Islamist groups seek ‘parallel society’ in Canada

[Moonlight Graham]

Until they change the law...

yuppers.

[ToadBrother]

So people are slowly realizing how screwed this country is thatnks to PET. I KNOW DOWN DEEP HIISTORY WILL TELL THE STORY HOW A SRTRONG AND FREE COUNTRY BECAME A 3RD WORLD COUNTRY BECAUSE OF THE LIBERAL PARTY OF CANADA , BRINGING IN ANYBODY NO MATTER HOW IT EFFECTED THE COUNTRY TO KEEP THEIR VOTERS BASE STRONG. WE NEED TO NIP THIS IN THE BUD AND STOP IT NOW. iT IS TIME FOR PEOPLE TO CHANGE THIER OWN COUNTRIES TO MAKE IT IN TO WHAT THEY WANT AND LEAVE THIS ONE ALONE.sorry for the caps did not notice , and not going to change it. lol

I'd like to demonstrate that throughout the last 150 years or so manic individuals like yourself have been demanding an end to every wave of immigrants, using the precisely same justifications. At first it was the Irish, who were Catholic and supposedly lazy and no good, then it was the Italians, who were Catholic and all criminals, and then it was the Eastern Europeans, who were viewed as practically being aliens, or the Chinese who were going to outbreed the poor white man into extinction, and so on and so forth. Now it's the Muslim who is going to make all our daughters wear veils and blow us up in shopping malls, and on and on it goes.

Edited November 15, 2010 by ToadBrother

[Moonlight Graham]

If you didn't get it Muslims are a part of western society, they have been in Canada for 40 years now, and I cannot recall a single executed plot against Canada ever. Canada is suppose to be a society, re the charter, that allows religious, thought, belief, and conscious, in pursuit of life, liberty, and security.

The OP wasn't taking about all Muslims, it was talking about Islamists. Islamists are radical fundamentalist Muslims, ie: the group that has tried to carry out terrorist attacks within Canada.

Islamists are, i suppose, guaranteed freedom of religion and belief under the Charter, yet their teachings, including jihad, threaten the Charter rights of "life" and "security of the person" of other Canadians. So who wins?

Islamists who believe in violent means can kiss my big western ass.

[Guest TrueMetis]

The OP wasn't taking about all Muslims, it was talking about Islamists. Islamists are radical fundamentalist Muslims, ie: the group that has tried to carry out terrorist attacks within Canada.

Islamists are, i suppose, guaranteed freedom of religion and belief under the Charter, yet their teachings, including jihad, threaten the Charter rights of "life" and "security of the person" of other Canadians. So who wins?

Islamists who believe in violent means can kiss my big western ass.

Well this is why it's all within reasonable limits, so we win.

Edited November 15, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Robart]

This is disturbing and I suppose a reality we may have to face..

TORONTO — A newly released intelligence report says hardline Islamist groups want to build a “parallel society” in Canada, which could undermine the country’s social cohesion and foster violence.

The de-classified Intelligence Assessment obtained by the National Post says extremists have been encouraging Muslims in the West to reject Western society and to live in “self-imposed isolation.” The report focuses on groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb-ut-Tahrir, which do not advocate terrorist violence but promote an ideology at odds with core Western values.

“Even if the use of violence is not outwardly expressed, the creation of isolated communities can spawn groups that are exclusivist and potentially open to messages in which violence is advocated,” it says. “At a minimum, the existence of such mini-societies undermines resilience and the fostering of a cohesive Canadian nation.”

The report was written by the Integrated Threat Assessment Centre, which monitors threats to Canada’s national security and is composed of representatives of CSIS, the RCMP, Foreign Affairs, National Defence and other agencies.

It was circulated internally last year after Hizb-ut-Tahrir invited Muslims to a conference in Mississauga, Ont., to discuss the establishment of an Islamic caliphate. A copy of the document was recently released under the Access to Information Act.

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Islamist+groups+seek+parallel+society+Canada+report/3827175/story.html#ixzz15JZMktto/quote]

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Islamist+groups+seek+parallel+society+Canada+report/3827175/story.html#ixzz15JZBe8Be

you're saying they want their own "Quebec"?

[bush_cheney2004]

..you're saying they want their own "Quebec"?

Gee, why hasn't this obvious point been made earlier?

[Michael Hardner]

Gee, why hasn't this obvious point been made earlier?

It's not the same. Quebec has quasi-sovereign land, a people who have claim on it, and recognition from Canada as a separate nation to name three major differences.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's not the same. Quebec has quasi-sovereign land, a people who have claim on it, and recognition from Canada as a separate nation to name three major differences.

So do First Nations....when they can...claims remain unsettled. But the point is "parallel" cultures, not sovereign land. The "Islamists" would have every Charter Right to do the same. Oh what a tangled web....

