The crisis in Egypt

[pinko]

I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about Canada and its relationship with the U.S. You think you haven't benefited from our actions? Of course you have, which is why so many say if the U.S.'s economy goes down it will have a great affect Canada/the world. Canada being a close ally/huge trading partner with the U.S. has benefited from our economic status. Willingly. Happily. As y'all criticize the actions that got us where we are.

Furthermore, Canada has sold us what we need to do what we have done; Canada has been behind us in Iraq, albeit silently so you can carry on about how much better you are, and that's for Canada's benefit -- as we are criticized by the Canadians who are more than happy with their lifestyles as they benefit from that alliance.

So many posters here seem to think they know so much about everything, but all of their so-called knowledge boils down to "blame the U.S. for anything/everything bad." There's not even any discussion, really. It's all about the big, bad USA and how it's all our fault. And as I said, nothing good is ever acknowledged. It's all bad.

I seriously can't wait for the day when some other nation is the 'cause' of everything bad. I can't wait until another nation is the butt of everyone's criticism. And it will happen, because heaven forbid people take a good long look in the mirror and actually see their compliance/part in it all. So much easier and more pleasant to believe oneself/one's nation holier-than-thou.

But fyi, I have traveled in Central America, Sub-Saharan Africa, and Indochina (and will soon be heading to South America), and here's the thing: people in those nations generally like Americans. A lot. More than others, in many instances. They point out all the good America/Americans have done. When I criticize my nation, they talk to me about all the good things. They don't blame all the world's ills on us and they appreciate the good that we do/have done.

But do keep at it. I realize a lot of people just can't cope without blaming someone else for everything. It's an easy, good-feeling 'fix,' and makes one feel smug/superior/smart to 'know' the 'cause' of everything.

When I have travelled very little time has been spent discussing the merits of the American way. There is an element of frustration in your post although in stating your position you seem to overlook the fact that your country is currently the primary world power. I am prepared to concede that Canada and the USA have a mutually beneficial realationship and that it isn't my intention to attribute blame solely to your country. As you know China is a rising power thanks, in part, to the integration of a market economy to that of a Communist regime. Much like its partner China is expanding its influence throughout the world including here in Canada.

It should also be noted that Canada has granted your country privileged access to our oil and gas reserves as mandated in the proportionality provisions of NAFTA.

[GWiz]

How is pointing out that Canadians have a favorable opinion of America and Americans pissing on their carpet? Repeatedly exposing you as a deluded clown is not an anti American activity.

Dear Mr./Ms. dre (et al),

Please be kind to Mr. bush_cheney (or BC in short form) as it's become very obvious that this person has some serious mental handicap and a strong ani-Canadian attitude...

Being Canadian we must always be kind to people like Mr. BC who has none of the wonderful advantages we Canadians enjoy like FREEDOM of thought, good health care without having to go into debt and poverty, and a secure retirement... He therefore is left out on the streets on his own with no needed medical attention... After all, even in the United States, anyone calling themselves bush_cheney would ordinarily be apprehended by people in white robes... He must be hiding out in some unknown location to still be on the loose...

We must do what we always do as Canadians and tolerate our mentally handicaped southern neighbours who can't help but feel envious of the wonderful life we enjoy up here in Canada... It's the Canadian thing to do... The Canadian way if you will...

Thank you so much for your understanding...

[Charles Anthony]

Everybody,

Stop the personal attacks.

Discuss the subject of the thread or do not post at all.

Ch. A.

[eyeball]

Self-determination. Do you support the concept wholly or in part?

So if they throw out the autocratic rule and decide to go another route - even if they have free and democratic elections and vote for an Islamist government, do we not applaud them for achieving a measure of self-determination because that is what we want for all oppressed people?

Yes - in for a penny...

[pinko]

Everybody,

Stop the personal attacks.

Discuss the subject of the thread or do not post at all.

Ch. A.

What is your position on this particular issue?

[bush_cheney2004]

Please be kind to Mr. bush_cheney (or BC in short form) as it's become very obvious that this person has some serious mental handicap and a strong ani-Canadian attitude...

No need to be kind...just be honest. If anti-American attitudes are so treasured here, then surely a bit of turnabout for Canada is fair play. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

[jbg]

Please be kind to Mr. bush_cheney (or BC in short form) as it's become very obvious that this person has some serious mental handicap and a strong ani-Canadian attitude...***********

Thank you so much for your understanding...

