Ayaan Hirsi Ali , Atheist, Feminist Activist

[betsy]

This lady - who is an Atheist - proposes a solution to fight muslim radicalization: Proselytyze in Muslim Communities and try to convert them to Christianity.

The following is an excerpt from an interview with Hirsi Ali.

Q: You view the West as being at war not only with terrorists but with Islam itself. Who do you think will win?

A: The West will be victorious because the ideas of life are just far superior to the ideas of death. The question is what price we want to pay to win. How many people should die before victory? How much money and resources should we spend? We’re just not being effective now because we are being nice and avoiding the subject of Islam. We need to talk about Islam, about what’s in the Quran. The debate right now among Westerners is very defensive; all people want to prove is that they’re not Islamophobes.

Q: Consequently, according to Paul Berman in his new book The Flight of the Intellectuals, you’ve received “dreadful treatment” from, and have been trivialized by, the intelligentsia. Do you agree?

A: He’s addressing a debate within liberalism. He is, just like me and I think many others, surprised—and that’s an understatement—that some liberals choose to defend ideas that are very illiberal and choose to look away from practices that are even more illiberal. Why are they excusing radical Islam? That fascinates Berman and it also fascinates me, what the presence of Islam does to the liberal psyche in the West.

Q: What does Islam do to the liberal psyche?

A: Confuses it. The liberal psyche wants to protect minorities, to apologize for imperialism, colonialism, slavery, and the appalling treatment of black people during the civil rights movement. At the same time, they want to continue to defend the rights of individuals. They’ve convinced themselves that the best way to do that in general is to defend the cultures that are non-white. But what they forget, and what they’re being confronted with, is that non-white cultures contain misogynistic, collectivist, tribal, gay-unfriendly and female-hostile traditions. And so they’re confused: on the one hand, they’re looking at minorities as groups they need to save and speak up for, and on the other hand, they’re confronted with the ideas and practices of individuals within those minorities that are very undemocratic and appalling, really.

Q: You believe there is no such thing as moderate Islam. If that’s true, why do so many Muslims in the West say they’re horrified by violence perpetrated in the name of Islam?

A: I haven’t heard anybody say they’re horrified. Just to compare, many Americans, Canadians and Europeans protested the war on Iraq; they gathered themselves, they sent lots of emails, there was a lot of activism, they marched against this war. I haven’t seen that kind of thing from Muslims saying, “We’re against the numerous terrorist attacks all over the world carried out in the name of Islam.” No marches, no organizations, nothing. There are individuals, like Irshad Manji, like me, born into Islam, who stand up and say, “Hey, we don’t like this.” But we haven’t seen any kind of institutionalized protest by Muslims. That is the big question mark: are Muslims silent because they agree with the terrorist attacks? Or because they don’t know how to express themselves?

Q: One of your more startling arguments in Nomad is that Christian churches should proselytize in immigrant communities to try to convert Muslims.

A: Look at the amount of money Saudi Arabia spends on coming into Muslim communities in America and Europe, building schools and also taking leaders and training them in Mecca and Medina, then replanting them. It’s surprising that no other group of people is targeting the same communities. If you look at Western civilization, at the institutions [and movements] that were engaged in changing people’s hearts and minds—the Christian Church, humanists, feminists—they are doing next to nothing in these Muslim communities. When I was in Holland [recently], I heard about a Christian mission that had been proselytizing in Morocco. The government kicked them out and sent them back to Holland. I thought, “You don’t have to stop proselytizing—just go to the Muslim community in Amsterdam west and carry on there.” But of course there, they’re not only going to face the radical Muslims as opponents, they’re also going to face the multicultural opponents, saying they’re not supposed to be telling people to leave their religion.

Q: So how would they do it?

A: Next to every mosque, build a Christian centre, an enlightenment centre, a feminist centre. There are tons of websites, financed with Saudi money, promoting Wahabism. We need to set up our own websites—Christian, feminist, humanist—trying to target the same people, saying, we have an alternative moral framework to Islam. We have better ideas.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/05/21/why-christians-should-try-to-convert-muslims/

Ayaan Hirsi Ali ( pronunciation (help•info); Somali: Ayaan Xirsi Cali; born Ayaan Hirsi Magan; 13 November 1969) is a Somali feminist activist, writer, and politician. She is the daughter of the Somali scholar, politician, and revolutionary opposition leader Hirsi Magan Isse. She is a prominent critic of Islam, and her screenplay for Theo Van Gogh's movie Submission led to death threats.