[Michael Hardner]

So do First Nations....when they can...claims remain unsettled. But the point is "parallel" cultures, not sovereign land. The "Islamists" would have every Charter Right to do the same. Oh what a tangled web....

It's not the same. Quebec actually has a society, in fact they're a nation within a nation. Their sovereignty over cultural matters is accepted, with conditions, by TROC. Religious rights that are enshrined within the constitution are much more limited than, say, language rights wielded by the government of Quebec.

The aforementioned example of Bountiful, BC, is a closer analogy to what we're taking about here.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's not the same. Quebec actually has a society, in fact they're a nation within a nation. Their sovereignty over cultural matters is accepted, with conditions, by TROC. Religious rights that are enshrined within the constitution are much more limited than, say, language rights wielded by the government of Quebec.

You are ignoring the larger point....Canada already has a "parallel society" by constitution and practice. It is ludicrous to pretend otherwise in the face of yet another one sponsored by "Islamists". No wonder Canada is considered such a fine candidate to do such a thing.

[Shwa]

You are ignoring the larger point....Canada already has a "parallel society" by constitution and practice. It is ludicrous to pretend otherwise in the face of yet another one sponsored by "Islamists". No wonder Canada is considered such a fine candidate to do such a thing.

Damn! Nipped in the ass by freedom again. That is the third time this year!

[Michael Hardner]

You are ignoring the larger point....Canada already has a "parallel society" by constitution and practice. It is ludicrous to pretend otherwise in the face of yet another one sponsored by "Islamists". No wonder Canada is considered such a fine candidate to do such a thing.

Canada has two founding nations, true, but that doesn't make it a better candidate any more than the US's foundation on religious freedom does. It's just free thoughts, seeing shapes in clouds against a blue sky - that's what you're doing here.

The country does have more tolerance for diversity, and maybe the fact that we have two founding nations frames that somewhat. But Quebec isn't a parallel society, it's 1/2 of what founded Canada, not just another big state.

You have a better understanding of Canada than, likely, one in a thousand Americans but you still get certain things wrong from time to time. Why don't you move here, and you can improve your understanding even more. You could be another WC Van Horne - an American who came here to show us how it's done, then never left and became more Canadian than Canadian.

[bush_cheney2004]

.....You have a better understanding of Canada than, likely, one in a thousand Americans but you still get certain things wrong from time to time. Why don't you move here, and you can improve your understanding even more. You could be another WC Van Horne - an American who came here to show us how it's done, then never left and became more Canadian than Canadian.

Now you're just getting defensive....Canada has instantiated a parallel society, culture, and language by constitution, federal law, and provincial law. Furthermore, such preferences are extended to Christian religious groups (i.e Catholics and Protestants). It is just laughable to read of a grave concern about "Islamists" in this context....the idea is certainly not "new" in Canada...of all places.

[Michael Hardner]

Now you're just getting defensive....Canada has instantiated a parallel society, culture, and language by constitution, federal law, and provincial law. Furthermore, such preferences are extended to Christian religious groups (i.e Catholics and Protestants). It is just laughable to read of a grave concern about "Islamists" in this context....the idea is certainly not "new" in Canada...of all places.

Maybe I'm more patriotic than I think, or maybe your lack of understanding of this just gets under my skin. Parallel society is not a description for two equally engaged founding peoples. Was the Confederate south a parallel society ? I would say no.

Subculture is a way to refer to an insular religious group inside a larger nation.

And, you're right, it's not a new idea. The Doukhabours were around long ago and were more disruptive, too.

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe I'm more patriotic than I think, or maybe your lack of understanding of this just gets under my skin. Parallel society is not a description for two equally engaged founding peoples. Was the Confederate south a parallel society ? I would say no.

Yes...in many ways the Confederate South was a parallel society with a key economic difference. It failed while Quebec has succeeded (more or less) in carving out a separate relationship and "society", but not without continuing stress points and fractures.

Subculture is a way to refer to an insular religious group inside a larger nation.

OK....Americans do not feel threatened by separate Amish "subcultures".....whereas a separate New York would not be tolerated.

Edited November 15, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

Yes...in many ways the Confederate South was a parallel society with a key economic difference.

I don't think the world 'parallel' quite fits here, but I gave you my analogy to the US and you still like it. Ok, well we agree to disagree then.

[DogOnPorch]

bc-2004: OK....Americans do not feel threatened by separate Amish "subcultures".....whereas a separate New York would not be tolerated.

Indeed. Plus most of these yahoos don't bother to admit how close the USA and Canada have become over the last century or so. As you know, but others seem to have problems grasping...it is possible to have a wife who was born in St John's NwfndLnd...grew up in St Peter Minn. (near you), moved to Rankin Inlet NWT then Nome Alaska...and then finally settled in British Columbia...who'd a thunk it?