No need to be kind...just be honest. If anti-American attitudes are so treasured here, then surely a bit of turnabout for Canada is fair play. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

With proper attention some people can be taught to play nicely; others probably can't.

[bush_cheney2004]

With proper attention some people can be taught to play nicely; others probably can't.

Don't confuse can't with won't. Tell the Egyptian protesters to play "nice".

[JB Globe]

Because other "oppressed" nations in the world have been able to cast off such governments. You've earned another DUH!

You can only really come to your conclusion by throwing historical, political, and economic context completely out the window and making the absurd, obviously wrong, and frankly, juvenile assumption that every situation regarding popular uprisings are exactly the same in each country and thus you can compare how "good" they are by the length of time it took to overthrow the government and nothing else.

Question - if you handed in a paper in a political science class using this argument, what kind of mark do you think you would receive back?

And the thing about your metrics is that they cast most uprisings/revolutions as "pathetic" including your own American one - there was resentment towards the British for longer than 30 years (which was your criteria for calling Egyptians pathetic) before they were kicked out. So I guess your founding fathers were pathetic as well, according to your own logic.

Also - channelling Michelle Tanner doesn't add to political debate, usually.

I would first reject any of your disempowering, liberal rhetoric. That's what people like you told "visible minorities" for years. PATHETIC.

It's not rhetoric, it's logic - I thought neocons were creatures of rationality, right? How do you know the lived experience of the other better than the other? That's what you're intrinsically claiming by making the case that the uprising could have easily happened sooner AND overthrew Mubarak, but people chose not to do so.

I mean, in order to make that case, you'd have to know the mindset of the people in Egypt, you'd have to know what it's like to grow up under a dictatorship. And seeing as how you don't read anything from Arab authors unless it confirms your worldview (ie - Wafa Sultan) I don't know how you came by even a sliver of this knowledge of lived-experience.

So really, you just painted a picture of a landscape that you have never seen, and that has never really been described to you beyond a few adjectives. Oh, and you used crayons.

The same way you think you do.

Quote me on where I'm saying anything like that, go ahead - you made the claim, now back it up. Or, do the usual - run away and ignore it because you bit off more than you can chew with false accusations.

For the record - calling you out on calling Egyptians pathetic has nothing to do with claiming to know their reality. I've been to Egypt, I talked with many Egyptians there and in Canada candidly about the situation there long before any of this stuff ever happened, and when they tell me something, I believe it as much as I would it coming from an Italian talking about Italian politics. But here's the thing - everyone across Egypt, from college grads, to shop keepers, to Bedouin tribesmen - all say the same thing about this government.

No.

Not going to explain what you mean by saying you overthrew my government 200 years ago? Just going to leave that nonsensical statement as is?

Finally - are you going to address the fact that while criticizing Egyptians for being pathetic and not overthrowing their dictator sooner, you at the same time support your country funding and backing up that same dictator?

Why do you have more of a problem with the timeframe of the uprisings in Egypt, than you do with supporting a leader that stands against the principles your country was founded on and claims to want to advance globally?

Edited January 31, 2011 by JB Globe

[JB Globe]

For sure. In the UK they already have Sharia Law in place today. Since the UK is about 10 years ahead of Canada in letting in massive waves of Muslim immigration I gave us another 10 years. By then we'll have Sharia law in place in Canada. Is this all too far fetched for you to believe or what? This is reality. Time to wake up and look outside what the CBC tells you.

I love satire.

[Guest American Woman]

When I have travelled very little time has been spent discussing the merits of the American way.

That makes sense since you're not an American, that's why I question non-Americans who tell me how others feel about us. I can't imagine why Americans would be the topic of conversation when they meet foreigners in a foreign land. But I've traveled, so I hear first hand as a lot of people I meet want to talk me about America. In the countries that were mentioned, there are people, who upon learning that I'm an American, want to talk to me, so I always find that enjoyable; and of course I'm open to justifiable criticism, too.

There is an element of frustration in your post although in stating your position you seem to overlook the fact that your country is currently the primary world power.

You're right. I was frustrated when I wrote that. But I'm not overlooking the fact that the U.S. is the primary world power, but that doesn't make everything bad that happens our fault as nothing good that happens is to our credit. Likewise, it doesn't make every other nation out there morally superior and/or non-culpable. Seems as if too often, though, the simple, feel-good solution is to pile it all on us, which does nothing towards making anything better. Anywhere. For anyone.