(From Wikipedia)

[Shady]

She nails it perfectly!

Q: What does Islam do to the liberal psyche?

A: Confuses it. The liberal psyche wants to protect minorities, to apologize for imperialism, colonialism, slavery, and the appalling treatment of black people during the civil rights movement. At the same time, they want to continue to defend the rights of individuals. They’ve convinced themselves that the best way to do that in general is to defend the cultures that are non-white. But what they forget, and what they’re being confronted with, is that non-white cultures contain misogynistic, collectivist, tribal, gay-unfriendly and female-hostile traditions. And so they’re confused: on the one hand, they’re looking at minorities as groups they need to save and speak up for, and on the other hand, they’re confronted with the ideas and practices of individuals within those minorities that are very undemocratic and appalling, really.

[bloodyminded]

She nails it perfectly!

Not at all. She has no idea what people who disagree with her actually think. That's why she invents it for us...or, rather, plagairizes fatuous notions from professional left-haters. The AEI tutored her very well.

[betsy]

Not at all. She has no idea what people who disagree with her actually think.

Obviously you disagree with her assessment of the impact of Islam on the liberal psyche. Since I am not sure how you can possibly know for certain what other people actually think about this, care to enlighten us on what you actually think?

Edited September 13, 2010 by betsy

[Shady]

Obviously you disagree with her assessment of the impact of Islam on the liberal psyche. Since I am not sure how you can possibly know for certain what other people actually think about this, care to enlighten us on what you actually think?

Yep, he must be a mind reader.

Not to mention that he's doing the exact thing he's accusing her of doing! Priceless.

[ToadBrother]

This lady - who is an Atheist - proposes a solution to fight muslim radicalization: Proselytyze in Muslim Communities and try to convert them to Christianity.

Because that's never been tried before...

[GostHacked]

Because that's never been tried before...

And it's worked so well in the past. Wait, could it be that is the reason why the Muslims are pissed? I might just be crazy though.

[DogOnPorch]

And it's worked so well in the past. Wait, could it be that is the reason why the Muslims are pissed? I might just be crazy though.

Do you get the urge to shoot JWs when they walk up your driveway to proselytyze? No? Neither do I.

[GostHacked]

Do you get the urge to shoot JWs when they walk up your driveway to proselytyze? No? Neither do I.

No they don't pack heat. Mostly harmless the JWs are. The Christians came with armies.....

[Shady]

The Christians came with armies.....

Really? When was the last time Christians came with armies in an effort to convert Muslims to Christianity?

[ToadBrother]

Really? When was the last time Christians came with armies in an effort to convert Muslims to Christianity?

Look up "Crusades" some day. For related reading, look up what happened to the Moors when Ferdinand and Isabella completed the re-Christianization of the Iberian Peninsula.

Edited September 13, 2010 by ToadBrother

[Shady]

Look up "Crusades" some day.

Perhaps you need to look up "Crusades." The "Crusades" was a response to Islamic war and aggression. Complaining about that is like starting a fight with somebody, and getting mad when they punch back.

[DogOnPorch]

No they don't pack heat. Mostly harmless the JWs are. The Christians came with armies.....

As does Islam.

Are you missing the point? If someone bad-mouths your mixing skills do you fly into a rage and start suicide bombing his/her family? Of course not. But a certain dark-age desert religion with a child molestor as its prophet seems to have a hair-trigger re: Death to _____________(insert person/country/thing).

[DogOnPorch]

Perhaps you need to look up "Crusades." The "Crusades" was a response to Islamic war and aggression. Complaining about that is like starting a fight with somebody, and getting mad when they punch back.

Agreement. Folks often wrongly view the Crusades as Christian aggression...but it was a response (in slow-motion) to Islamic invasions.

[Guest American Woman]

Shady, on 13 September 2010 - 10:07 AM, said: Really? When was the last time Christians came with armies in an effort to convert Muslims to Christianity?

Look up "Crusades" some day. For related reading, look up what happened to the Moors when Ferdinand and Isabella completed the re-Christianization of the Iberian Peninsula.

