Cell phones in Ontario classrooms

[Alta4ever]

Perhaps that's a problem, or ... maybe arithmetic follows Latin, blacksmithing and mechanical skills as talents that aren't needed anymore ?

Right

[Michael Hardner]

Right

It's probably more important for students these days to know what constitutes a proper statistically valid survey than be able to add...

[P. McGee]

Perhaps that's a problem, or ... maybe arithmetic follows Latin, blacksmithing and mechanical skills as talents that aren't needed anymore ?

Mechanical skills not needed anymore? All those vehicles on the roads don't fix themselves, then you have industrial machines, home appliances, etc. Maybe at some point all our technology will be imported and maintenance free, and we can all either work in accounting or flip burgers.

[Wilber]

Perhaps that's a problem, or ... maybe arithmetic follows Latin, blacksmithing and mechanical skills as talents that aren't needed anymore ?

I'd love to see you try and function in a society where no one has those skills. Now days, take away someones phone and all its functions and they are helpless. One dead battery away from being functionally comatose.

[Michael Hardner]

Mechanical skills not needed anymore? All those vehicles on the roads don't fix themselves, then you have industrial machines, home appliances, etc. Maybe at some point all our technology will be imported and maintenance free, and we can all either work in accounting or flip burgers.

Hardly at all... vehicles don't require as much mechanical ability to be fixed, as I understand it.

Not all our technology will be imported and maintenance free, because we'll still need Javascript coders and bio engineers.

[Michael Hardner]

I'd love to see you try and function in a society where no one has those skills. Now days, take away someones phone and all its functions and they are helpless. One dead battery away from being functionally comatose.

I can survive without plumbing or electricity for long periods of time. But many can't. Would you have them learn to camp out ? I met a girl from California who couldn't open a can, even with two flavours of can opener available to her.

[wyly]

I'd love to see you try and function in a society where no one has those skills. Now days, take away someones phone and all its functions and they are helpless. One dead battery away from being functionally comatose.

our entire society is helpless without technology that includes us dinosaurs not just the iphone generation...how many of us can preserve food?...how many of us can plow a field without a tractor?...how many of us still know how to skin an animal and make clothing or a pair of shoes? ...if our power system goes down from a solar flare which will knock out satelites and transformers all over the globe we're all screwed because those skill sets we used to know to survive are gone...we'll have no advantage over the iphone kids...

[charter.rights]

I can survive without plumbing or electricity for long periods of time. But many can't. Would you have them learn to camp out ? I met a girl from California who couldn't open a can, even with two flavours of can opener available to her.

I'm the same.

I use a smart phone and have one of the best and most advanced computer systems available.

Yet I could go into the bush and survive for months without hardly a blink. I also have my pantry and cold cellar stocked such that where I live I could go months without having to visit a store. Add to that, I can go out my back yard and have partridge, turkey, deer, or fish to eat in a matter of minutes.

The point is that technology is a useful tool BUT if the technology uses you, then you are the tool.

[P. McGee]

Hardly at all... vehicles don't require as much mechanical ability to be fixed, as I understand it.

Like you I'm no expert, but try telling an auto mechanic that mechanical skills are hardly needed in his job anymore.

[wyly]

I'm the same.

I use a smart phone and have one of the best and most advanced computer systems available.

Yet I could go into the bush and survive for months without hardly a blink. I also have my pantry and cold cellar stocked such that where I live I could go months without having to visit a store. Add to that, I can go out my back yard and have partridge, turkey, deer, or fish to eat in a matter of minutes.

The point is that technology is a useful tool BUT if the technology uses you, then you are the tool.

but you're choosing the start period of your technology...can you kill a deer without a gun? can you make your own bow, knife?...your techonolgy is no different than new technology, without the technology you use you would be as helpless as the anyone...the only people who can survive without technology are people still using the most ancient of technologies every day...

[Michael Hardner]

Like you I'm no expert, but try telling an auto mechanic that mechanical skills are hardly needed in his job anymore.

I'm worse than no expert. I don't even like looking under the hood of a car.

An auto mechanic first told me this years ago. He works on Audis, I think, and has to use some computerized gotcha magoo to test them rather than using his noggin.

[Michael Hardner]

The point is that technology is a useful tool BUT if the technology uses you, then you are the tool.

Technology uses us as much as we use it. How have cellphones fared over the past twenty years, in comparison to humans ?

In any case, we can't ignore some technologies but smart phones in classrooms ? I place their importance somewhat below television and somewhat above the pencil with the eraser on the end.

[wyly]

I'm worse than no expert. I don't even like looking under the hood of a car.

An auto mechanic first told me this years ago. He works on Audis, I think, and has to use some computerized gotcha magoo to test them rather than using his noggin.

but cars are much more technical now then they used to be, and they're much better as well thanks to computers and the only way to fix a computer is by knowing how to talk to them...the computers reveal everything about a car better than any old time mechanic could...

[wyly]

In any case, we can't ignore some technologies but smart phones in classrooms ? I place their importance somewhat below television and somewhat above the pencil with the eraser on the end.

you're age is showing...just because you don't see the potential don't disregard it before you anything about it...I thought pocket calculators would never amount to anything, nor did I ever think I'd need a cellphone...wasn't it Bill Gates who said he could never envision anyone ever needing a computer with more than 64K...

[Michael Hardner]

you're age is showing...just because you don't see the potential don't disregard it before you anything about it...

Before I anything about it ?

I'm just guessing here, but my guess is that this thing won't have a big effect on education, other than being a quick way to get answers to snap questions.

[charter.rights]

but cars are much more technical now then they used to be, and they're much better as well thanks to computers and the only way to fix a computer is by knowing how to talk to them...the computers reveal everything about a car better than any old time mechanic could...