I am prepared to concede that Canada and the USA have a mutually beneficial realationship and that it isn't my intention to attribute blame solely to your country.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

As you know China is a rising power thanks, in part, to the integration of a market economy to that of a Communist regime. Much like its partner China is expanding its influence throughout the world including here in Canada.

Definitely it is, but like my friend in China said, the situation isn't all that it appears to be. It's difficult to say where their government is ultimately headed, too. There are major changes taking place and it's yet to be seen where they will all lead. Anyway, he hopes to emigrate to Canada next summer so his family can have a better life. He wants his daughter, one of the most beautiful little girls I've ever seen, to have the advantages that we have in North America.

It should also be noted that Canada has granted your country privileged access to our oil and gas reserves as mandated in the proportionality provisions of NAFTA.

I hope you don't think I was cutting Canada down. That sure wasn't my intent. I think we've been very fortunate to be neighbors, which is why I'd hate to see anti-American sentiment sour the good relationship that we've enjoyed through the years. Maybe it is just certain members of this forum, but I'm feeling a level of animosity towards the U.S./Americans that I haven't felt in the past.

[bush_cheney2004]

You can only really come to your conclusion by throwing historical, political, and economic context completely out the window and making the absurd, obviously wrong, and frankly, juvenile assumption that every situation regarding popular uprisings are exactly the same in each country and thus you can compare how "good" they are by the length of time it took to overthrow the government and nothing else.

No...if you were paying attention, I made the remark specifically about Egypt, a modern nation in every respect save for political maturity.

Question - if you handed in a paper in a political science class using this argument, what kind of mark do you think you would receive back?

Non starter...I would be teaching the class.

And the thing about your metrics is that they cast most uprisings/revolutions as "pathetic" including your own American one - there was resentment towards the British for longer than 30 years (which was your criteria for calling Egyptians pathetic) before they were kicked out. So I guess your founding fathers were pathetic as well, according to your own logic.

Yes, but they weren't Americans yet.

Also - channelling Michelle Tanner doesn't add to political debate, usually.

Irrelevant to the topic.

It's not rhetoric, it's logic - I thought neocons were creatures of rationality, right? How do you know the lived experience of the other better than the other? That's what you're intrinsically claiming by making the case that the uprising could have easily happened sooner AND overthrew Mubarak, but people chose not to do so.

It doesn't matter....30 years of autocratic rule says something about their collective political will, or lack thereof. Your kind of elitist superiority is the worse and most despised element of all. Goes nicely with another member who felt that the intelligent protesters actually spoke good English.

I mean, in order to make that case, you'd have to know the mindset of the people in Egypt, you'd have to know what it's like to grow up under a dictatorship. And seeing as how you don't read anything from Arab authors unless it confirms your worldview (ie - Wafa Sultan) I don't know how you came by even a sliver of this knowledge of lived-experience.

...from all the Egyptians who fled to my country and told me so. My "worldview" is just as qualified and valid as yours oh superior one.

So really, you just painted a picture of a landscape that you have never seen, and that has never really been described to you beyond a few adjectives. Oh, and you used crayons.

We'll see how it plays out...with or without crayons.

Quote me on where I'm saying anything like that, go ahead - you made the claim, now back it up. Or, do the usual - run away and ignore it because you bit off more than you can chew with false accusations.

You made the claim....happy?

For the record - calling you out on calling Egyptians pathetic has nothing to do with claiming to know their reality. I've been to Egypt, I talked with many Egyptians there and in Canada candidly about the situation there long before any of this stuff ever happened, and when they tell me something, I believe it as much as I would it coming from an Italian talking about Italian politics. But here's the thing - everyone across Egypt, from college grads, to shop keepers, to Bedouin tribesmen - all say the same thing about this government.

My Egyptians are just and good as your Egyptians, and we have a lot more of them in the USA...as usual.

Not going to explain what you mean by saying you overthrew my government 200 years ago? Just going to leave that nonsensical statement as is?

Yes...God Save the Queen

Finally - are you going to address the fact that while criticizing Egyptians for being pathetic and not overthrowing their dictator sooner, you at the same time support your country funding and backing up that same dictator?

Yes..the two ideas are not mutually exclusive. Try to understand this if you can.

Why do you have more of a problem with the timeframe of the uprisings in Egypt, than you do with supporting a leader that stands against the principles your country was founded on and claims to want to advance globally?

