UAE - Crybabies

[Moonbox]

I just read this article a few minutes ago and I can only shake my head at these morons. Because Canada wouldn't allow their carrier additional routes for their airlines, the UAE kicked Canada out of its base in the UAE, imposed visa restrictions on Canadians, and is now forcing them to pay $1000 to get a visa to go there?

People are trying to make this out to be a diplomatic boondoggle on the government's part, but the way I see it is that we're not going to get bullied into something by a bunch of crybaby idiots who are going to fuss whenever we won't let them have their way.

I can't wait until we don't need oil anymore. Then these idiots can sit on their sand and eat it.

[dre]

I just read this article a few minutes ago and I can only shake my head at these morons. Because Canada wouldn't allow their carrier additional routes for their airlines, the UAE kicked Canada out of its base in the UAE, imposed visa restrictions on Canadians, and is now forcing them to pay $1000 to get a visa to go there?

People are trying to make this out to be a diplomatic boondoggle on the government's part, but the way I see it is that we're not going to get bullied into something by a bunch of crybaby idiots who are going to fuss whenever we won't let them have their way.

I can't wait until we don't need oil anymore. Then these idiots can sit on their sand and eat it.

I dont wanna visit that dirt-farm anyways, nor do I want to pay for a military base there. Our alliances in the middle east are more trouble than theyre worth anyhow.... fuck em.

I can't wait until we don't need oil anymore. Then these idiots can sit on their sand and eat it.

We're an oil producer/exporter. Let the Americans and Russians and Chinese squabble over middle eastern oil.

Edited December 28, 2010 by dre

[TimG]

People are trying to make this out to be a diplomatic boondoggle on the government's part, but the way I see it is that we're not going to get bullied into something by a bunch of crybaby idiots who are going to fuss whenever we won't let them have their way.

Does anyone have a link to a neutral source that outlines both sides of the dispute? I really don't understand why it is such a big issue. Is UAE refusing to grant Canadian carriers reciprocal access to UAE airports? Is it really nothing more than protecting Air Canada'a turf?

edit: It is appears that Canada is looking for a quid quo pro and UAE can't provide it because most of the business would come from people connecting through Dubai (i.e. Air Canada can't benefit from this business because it has no partner agreements that would allow people to connect to a destination other than Dubai). There is also a concern that the UAE state owned company is subsidized.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/news/2010/10/16/europes-flag-carriers-attack-emirates-expansion-canada-blocks-uae-airlines-and-dispute-escalates/page1

Edited December 28, 2010 by TimG

[Scotty]

Does anyone have a link to a neutral source that outlines both sides of the dispute? I really don't understand why it is such a big issue. Is UAE refusing to grant Canadian carriers reciprocal access to UAE airports? Is it really nothing more than protecting Air Canada'a turf?

edit: It is appears that Canada is looking for a quid quo pro and UAE can't provide it because most of the business would come from people connecting through Dubai (i.e. Air Canada can't benefit from this business because it has no partner agreements that would allow people to connect to a destination other than Dubai). There is also a concern that the UAE state owned company is subsidized.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/news/2010/10/16/europes-flag-carriers-attack-emirates-expansion-canada-blocks-uae-airlines-and-dispute-escalates/page1

That article appears extremely biased, supporting the UAE against all accusations all the way along.

As far as I know the problem from Canada's perspective is that there isn't all that much direct traffic betgween little UAE and Canada. And the current landing slots are more than adequate for that. What the UAE wants is for its carrier to be able to fly people between Toronto and London, say, or Toronto and Paris, not to mention between Toronto and Vancouver, Calgary and Regina. Canada said no, and the government of the UAE, which can basically be described as a group of oil sheiks who can do whatever they want, threw a hissy fit. The UAE airline is a "toy" of one of the major princes there, so he's very unhappy.

[TimG]

What the UAE wants is for its carrier to be able to fly people between Toronto and London, say, or Toronto and Paris

This would require that the London and Paris airports provide additional landing slots to Emerites for flights to Canada. Why would they do this? If the slots are available then why wouldn't other airlines want to use them?

[Smallc]

This would require that the London and Paris airports provide additional landing slots to Emerites for flights to Canada. Why would they do this? If the slots are available then why wouldn't other airlines want to use them?