[scribblet]

It might be conducive to the discussion to read the last paragraph of the posted article where Tarek Fatah says about Mennonites: “You can talk about the Mennonites but the Mennonites’ aim in life is not to destroy Western civilization, it is seclusion.”

[Argus]

How many "hard line Islamists" are we talking about here?

Ah well, that's the question, isn't it. Polls have put it as high as 40-50% of the Muslim population, a population doubling in size every five years.

People have talked about the Amish, and such, but these are tiny, hard working isolationist groups which are, moreover, peaceful. When was the last time the police arrested an Amish drug dealer or gang member?

The very thought is absurd.

The needs of the Amish are few, and they work together as a community.

The needs of Muslims are not so easily satisfied. Muslims want the same stuff everyone else has, from nice cars, to nice houses, phones, computers, etc. Unfortunately, large numbers lack the education, skills and linguistic abilities. And they are not at all reluctant to demand aid from the state - something the Amish eschew. Nor are they inclined to set up small villages and farmsteads far from the bright lights. So they will live among us, and thus we are affected/influenced by their collective behaviour and actions. If large numbers of them are so repulsed by our culture they seek to distances themselves and their children from it - which we know many do - that can present a problem, especially as their numbers continue to grow.

Oddly enough, the group which comes quickest to my mind are the Haradim - Ultra Orthodox Jews in Israel. As with these people, they're extremely religious, isolationist, socially regressive, and have a tendency towards violence.

Israel's demographic challenge

And it's not inconcievable that Muslims in Canada could one day influence the political process, and thus the rules we all live under, in the same way these crazy Jews do, especially if there is some sort of Liberal NDP coallition, and the Liberals agree to impliment proportional representation.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

Ah well, that's the question, isn't it. Polls have put it as high as 40-50% of the Muslim population, a population doubling in size every five years.

To point out the last thread in which we discussed this, YOU put it at 10% then used an article from the biased Western Standard as proof, wherein they paraphrased a survey that they were quoting.

I asked you to give the original source survey and didn't hear back.

Nobody has put 40-50% of the population as supporting violence, to my knowledge.

[Robart]

Now you're just getting defensive....Canada has instantiated a parallel society, culture, and language by constitution, federal law, and provincial law. Furthermore, such preferences are extended to Christian religious groups (i.e Catholics and Protestants). It is just laughable to read of a grave concern about "Islamists" in this context....the idea is certainly not "new" in Canada...of all places.

is "instantiated" even a word????

[bush_cheney2004]

is "instantiated" even a word????

Yes...born of object oriented programming:

in·stan·ti·ate

transitive verb - also in·stan·ti·at·ed, in·stan·ti·at·ing, in·stan·ti·ates

To represent (an abstract concept) by a concrete or tangible example: "Two apples ... both instantiate the single universal redness".

[Michael Hardner]

I was about to say... B_C does Java...

[dre]

is "instantiated" even a word????

Yeah it means to "create an instance of".

[KeyStone]

This is disturbing and I suppose a reality we may have to face..

TORONTO — A newly released intelligence report says hardline Islamist groups want to build a “parallel society” in Canada, which could undermine the country’s social cohesion and foster violence.

The de-classified Intelligence Assessment obtained by the National Post says extremists have been encouraging Muslims in the West to reject Western society and to live in “self-imposed isolation.” The report focuses on groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb-ut-Tahrir, which do not advocate terrorist violence but promote an ideology at odds with core Western values.

“Even if the use of violence is not outwardly expressed, the creation of isolated communities can spawn groups that are exclusivist and potentially open to messages in which violence is advocated,” it says. “At a minimum, the existence of such mini-societies undermines resilience and the fostering of a cohesive Canadian nation.”

The report was written by the Integrated Threat Assessment Centre, which monitors threats to Canada’s national security and is composed of representatives of CSIS, the RCMP, Foreign Affairs, National Defence and other agencies.

It was circulated internally last year after Hizb-ut-Tahrir invited Muslims to a conference in Mississauga, Ont., to discuss the establishment of an Islamic caliphate. A copy of the document was recently released under the Access to Information Act.

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Islamist+groups+seek+parallel+society+Canada+report/3827175/story.html#ixzz15JZMktto/quote]

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Islamist+groups+seek+parallel+society+Canada+report/3827175/story.html#ixzz15JZBe8Be

I see that Islamaophobic fearmongering is perfectly accepted by our national newspapers and our intelligence community.

Try sticking the word Jewish in there, instead of Islamist, and see the complaints and 'hate crime' accusations roll in.