My country wants to advance its own interests....try to get your story straight.

[Rue]

First off and I do not have to say it to Bush because he knows where I stand on the matter, while I disagree with him on democrat v. republican and make no apologies for my kennedy-luther king-obama blatant biases I totally agree that anyone who tries to blame either the US or Israel for what goes on in Tunisia or Egypt is full of it.

The support of the Western allies of Egypt is no different then why China supporrts Iran and Sudan. Countries claiming to be democratic especially the Euro union have propped dictatorships no different than Russia, China, Venezuela, Brazil, Switzerland, etc. There is not a righteous nation in the world.

All nations have relations with others like whores. It is a fact. International relations is all about pursuing own's one financial needs. Always has been, always will be. To single out the U.S. and suggest it is any different then Canada or any other nation in that regard is a crock.

You want to harp about supporting military dictatorships understand this is an inevitable consequence of nations propping people who they think are in their best immediate interests and such alliances change as the wind blows. That is the world of politics. It aint nice but its reality.

There are a lot of blithering two faces in Canada. We like to think we are superior to the Americans and enlightened. Horse crahp.

The crisis in Egypt is no different then any other that have arisen over its troublesome history. For those who live in the snapshot moment they will no doubt disconnect from the fact that Egypt has had a continuing series of violent uprisings.

Yah you can trot out the self-righteous horse crahp, blame the US and Israel, wax poetic over the little guy in Cairo and then move on to the next trendy cause. Yesterday it was Ted Williams the homeless man, the day before that Haitiens, today Egyptians and tomorrow who knows. Oh those Tunisians? How long did they last-5 seconds?

The fact is most of us live far from Egypt and can afford to be smug and righteous in our pronouncements. We don't live next door to it.

From our distance we can portray the men on the street as cute little adorable democrats.. you don't have to fear the dark and them coming to rape your wife and rob you blind.

Bush Chaney will not get a lecture from me nor will American Woman nor will Egyptians or Israelis or anyone else.

As far as I am concerned we all suck and have the same problems to work on.

I can only hope Egyptians find a peaceful solution. I can only dream they find a peaceful way to coexist with themselves and with Israel as Canada does with the U.S.

I have nothing to say to Egyptians but good luck. I have nothing to say to Israelis other then I can understand the fear it is generating and once again we must look into the turbulence and the storms and keep our faith.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Rue

[GostHacked]

It doesn't matter....30 years of autocratic rule says something about their collective political will, or lack thereof. Your kind of elitist superiority is the worse and most despised element of all. Goes nicely with another member who felt that the intelligent protesters actually spoke good English.

You can see on the tele how the VP of the US and other US officials are talking about it. Mubarak is a great leader, Mubarak is our ally , Mubarak must take steps to ensure democratic rule. However, the people want Mubarak gone. The people are speaking and speaking very loud. Who is listening?

My country wants to advance its own interests....try to get your story straight.

Buy continuing to prop up a corrupt dictator. I know you will come back with some smart ass comment about Canada. But that is par for your course.

[pinko]

That makes sense since you're not an American, that's why I question non-Americans who tell me how others feel about us. I can't imagine why Americans would be the topic of conversation when they meet foreigners in a foreign land. But I've traveled, so I hear first hand as a lot of people I meet want to talk me about America. In the countries that were mentioned, there are people, who upon learning that I'm an American, want to talk to me, so I always find that enjoyable; and of course I'm open to justifiable criticism, too.

You're right. I was frustrated when I wrote that. But I'm not overlooking the fact that the U.S. is the primary world power, but that doesn't make everything bad that happens our fault as nothing good that happens is to our credit. Likewise, it doesn't make every other nation out there morally superior and/or non-culpable. Seems as if too often, though, the simple, feel-good solution is to pile it all on us, which does nothing towards making anything better. Anywhere. For anyone.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Definitely it is, but like my friend in China said, the situation isn't all that it appears to be. It's difficult to say where their government is ultimately headed, too. There are major changes taking place and it's yet to be seen where they will all lead. Anyway, he hopes to emigrate to Canada next summer so his family can have a better life. He wants his daughter, one of the most beautiful little girls I've ever seen, to have the advantages that we have in North America.

