does the mainstream left care about rural Canada?

[madmax]

I have met many a Centre Right, Right Wing Urbanite who knows nothing about Rural issues or cares one bit about them.

The people who tend to care about Rural Issues are RURAL Canadians, be they left or right.

The dominance of Urban influence on rural issues is always a threat to rural communities.

What is more important then slandering some left right divide on rural communities is to make sure rural communities still have the power to elect an MLA, MP, MPP who can represent their issues well against the larger Urban voice.

Perhaps the NDP in your area has lost that ability, or the public no longer feel that they do.

I can tell u in Ontario, the Conservatives have nothing short of contempt for Rural communities unless the issue is about their retirement home/cottage which is often in the $500,000 to MULTI MILLION $ paradise. I watch as some urbanites spend 500,000 on landscaping alone. But this hardly reflects the feelings and issues most traditional rural Canadians face.

IIRC Ontario Northern Rural Area is virtually Orange, and on the Federal Scene, I believe the NDP has the biggest mix of Urban and Rural seats which makes for interesting times.

However, I am not one to believe that a political party is better at representing the rural voice better then another.

Only a local strong voice can do that.

In the meantime, here, when I see Jerks like Ritz crap on our Rural community and farmers (glad that clown is gone now), I can tell u that the right has no strangle hold on the rural voice.

If I had to take a guess on a federal MP from the right who likely held a strong voice for the rural pop, It could be Inky Mark. However that local community could answer that better then myself.

When I think of someone on the left representing the Rural Voice, I can easily picture John Rafferty.

Now, if you want to find a Rural voice within the Liberal Party... that is currently something difficult for them to achieve. Someone would have to step up to the plate.

What is important is for rural communities to maintain balance within the electoral system. I always fear one day the ridings may be jerry rigged to silence their voices. The PCs did that in Ontario.

Amalgamation was brutal on rural communitees and sucked the political process away from the people and took the rural resources to the cities.

The Rural communities got the Cities Garbage.

Fair Trade???

[nicky10013]

Quite the opposite Nicky.....Rob Ford proved that there are many urbanites who are fed up with the Champagne Socialists. He's also substantiated the fact that New Canadians are overwhelmingly Conservative (Ford handily won the immigrant vote). So....expect a huge push by the Federal Conservatives to win seats in Toronto. Toronto is where the Liberals will be vulnerable - Ford has raised the Conservative profile - Ignatieff has done nothing....and McGuinty has damaged the Liberal brand even more than Ignatieff's confused leadership.

People weren't voting for Rob Ford. They were voting for the idiot who could scream the loudest about city spending whether it was Conservative, Liberal, NDP or whatever. Ford's sweep was far more about anti-incumbency as it was about party affiliation. Which is a bad thing for the CPC. I wonder who the incumbents are in Ottawa.

Unless there's a drastic change between now and election, there is pretty much a 0% chance the CPC wins a vote within the city.

Edited November 18, 2010 by nicky10013

[nicky10013]

Having policies that people disagree with is not literally giving them the finger. Harper believes his policies will help urban people, it's hard to market a policy different from the Robin Hood policies of the Canadian left which is essentially rob from the rich and give to the poor. That's a marketing nightmare. I wouldn't say Harper is toast in urban Canada due to the gains he made in the last election. I'd almost say he would have had Quebec in the bag had he not said he was going to slash arts funding in the middle of a campaign.

If you can't communicate properly as a politician or party, then your toast. The Liberals found that out in Western Canada, and the Tories found that out in Quebec.

Had Harper treated urban Canadians in the matter Trudeau treated Western Canadians, the CPC would have to spend years rebranding and blowing up the party.

As for the signs, the Libs and NDP finally decided to put some up. Maybe they were reading here...

So signs are communication? Maybe parties not named conservative have a difficult time because print and radio aren't friendly and TV isn't as effective as it is in urban ridings? You can be the greatest orator in the world but it doesn't help if you have no medium or people refuse to answer the door.

As for Trudeau losing rural votes, yeah, he did lose a few. However, the notion that the west voted Liberal before him isn't accurate. The Liberals NEVER did well in western Canada because, whether or not rural policy was actually good, because they're not perceived to be good on the economy. Just like they're perceived to be horribly irresponsible fiscally despite the fact that the CPC has a far worse record. It's just what people believe.

Edited November 18, 2010 by nicky10013

[madmax]

People weren't voting for Rob Ford. They were voting for the idiot who could scream the loudest about city spending whether it was Conservative, Liberal, NDP or whatever. Ford's sweep was far more about anti-incumbency as it was about party affiliation. Which is a bad thing for the CPC. I wonder who the incumbents are in Ottawa.

