplus population! And who needs those disease control and monitoring centers anyway! Disease is Gods way of telling you he wants you in heaven! There's countless billions of dollars that could be saved without having to touch anything regarding social security, medicare, medicaid, veteran's/military pay, or law enforcement. But that doesn't fearmonger well. So punked, just like the fearmonger-in-chief has to resort to lies and distortions. Like, you could stop the billions in agricultural, mining and industrial subsidies? Sell off half the fleet and half the air force and start laying off military people? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 ...Wow come Aug 4th when the US can't pay the 100 billion in T Bills that are due and defaults say hello to a new depression and Canada will feel the effects. 70% of our export goes right to the US when they stop paying bills, firing people, and credit markets dry expect the worse here. All because people don't understand how the treasury works. Canada feels the effects no matter what...the Americans are not going to raise the debt ceiling just to keep Canada comfortable. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shady Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Sadly, Democrats have now resorted to the race card in the debt-ceiling negotiaties. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Canada feels the effects no matter what...the Americans are not going to raise the debt ceiling just to keep Canada comfortable. They will raise it to keep a few very influential and rich people in a state of comfort...kind of like the will the old guy leaves and mentions his surviving widow..."To Lois I leave ten million dollars so she can live in the state that she is accustonmed too"> This problem amounts to a supper upper class that has formed in the last hundred years - that was really quite cheap with the average person. This is a global phenomena - You can not take all the world money and stick it in the pockets of one tenth of 1% of the people and expect things to keep functioning forever! Not talking about a socicalist agenda here but a common thing like saying to Jimmy how was playing marbles...and now has all of them - and is wondering why he can't find another marble game to play - seeing no one can participate - So we tell Congress - "Jimmy - you are going to have to learn to share" Quote
Oleg Bach Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 This will be about a wise re-distribution of wealth - carefully done so as not to create some commie hell later. Not saying that a person has to give up all his wealth - but if a guy has 100 million dollars - I am sure he will do well with 50 million dollars - If he can't then he is crazy and should be forced into being a bankrupt...because they have lost sight of being part of the human family. Either cough up the cash and maintain the status quo - or utterly destroy the status quo - it's there choice. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 The impass here is base on individual human identity and self esteem - Some men are part and parcell of the sum of their wealth - The impass is that those people can not bare to part with what they see as total power and domination..but by stubbornly holding on to this insecurity - the will lose everything..time for the rich to be brave and have faith in themselves rather than faith in the fact that their lessors will continiue to carry them about on their backs. If the rich are capable of generating wealth rather than live on wealth generated two generations ago - then they should have the conficence and force of will to stay rich - Seems that the rich that are most worried about the up comming changes might not deserve or be fit for their present positons - lets see what happens -----------pass the pop corn this will be a hell of a show. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 This is a natural economic revolution taking place - it had to come eventually - This is nature at work. Quote
punked Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Sadly, Democrats have now resorted to the race card in the debt-ceiling negotiaties. No one needs to play the race card when we are talking about Hundreds of thousands of jobs being lost on Aug 3rd. You know because the Republicans were elected to kills Jobs. Don't worry though they spent the last week saving the light bulb. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 No one needs to play the race card when we are talking about Hundreds of thousands of jobs being lost on Aug 3rd. You know because the Republicans were elected to kills Jobs. Don't worry though they spent the last week saving the light bulb. Not going to happen...for those of you playing along in Canada, please review the rules of the game. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Not going to happen...for those of you playing along in Canada, please review the rules of the game. We can hope. I mean as the debt ceiling gets closer people are actually learning more and more about so by Aug 1st maybe tea party congressmen will understand they are about to kill the American economy by doing nothing. One can hope. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 We can hope. I mean as the debt ceiling gets closer people are actually learning more and more about so by Aug 1st maybe tea party congressmen will understand they are about to kill the American economy by doing nothing. One can hope. No...it's not about "hope" at all. Save that crap for the next Obama election campaign. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 No...it's not about "hope" at all. Save that crap for the next Obama election campaign. Nothing but substance from your posts always right? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) Nothing but substance from your posts always right? Lots of substance compared to Winnipeg Wannabes! Edited July 16, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shady Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Lots of substance compared to Winnipeg Wannabes! Exactly. Maybe Manitoba should increase its debt. Yeah, I think it should. I they should increase their debt by a large margin. Quote
blueblood Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 No...it's not about "hope" at all. Save that crap for the next Obama election campaign. We're already hearing his re-election campaign, "those oil execs and jet owners need to pay their 'fair share'". Normally I would disagree with obama about the need to increase revenues, but this is the mother of all deficits. However, he is looking for revenues in the wrong spot. He needs to look at what mulroney, paul martin, and preston manning did up here, the gst, massive spending cuts, and most importantly keeping them going in the long term. There is a price though, whoever votes for that will be punted from office/congress. Unfortunately, using rich people as a punching bag is proving popular with the public and is the only card the dems have in this situation. Even though those rich people spend money, invest, and provide jobs. What's even worse is that this will be the first of many negotiations, the boomers are going to have to realize that there isn't enough money to pay them for doing nothing in their long retirement with their many trips to the hospital. Obama reminds me of someone who has racked up the credit card and wants to go ask the boss for a raise when sales for the company are down, yet still wants to go on a family vacation. One day people will realize that you can't pay people to do nothing even though its cruel to those that can't help it. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Oleg Bach Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 We can hope. I mean as the debt ceiling gets closer people are actually learning more and more about so by Aug 1st maybe tea party congressmen will understand they are about to kill the American economy by doing nothing. One can hope. He who hesitates is lost. They seem to lack faith in themselves. Quote
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