I hope you don't think I was cutting Canada down. That sure wasn't my intent. I think we've been very fortunate to be neighbors, which is why I'd hate to see anti-American sentiment sour the good relationship that we've enjoyed through the years. Maybe it is just certain members of this forum, but I'm feeling a level of animosity towards the U.S./Americans that I haven't felt in the past.

I don't know you very well but from what I have noticed you are able to articulate a well reasoned position on a variety of issues being discussed. I only used China as an example is it is, for better or for worse, coming of age. Certainly it has many difficulities ahead some of which is related to demographics and some of which has to do with regional pockets of wealth side by side with regions where people live in poverty with no social safety net.

I can say without any reservation I have no animosity towards you as an individual and that you are American is, in my view, not an issue.

JBG and I have posted in other forums and have been on the different side of a number of issues. At times we may have been atagonistic to each other however we have managed over the years to have a certain respect for each other. At least that is how I see it.

Those of you who live in states bordering Canada know that we have much in common. What is the difference between a young man or woman playing hockey on either side of that border other than nationality? Although there is a healthy rivalry I don't see much difference.

[Rue]

I don't know you very well but from what I have noticed you are able to articulate a well reasoned position on a variety of issues being discussed.

Hey I saw American Woman first, back off.

p.s. the only thing we need fear from the US is New York Yankees fans. Trust me they are animals.

[bush_cheney2004]

You can see on the tele how the VP of the US and other US officials are talking about it. Mubarak is a great leader, Mubarak is our ally , Mubarak must take steps to ensure democratic rule. However, the people want Mubarak gone. The people are speaking and speaking very loud. Who is listening?

Mubarak was a great leader for the United States and Canada.

Buy continuing to prop up a corrupt dictator. I know you will come back with some smart ass comment about Canada. But that is par for your course.

Do you think Canada did not also support Mubarak? Are you really that naive?

Edited January 31, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[GWiz]

No need to be kind...just be honest. If anti-American attitudes are so treasured here, then surely a bit of turnabout for Canada is fair play. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

Who's "Anti-American"? It sure as hell ain't me... If anything I love the 50% of Americans that are sane and sensible, like the 25% that are even a little open minded but easily misled, and feel sorry for the rest that are nothing but mindless sheep spouting "the USA ubber alles" Bushey philosophy...

Every one here, I'm quite sure, knows which category YOU fit into... You see that doctor yet?

That honest enough for you?

Now listen to the Moderator, get back on subject without trying to get a rise out of us Crazy Canucks, some of us WILL fight fire with fire so to speak... Some of us might even enjoy taking you down a notch or two...

[JB Globe]

No...if you were paying attention, I made the remark specifically about Egypt, a modern nation in every respect save for political maturity.

Actually, your remark was a defence of your earlier comment that Egyptians were pathetic - your criteria was that since other countries have been able to overthrow regimes in less than 30 years, that means Egyptians were pathetic. Meaning - your inherently claiming that all popular uprisings are the same, regardless of political/historical context.

So my question still stands - let's see how many times I have to repeat it and rephrase it before you stop pretending it doesn't apply, or before you run away from it completely.

Non starter...I would be teaching the class./quote]

Thanks for making every American, Canadian, conservative and liberal who's ever taking a polisci class or read a book on the topic have a good laugh.

Yes, but they weren't Americans yet.

Officially, but many were referring to themselves as such. But that's semantics - by your criteria, your founding fathers were pathetic, because it took them longer than 30 years from when they started having grievances to actually kicking out the British, yes?

Irrelevant to the topic.

I wrote four off-topic words, you just went on a dozen or so posts about Canadian anti-americanism in a thread on Egypt. So who's being more irrelevant?

It doesn't matter....30 years of autocratic rule says something about their collective political will, or lack thereof.

Then I guess all of Eastern Europe (including half of Germany) is pathetic.

If everyone was just more like you, things would be different - the world would be free, wouldn't it?

Your kind of elitist superiority is the worse and most despised element of all. Goes nicely with another member who felt that the intelligent protesters actually spoke good English.

What elitism? Spell it out for me - quote me where I've been elitist. You made the claim, now back it up or runaway from it like you usually do.

...from all the Egyptians who fled to my country and told me so. My "worldview" is just as qualified and valid as yours oh superior one.

Key difference between you and me - I don't listen to Egyptians and then pass judgement on them, second guessing what they're saying and making my own assumptions, as if I know what they're REALLY saying, behind the words. - I literally reiterate what they tell me.

You on the other hand - call them pathetic, that's called passing judgement, and it demonstrates that you think you know better their reality better than they do.