Unless there's a drastic change between now and election, there is pretty much a 0% chance the CPC wins a vote within the city.

My observation is similar to yours in this regard.

[fellowtraveller]

Unless there's a drastic change between now and election, there is pretty much a 0% chance the CPC wins a vote within the city.

I smell a great business opportunity....how much would it cost to set up a Liberal Friendly ad agency? I foresee vast amounts of cash flowing soon, very soon.

Edited November 22, 2010 by fellowtraveller

[Evening Star]

As for Trudeau losing rural votes, yeah, he did lose a few. However, the notion that the west voted Liberal before him isn't accurate. The Liberals NEVER did well in western Canada

Actually, iirc, the best the LPC ever did in AB was in 1968, in PET's first election.

[Evening Star]

I'm not even sure that the LPC's unpopularity in the West was ever mainly because they were seen as poor on the economy as much as just that they were seen as representing Central Canada. I'm not sure that St Laurent or C.D. Howe were seen as poor economic managers.

[bloodyminded]

The problem is the "trailer trash" of both urban and rural areas which are a vacuum of tax receipts.

At least you're good enough to put the elitist class-designation within scare quotes.

Many others, who cherish such classist demographic notions, wouldn't bother.

Edited November 22, 2010 by bloodyminded

[nicky10013]

I'm not even sure that the LPC's unpopularity in the West was ever mainly because they were seen as poor on the economy as much as just that they were seen as representing Central Canada. I'm not sure that St Laurent or C.D. Howe were seen as poor economic managers.

Looking back to my original statement, it seems to have been a freudian slip. I meant to say the view is that the LPC is bad on rural issues, not the economy and that despite the actual policy, the view will always be there, just like everyone views liberals as tax and spenders, when if you actually look at the record it's pretty much the exact opposite.

[Jack Weber]

I have met many a Centre Right, Right Wing Urbanite who knows nothing about Rural issues or cares one bit about them.

The people who tend to care about Rural Issues are RURAL Canadians, be they left or right.

The dominance of Urban influence on rural issues is always a threat to rural communities.

What is more important then slandering some left right divide on rural communities is to make sure rural communities still have the power to elect an MLA, MP, MPP who can represent their issues well against the larger Urban voice.

Perhaps the NDP in your area has lost that ability, or the public no longer feel that they do.

I can tell u in Ontario, the Conservatives have nothing short of contempt for Rural communities unless the issue is about their retirement home/cottage which is often in the $500,000 to MULTI MILLION $ paradise. I watch as some urbanites spend 500,000 on landscaping alone. But this hardly reflects the feelings and issues most traditional rural Canadians face.

IIRC Ontario Northern Rural Area is virtually Orange, and on the Federal Scene, I believe the NDP has the biggest mix of Urban and Rural seats which makes for interesting times.

However, I am not one to believe that a political party is better at representing the rural voice better then another.

Only a local strong voice can do that.

In the meantime, here, when I see Jerks like Ritz crap on our Rural community and farmers (glad that clown is gone now), I can tell u that the right has no strangle hold on the rural voice.

If I had to take a guess on a federal MP from the right who likely held a strong voice for the rural pop, It could be Inky Mark. However that local community could answer that better then myself.

When I think of someone on the left representing the Rural Voice, I can easily picture John Rafferty.

Now, if you want to find a Rural voice within the Liberal Party... that is currently something difficult for them to achieve. Someone would have to step up to the plate.

What is important is for rural communities to maintain balance within the electoral system. I always fear one day the ridings may be jerry rigged to silence their voices. The PCs did that in Ontario.

Amalgamation was brutal on rural communitees and sucked the political process away from the people and took the rural resources to the cities.

The Rural communities got the Cities Garbage.

Fair Trade???

I agree with your assessment on Onatrio politics....

Interstingly enough,the PC party is basically a rural party in this province specifically because their message simply does'nt resonate well with urban voters...

We still have to deal with the likes of Randy Hillier,however...

[wyly]

I agree with your assessment on Onatrio politics....

Interstingly enough,the PC party is basically a rural party in this province specifically because their message simply does'nt resonate well with urban voters...

We still have to deal with the likes of Randy Hillier,however...

so what you're suggesting is... "does the mainstream rural right care about urban Canada?"

[bloodyminded]

so what you're suggesting is... "does the mainstream rural right care about urban Canada?"

Ah! Now there's an interesting question, in fact begged by the other question.

[Shady]

Unfortunately, the rural right isn't mainstream.

[bloodyminded]

Unfortunately, the rural right isn't mainstream.

Perhaps not to those who think "right" means hardcore, by-the-book "conservatism" as practiced by End-Timers and people still frightened of the Communist menace.