What Emirates wanted was to route people to central Asia through Dubai rather than London, Paris, and Frankfurt. This was a direct attack by what is basically a government monopoly on Canada's flag carrying private domestic airline. There's no reason to given a foreign government owned company slots at the expense of our own private corporations.

[bush_cheney2004]

....We're an oil producer/exporter. Let the Americans and Russians and Chinese squabble over middle eastern oil.

Not quite...Canada also imports about 900,000 bpd because of distribution efficiencies and lack of refining capacity. Sources include the North Sea, USA, etc.

[Battletoads]

Nevermind they do have oil.

Still, it's not as if Canada is in any desperate need of oil right now.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Battletoads

[William Ashley]

The Conservatives in my opinion were stupid to limit trade and travel between Canada and anywhere. We need more open travel not more limitation on encouraging the industry.

As long as it paid for itself, who cares.

Put in the "travel trust" and a "cost of foreigner" on the systems resources, and whala, no visa, just a deposit.

and a "surcharge" should anything happen while you are in the country.

example person x costs the government $50,000 from an incident that happened in a week. So if 50,000 people visit canada that week only 1$ is charged as a "surcharge" from the security deposit. Person x also forfits their fee up to the maximum of their costs.

"A blacklist system could also be kept for repeated "serious incidences" etc..

Thing is though - why is the UAE raising the costs.. there have been a lot of negative sentiments directed toward the british and canadians and UAE.. maybe they only want business people and the rich to travel there.

Overall it frees up seats on return trips.. plus how many canadian airlines fly there anyway?

[wyly]

I just read this article a few minutes ago and I can only shake my head at these morons. Because Canada wouldn't allow their carrier additional routes for their airlines, the UAE kicked Canada out of its base in the UAE, imposed visa restrictions on Canadians, and is now forcing them to pay $1000 to get a visa to go there?

People are trying to make this out to be a diplomatic boondoggle on the government's part, but the way I see it is that we're not going to get bullied into something by a bunch of crybaby idiots who are going to fuss whenever we won't let them have their way.

I can't wait until we don't need oil anymore. Then these idiots can sit on their sand and eat it.

I don't believe they have much oil and they provided a free access for military for 9 years....we were very unappreciative guests they supplied a critical support in the war in afghanistan...and all because we want to protect a sub par airline that I avoid flying with at all costs, I can only dream of being able to fly with a quality service provided by emirates...

[Smallc]

I don't believe they have much oil and they provided a free access for military for 9 years....we were very unappreciative guests they supplied a critical support in the war in afghanistan...and all because we want to protect a sub par airline that I avoid flying with at all costs, I can only dream of being able to fly with a quality service provided by emirates...

Air Canada is (and has been voted) the best airline in North America. If you've flown it recently, you'd see that there's nothing sub par about it. Why should we sacrifice the profitability of our own private companies (that provide necessary service to many areas of the country) so that a foreign government owned entity can do better at their expense? There is no reason for it. Canada already provides the UAE with investment and private expertise. We don't need to given them unnecessary landing spots too.

[Scotty]

I don't believe they have much oil

They have an immense amount of oil. The sheiks of the UAR are among the wealthiest people on the planet.

and they provided a free access for military for 9 years....

To help protect them. The Taliban and Al Quaeda consider the Emirs of the UAE to be apostates (not without reason) and have made it quite clear every single political leader of the UAE is on their target list.

we were very unappreciative guests they supplied a critical support in the war in afghanistan...

As far as I'm aware they provided an empty piece of sand (the UAE Is almost all empty sand) so we could put down temporary buildings and tents.

, I can only dream of being able to fly with a quality service provided by emirates...

While I would agree Air Canada provides poor service I don't think the answer is to elminate it and replace it with a subsidized Arab airline.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Scotty

[M.Dancer]

Air Canada is (and has been voted) the best airline in North America.

Lucky for Air Canada, the voters aren't necessarily Air Canada passengers.

[Moonbox]

I don't believe they have much oil and they provided a free access for military for 9 years....we were very unappreciative guests they supplied a critical support in the war in afghanistan...and all because we want to protect a sub par airline that I avoid flying with at all costs, I can only dream of being able to fly with a quality service provided by emirates...

They provided support for their own reasons, like Taiwan and Japan provide support for the US. It was in their own best interest. They are throwing a tantrum like a bunch of children and when a dirty goat ranch of a country like the UAE tries to bully around its allies it's completely despicable.