It's kinda gross - these guys are honestly telling you about something that deeply affects them, and you're sitting there thinking "you're a looser, and so is everyone else in your country"

You made the claim....happy?

Yes...God Save the Queen

How long have you been on this Canadian political board? And you think that Canadians identify with the British Empire?

I mean, if you can't even learn something this basic being here for years, what makes you think you have any capacity to learn from the one or two conversations you've had with Egyptians over the years?

Yes..the two ideas are not mutually exclusive. Try to understand this if you can.

Actually, they are.

Your country is the world's most powerful, it's backing a dictator against the will of its own people. More than that, many other countries are following your lead. The fact that it's taken more than 30 years is directly related to the support you yourself advocate for this regime. You are complicit in this oppression, which is why it's hypocritical of you to place blame for the situation solely on the Egyptian public, when you yourself have responsibility.

I mean, the US had France helping it during the revolution - who does Egypt have?

By your logic, it appears your founding fathers are more pathetic than Egyptians - no one is helping them.

My country wants to advance its own interests....try to get your story straight.

You're confusing your ideology with the rest of your countrymen.

Whereas you would have no beef with committing a genocide if it meant another 25 years of American dominance, pretty much every liberal or conservative in your country does.

[bush_cheney2004]

Who's "Anti-American"? It sure as hell ain't me... If anything I love the 50% of Americans that are sane and sensible, like the 25% that are even a little open minded but easily misled, and feel sorry for the rest that are nothing but mindless sheep spouting "the USA ubber alles" Bushey philosophy...

But they are still Americans...hence you are anti-American in that context. I reserve the same right for Canadian "mindless sheep".

Every one here, I'm quite sure, knows which category YOU fit into... You see that doctor yet?

That honest enough for you?

No, but if I ever do, it will be better than what you have access to.

Now listen to the Moderator, get back on subject without trying to get a rise out of us Crazy Canucks, some of us WILL fight fire with fire so to speak... Some of us might even enjoy taking you down a notch or two...

That's fine by me...because I am now the topic according to some on this thread.

[GWiz]

You can only really come to your conclusion by throwing historical, political, and economic context completely out the window and making the absurd, obviously wrong, and frankly, juvenile assumption that every situation regarding popular uprisings are exactly the same in each country and thus you can compare how "good" they are by the length of time it took to overthrow the government and nothing else.

Question - if you handed in a paper in a political science class using this argument, what kind of mark do you think you would receive back?

And the thing about your metrics is that they cast most uprisings/revolutions as "pathetic" including your own American one - there was resentment towards the British for longer than 30 years (which was your criteria for calling Egyptians pathetic) before they were kicked out. So I guess your founding fathers were pathetic as well, according to your own logic.

Also - channelling Michelle Tanner doesn't add to political debate, usually.

It's not rhetoric, it's logic - I thought neocons were creatures of rationality, right? How do you know the lived experience of the other better than the other? That's what you're intrinsically claiming by making the case that the uprising could have easily happened sooner AND overthrew Mubarak, but people chose not to do so.

I mean, in order to make that case, you'd have to know the mindset of the people in Egypt, you'd have to know what it's like to grow up under a dictatorship. And seeing as how you don't read anything from Arab authors unless it confirms your worldview (ie - Wafa Sultan) I don't know how you came by even a sliver of this knowledge of lived-experience.

So really, you just painted a picture of a landscape that you have never seen, and that has never really been described to you beyond a few adjectives. Oh, and you used crayons.

Quote me on where I'm saying anything like that, go ahead - you made the claim, now back it up. Or, do the usual - run away and ignore it because you bit off more than you can chew with false accusations.

For the record - calling you out on calling Egyptians pathetic has nothing to do with claiming to know their reality. I've been to Egypt, I talked with many Egyptians there and in Canada candidly about the situation there long before any of this stuff ever happened, and when they tell me something, I believe it as much as I would it coming from an Italian talking about Italian politics. But here's the thing - everyone across Egypt, from college grads, to shop keepers, to Bedouin tribesmen - all say the same thing about this government.

Not going to explain what you mean by saying you overthrew my government 200 years ago? Just going to leave that nonsensical statement as is?

Finally - are you going to address the fact that while criticizing Egyptians for being pathetic and not overthrowing their dictator sooner, you at the same time support your country funding and backing up that same dictator?