So no matter how one views the Crusades, given your two examples, your answer is 'a loooong time ago;' and therefore it has no bearing on today's world.

[betsy]

No they don't pack heat. Mostly harmless the JWs are. The Christians came with armies.....

JWs - are you referring to Jehovah's Witness? Aren't they Christians?

[DogOnPorch]

JWs - are you referring to Jehovah's Witness? Aren't they Christians?

Not as such in that they don't believe in the holy trinity of your God.

[DogOnPorch]

So no matter how one views the Crusades, given your two examples, your answer is 'a loooong time ago;' and therefore it has no bearing on today's world.

Understanding how the Muslims aquired Jerusalem when they did and why it became a Muslim 'holy site' is key to understanding today's situation in the Levant.

[betsy]

Because that's never been tried before...

Yes it's been done before.....not too openly in most dangerous places I guess. That's why there are Arab Christians. It was mentioned in a talk show that there are even small Christian communities in the midst of Muslims (Can't recall what country).

Some countries are chasing away missionaries because Muslims are bleeding out to the Christian faith!

What she's suggesting is really to go after the immigrant Muslims - a concerted effort between Christians (showing a benign God), feminists (to show them that they - especially women - need not put up with oppression), and humanists (to show them that they are not alone).

Right now Hirsi Ali is an Atheist. With her painful experience as a Muslim, it's not surprising. But given time, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that she becomes a Christian convert!

Edited September 13, 2010 by betsy

[ToadBrother]

Agreement. Folks often wrongly view the Crusades as Christian aggression...but it was a response (in slow-motion) to Islamic invasions.

It's a delightful story. In reality it was the Papacy and the Christian princes of Western Europe hoping to seize control of one of the most important trade routes on the planet. You'll notice that the Crusader states founded in the Holy Land weren't giving a nod to Byzantium, or in any way restoring that territory to the Byzantine Emperors. Quite the opposite, the Fourth Crusade saw the Crusaders seize Constantinople, loot the place of its riches and set up the Latin Empire in its place. The Fourth Crusade not only was the final event that lead to the complete schism between the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Churches, it's by and large the reason that the Byzantine Empire was so horrifically weakened that it was ultimately toppled by the Turks.

[ToadBrother]

Yes it's been done before.....not too openly in most dangerous places I guess. That's why there are Arab Christians.

I would suspect most Arab Christians in the Middle East, like the Copts and the Palestinian Christians, are in fact the descendants of the Christians who occupied the region since before the Muslim invasions. The same for the Syrian Christians and other such groups. They're not the products of any kind of evangelistic effort, but survivors from pre-Muslim times.

Edited September 13, 2010 by ToadBrother

[ToadBrother]

Understanding how the Muslims aquired Jerusalem when they did and why it became a Muslim 'holy site' is key to understanding today's situation in the Levant.

They acquired Jerusalem by toppling the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem, which was about as native a state as the Turkish state that followed. I mean, the Kingdom's rulers has names like Baldwin and Amalric, not exactly what one would call good Palestinian names. On top of that, they even imposed some level of Catholic dominance over the Orthodox church hierarchy in the region.

Perhaps the history of the region is a tad bit more complex than you stated.

[betsy]

deleted. double posting.

Edited September 13, 2010 by betsy

[betsy]

Look up "Crusades" some day. For related reading, look up what happened to the Moors when Ferdinand and Isabella completed the re-Christianization of the Iberian Peninsula.

A lot of horrors done in the name of Christianity. Don't forget the dreadful Inquisition. Even the present-day horrors committed by molesting priests.

But again I must stress out that these transgressions were and are being made by MEN!

In my view - and I must stress that this is my pov - Satan was, and still is prolific and resourceful in getting mankind to turn away from God!

Edited September 13, 2010 by betsy

[ToadBrother]

A lot of horrors done in the name of Christianity. Don't forget the dreadful Inquisition. Even the present-day horrors committed by molesting priests.

But again I must stress out that these transgressions were and are being made by MEN!

Isabella was a woman.

In my view - and I must stress that this is my pov - Satan was, and still is prolific and resourceful in getting mankind to turn away from God!

Which has precious little to do with what I said. As a non-Christian, I'm not bound by your particular rationalizations or apologetics.

Edited September 13, 2010 by ToadBrother