I would disagree. My wife's new car last year stalled before we even got it out of the dealership lot. They fixed it and in the next 2 weeks stalled 3 more times - each time having to have it towed to the dealer for repairs. They scoped it and put the computer on it and every was stumped. They finally called the technical assistance call centre (which my father-in-law set up before he passed on) and after about 4 hours of research found out that it was a problem with some filings having been dropped in a sensor as it was being manufactured. TACC had the answer but only after they had to rip the car apart.

My father-in-law however, was an excellent trouble shooter and could tell by sound and vibration where the problems in an engine were coming from. As I mentioned, he was in charge to the group that set up GM's TACC (as Director of Technical Services GM Canada) and could have easily found the problem long before the plug-in computer did.

Edited September 21, 2010 by charter.rights

[wyly]

Before I anything about it ?

I'm just guessing here, but my guess is that this thing won't have a big effect on education, other than being a quick way to get answers to snap questions.

when I was in High school slide rules were the aid even though the work could be done without it, and pocket calculators were banned?...now the calculators and computer software my kids use is beyond my ability...and their effect on education is significant...

my nephew an Engineer pointed out to me that the technology ban was stupid, knowing the method used to find the answer is the important part not being able to make pages long calculations to find an answer, why on earth would you waste your time doing something that can be done quicker and with more certainty by a computer...what you question today as to it's value will evolve into something you can't even imagine in 10 yrs...

[wyly]

I would disagree. My wife's new car last year stalled before we even got it out of the dealership lot. They fixed it and in the next 2 weeks stalled 3 more times - each time having to have it towed to the dealer for repairs. They scoped it and put the computer on it and every was stumped. They finally called the technical assistance call centre (which my father-in-law set up before he passed on) and after about 4 hours of research found out that it was a problem with some filings having been dropped in a sensor as it was being manufactured. TACC had the answer but only after they had to rip the car apart.

My father-in-law however, was an excellent trouble shooter and could tell by sound and vibration where the problems in an engine were coming from. As I mentioned, he was in charge to the group that set up GM's TACC (as Director of Technical Services GM Canada) and could have easily found the problem long before the plug-in computer did.

and I had a GM truck with old technology that dropped two motors before I figured out the factory trained mechanics were putting in the wrong size oil pan gasket...and in another brand new non-computerized car GM factory trained mechanics repeatedly refused to believe me the fuel pump was causing my car to stall,after 5 returns to the shop it was the fuel pump....

your car's computer has no control over the build conditions, that would've beyond it's scope and that of the mechanics involved...

[Wilber]

I can survive without plumbing or electricity for long periods of time. But many can't. Would you have them learn to camp out ? I met a girl from California who couldn't open a can, even with two flavours of can opener available to her.

You may be able to but society can't. Computers don't install and repair plumbing or electrical systems. Computers are used to diagnose many faults in autos but they don't do the physical work required to fix them or have the proper skills and work practices. It's amazing how much damage can be done with a simple wrench or screw driver by someone who doesn't know how to use one. Over tightening even one fastener can be very expensive.

One should also at least be able to know when they are being short changed.

[treehugger]

Cell phones in classrooms- Another Grand idea from pointy head McGuinty.

There are too many cell phones in schools now, every time you look at someone today they have their eyes glued to some electronic thing.

[Shwa]

Cell phones in classrooms- Another Grand idea from pointy head McGuinty.

There are too many cell phones in schools now, every time you look at someone today they have their eyes glued to some electronic thing.

Really thanks for that. It is nice to see some well-framed, thought-provoking responses instead of the previous back and forth partisan-like hubris from all the previous posters.

Wait. If you are reading this then it is likely you too have your "eyes glued to some electronic thing." Good thing I can't see you...

[Alta4ever]

I'm worse than no expert. I don't even like looking under the hood of a car.

An auto mechanic first told me this years ago. He works on Audis, I think, and has to use some computerized gotcha magoo to test them rather than using his noggin.

That computerized gotcha magoo, is a code reader it will tell you what is wrong, not how to fix it. He still has to use his noggin.

[GostHacked]

Really thanks for that. It is nice to see some well-framed, thought-provoking responses instead of the previous back and forth partisan-like hubris from all the previous posters.

Wait. If you are reading this then it is likely you too have your "eyes glued to some electronic thing." Good thing I can't see you...

Well take a look around sometime a group of kids with cellphones, and what are they doing with them? It's a reality, not some dumb ass partisan crap. If computers are already in the school, why do you need another device to rely on?

Leave them out of the classroom, not sure if education warrants them, but kids seriously don't need another device that will cause distractions in class.

[Shwa]

Well take a look around sometime a group of kids with cellphones, and what are they doing with them? It's a reality, not some dumb ass partisan crap. If computers are already in the school, why do you need another device to rely on?

Notwithstanding I was joking...

Are computers in each and every classroom a kid is going to learn in? How about those 'outdoor classrooms?' Why pencils when we have pens? Why teachers when we have parents? All other extra "devices" for learning.

Leave them out of the classroom, not sure if education warrants them, but kids seriously don't need another device that will cause distractions in class.

Gawd, you are probably not even 30 and already you are a cranky old man. Get out of the way of progress GH, you might get your toes run over.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Shwa

[regroup]

A cell phone is primarily a person-to-person communication device and that function has little or no use in a classroom. The Internet access it provides may be useful and this function is the excuse McGuinty used for his photo-op announcement. The benefits of the Internet access are far outweighed by the distractions offered by the prime use, person-to-person communications. If the latter could be disabled, perhaps allowing them in a classroom might be valuable. The major flaw then becomes the 'advantage' a cell phone owner gains over the student who does not own one. It would seem unreasonable to require ownership and the schools certainly cannot afford to supply each student with one.