Why do you have more of a problem with the timeframe of the uprisings in Egypt, than you do with supporting a leader that stands against the principles your country was founded on and claims to want to advance globally?

My friend, you're trying to fight an oil fire with water... Won't work... You need some chemical retardant other than water to fight an oil fire... Or you can let it burn itself out... Adding water just makes it spread...

[bush_cheney2004]

Actually, your remark was a defence of your earlier comment that Egyptians were pathetic - your criteria was that since other countries have been able to overthrow regimes in less than 30 years, that means Egyptians were pathetic. Meaning - your inherently claiming that all popular uprisings are the same, regardless of political/historical context.

Nonsense....you are making things up on the fly.

So my question still stands - let's see how many times I have to repeat it and rephrase it before you stop pretending it doesn't apply, or before you run away from it completely.

What was your inane question again?

I wrote four off-topic words, you just went on a dozen or so posts about Canadian anti-americanism in a thread on Egypt. So who's being more irrelevant?

4 > 0

Then I guess all of Eastern Europe (including half of Germany) is pathetic.

If you say so.

If everyone was just more like you, things would be different - the world would be free, wouldn't it?

No, but it would be a lot more interesting.

What elitism? Spell it out for me - quote me where I've been elitist. You made the claim, now back it up or runaway from it like you usually do.

Look....I have made it quite clear that you and your ilk are the worse kind of elitist there is, telling others what they can and can't do because of "oppression". You know damn right well what I mean....stop hiding.

Key difference between you and me - I don't listen to Egyptians and then pass judgement on them, second guessing what they're saying and making my own assumptions, as if I know what they're REALLY saying, behind the words. - I literally reiterate what they tell me.

You pass judgement on Americans and Egyptians!

You on the other hand - call them pathetic, that's called passing judgement, and it demonstrates that you think you know better their reality better than they do.

No, it means I think their reality is/was pathetic. Not complicated at all.

It's kinda gross - these guys are honestly telling you about something that deeply affects them, and you're sitting there thinking "you're a looser, and so is everyone else in your country"

No, I listen carefully to why they left their native country for a better life, the same as the Egyptians working the oil fields in Saudi Arabia.

How long have you been on this Canadian political board? And you think that Canadians identify with the British Empire?

No, just the Queen Bee.

I mean, if you can't even learn something this basic being here for years, what makes you think you have any capacity to learn from the one or two conversations you've had with Egyptians over the years?

I'm not here to learn anything from the likes of you.

Your country is the world's most powerful, it's backing a dictator against the will of its own people. More than that, many other countries are following your lead. The fact that it's taken more than 30 years is directly related to the support you yourself advocate for this regime. You are complicit in this oppression, which is why it's hypocritical of you to place blame for the situation solely on the Egyptian public, when you yourself have responsibility.

Really? So you feel complicit as well? Shame on you for oppressing 80 million Egyptians. My country got to be the most powerful by stepping on lots of nations.

I mean, the US had France helping it during the revolution - who does Egypt have?

Eisenhower

By your logic, it appears your founding fathers are more pathetic than Egyptians - no one is helping them.

The "Founding Fathers" owned my ancestors as slaves...don't preach to me about what is pathetic or oppression.

You're confusing your ideology with the rest of your countrymen.

My country is very diverse...more than yours.

Whereas you would have no beef with committing a genocide if it meant another 25 years of American dominance, pretty much every liberal or conservative in your country does.

This idiotic comment speaks for itself.

Edited January 31, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[GWiz]

Mubarak was a great leader for the United States and Canada.

Did you say WAS? Did he leave? GREAT!

Canada, being Canada, couldn't care less... The people of Canada have the FREEDOM in this country to decide for themselves what they see and do regarding the CURRENT situation in Egypt...

Do you think Canada did not also support Mubarak? Are you really that naive?

I guess I am that naive... I'll anxiously await the EVIDENCE you will surely provide to back up your statement... You wouldn't just be running off at the mouth again with some anti-Canadian rhetoric, now would you?

[bush_cheney2004]

My friend, you're trying to fight an oil fire with water... Won't work... You need some chemical retardant other than water to fight an oil fire... Or you can let it burn itself out... Adding water just makes it spread...

PKP or foam is better than water.

[jbg]

Hey I saw American Woman first, back off.

p.s. the only thing we need fear from the US is New York Yankees fans. Trust me they are animals.

No worse than Blue Jays fans.