I couldn't feel more contempt for the UAE than I do right now.

[Wilber]

If Emirates takes delivery of all the aircraft they have ordered, they will have 90 A380's (1/4 of all A380 orders) and 101 B777's. They are desperate for places to fly them and Canada isn't the only country they have tried to push around. The Europeans and Aussies aren't too happy with them either.

[Moonbox]

That's interesting to know Wilber I didn't realize that. This is what happens when a bunch of inbred morons get to rule your country.

[Smallc]

Lucky for Air Canada, the voters aren't necessarily Air Canada passengers.

I've never had a problem in the about 15 times I've flown with them. We have a mechanical problem once, but it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't something that doesn't happen on every airline.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Smallc

[M.Dancer]

I've never had a problem in the about 15 times I've flown with them. We have a mechanical problem once, but it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't something that doesn't happen on every airline.

I have flown exclusively with Air Canada...not out of choice...while I have never crashed, the attendants have often made me wish we had...

[Wilber]

Air Canada aside, is it appropriate behavior to impose visa restrictions on a country because it won't cave to your trade demands? I say not and think Canada should tell anyone who does to take a hike for that reason alone.

[William Ashley]

I dont wanna visit that dirt-farm anyways, nor do I want to pay for a military base there. Our alliances in the middle east are more trouble than theyre worth anyhow.... fuck em.

We're an oil producer/exporter. Let the Americans and Russians and Chinese squabble over middle eastern oil.

Canada is also a refined oil product importer.. and geuss where all the refineries are...

Canadians get stuck paying for higher price gas, and other petrol derivitives, this increases domestic production and transport costs, that increases the cost of domestically offered retail that slaps right back at the consumer.

This is why I am an advocate for microrefinery roll out.. especially with oil going over $100/ barrel again, that and a strategic domestic reserve to meet Canada's domestic demand to keep industrial and retail prices low to compete with foreign products that have trade advantages over Canada in terms of refined petrol subsidies and command chain control. this largely refers to US trade advantages on finished product and transport supply chains... however it is not exclusively targetting US industrial base advantages on Canadian trade.

Edited December 29, 2010 by William Ashley

[wyly]

interesting how so much resistance that comes from the free market right when it comes to protecting a protecting a private companies ass...let the best airline win...

[wyly]

I've never had a problem in the about 15 times I've flown with them. We have a mechanical problem once, but it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't something that doesn't happen on every airline.

have you ever flown with any other airlines?...when I flew AC 33 years ago and they were crap and I flew AC 3years ago (only because I had no choice) and they were still crap... Singapore, KLM, Air France, Delta, West Jet, hell anyone but AC please...

[Smallc]

have you ever flown with any other airlines?...when I flew AC 33 years ago and they were crap and I flew AC 3years ago (only because I had no choice) and they were still crap... Singapore, KLM, Air France, Delta, West Jet, hell anyone but AC please...

Westjet is no better than Air Canada. If I wanted to fly at an inconvenient time, wait longer between transfers, and pay just as much, I might pick WestJet. As I've said, I've never had a problem on Air Canada....and Delta? Really? US airlines are voted crap by pretty much every traveler. Asian airlines are different and they have different cost models, so they can do more with less....European airlines (from what I hear) are usually not much if any better.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Smallc

[msj]

Westjet is no better than Air Canada. If I wanted to fly at an inconvenient time, wait longer between transfers, and pay just as much, I might pick WestJet. As I've said, I've never had a problem on Air Canada....and Delta? Really? US airlines are voted crap by pretty much every traveler. Asian airlines are different and they have different cost models, so they can do more with less....European airlines (from what I hear) are usually not much if any better.

I have to mostly agree. In the past 2 years I have experience flying with KLM, AC, WJ, and Alaska.

KLM was decent, AC and WJ are tied for adequate, and Alaska was crap.

What this has to do with this thread, however, is nothing.

Some people (not you Smallc) should check their anti-AC bias at the door on this one.

Oh, and maybe check out what a real government run airline looks like - like the Emirates Airline.

[Moonbox]

Air Canada aside, is it appropriate behavior to impose visa restrictions on a country because it won't cave to your trade demands? I say not and think Canada should tell anyone who does to take a hike for that reason alone.

My thoughts exactly.