But yes, rural conservatives are mainstream, as are urban liberals, urban conservatives, and rural lefties. All of which are very real, and only a portion of the larger, mixed, myriad mainstream.

[punked]

Driving across Western Manitoba this past weekend, I have seen a disturbing thing. There is a by-election coming soon, and I have not yet seen any Liberal or NDP signs. Not even a couple, I am talking zero. For a national party, wanting to represent all Canadians, I think that is proposterous and hypocritical. Ignatieff looks like a hypocrite for saying he wants to reach out to rural Canada and fix the Liberal brand there, and yet does not even have the stones to even put up signs. Jack Layton is in the same boat is Ignatieff.

In all likelyhood, the Liberals and NDP will get destroyed in the by-election, but the fact that they won't even try is IMO insulting to rural Canadians. Do the tories not put up signs in hard left ridings such as downtown WInnipeg?

I and probably the average voter do not know who the Liberal and NDP candidates are.

If SmallC has found any signs, I would like to know, because this is one instance where I would like to eat crow.

Might point Jack Layton as of right now is the ONLY leader to visit that ridding. He flew in a snow storm and barely made it.

[Shady]

Perhaps not to those who think "right" means hardcore, by-the-book "conservatism" as practiced by End-Timers and people still frightened of the Communist menace.

I have no idea what book you're referring to in regards to your by-the-book conservatism. I also have no idea who you're referring to, and/or what you're referring to by End-Timers.

However, in regards to the Communist menace. Do you mean the Communist menace that just attacked South Korea today?

[bloodyminded]

I have no idea what book you're referring to in regards to your by-the-book conservatism. I also have no idea who you're referring to, and/or what you're referring to by End-Timers.

However, in regards to the Communist menace. Do you mean the Communist menace that just attacked South Korea today?

N. Korea is a rogue state. I'm talking about the global Communist threat, bent on taking over everybody else.

I understand that some people miss the delightfully Manichean Good versus Evil paradigm, and so now think the civilized, humanitarian West (well...really just the noble United States of America, with its morally-inferior allies tagging along) are sincerely battling the evils of "Islamofascism."

Mention to these folks basic truisms--like that the U.S., Canada, the UK, etc are themselves terrorist states on a scale that no doubt makes Hamas blush with envy--and they throw pretty little tantrums.

However, none of this is in any way my fault, personally.

Edited November 23, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Shady]

N. Korea is a rogue state. I'm talking about the global Communist threat, bent on taking over everybody else.

I understand that some people miss the delightfully Manichean Good versus Evil paradigm, and so now think the civilized, humanitarian West (well...really just the noble United States of America, with its morally-inferior allies tagging along) are sincerely battling the evils of "Islamofascism."

Mention to these folks basic truisms--like that the U.S., Canada, the UK, etc are themselves terrorist states on a scale that no doubt makes Hamas blush with envy--and they throw pretty little tantrums.

However, none of this is in any way my fault, personally.

Once again, I have no idea what book you're referring to in regards to your by-the-book conservatism. I also have no idea who you're referring to, and/or what you're referring to by End-Timers. And I'm not sure why you're bringing in the west, and America, and inferior allies, and Hamas, etc. Apparently you get distracted pretty easily by many different things. Not just Glenn Beck.

[guyser]

Once again, I have no idea what book you're referring to in regards to your by-the-book conservatism. I also have no idea who you're referring to, and/or what you're referring to by End-Timers.

Admit it, you're just not smart enough to understand.

S'ok, we've known for quite some time.

Edited November 23, 2010 by guyser

[Jack Weber]

Once again, I have no idea what book you're referring to in regards to your by-the-book conservatism. I also have no idea who you're referring to, and/or what you're referring to by End-Timers. And I'm not sure why you're bringing in the west, and America, and inferior allies, and Hamas, etc. Apparently you get distracted pretty easily by many different things. Not just Glenn Beck.

That "book" is the one that is followed alot of your "conservative" constituency....

Nothing like being willfully clueless,eh Professor?

[Jack Weber]

Admit it, you're just not smart enough to understand.

S'ok, we've known for quite some time.

KABOOM!!!!

[Jack Weber]

so what you're suggesting is... "does the mainstream rural right care about urban Canada?"

If you listen to the likes of Hillier's invective you could make that case....

[Shady]

That "book" is the one that is followed alot of your "conservative" constituency....

What's it called?

[Jack Weber]

What's it called?

Thank you again for consistently proving your utter cluelessness...

[BubberMiley]

I also have no idea who you're referring to, and/or what you're referring to by End-Timers.

I think I've found a new quote for my signature.