Anti-Mosque Hysteria Elsewhere, Too

[GostHacked]

Which is why I think all the god-types are frickin' nuts. It only gets testy though when they try to impose themselves upon the community at large. A few do this more than others. Some to certain degrees of violence.

This is why we must confront the extremists in every religion, not just Islam.

[Bonam]

This is why we must confront the extremists in every religion, not just Islam.

Sure, I'm for that. Confront all religious extremists. The fact that the vast majority of these happen to be Muslims can be just a side note, if it makes you feel more comfortable.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Bonam

[bloodyminded]

At any rate, this thread was explicitly about non-violent, peaceable, community-oriented Muslims, receiving hate and fear from ignorant people.

Edited August 11, 2010 by bloodyminded

[GostHacked]

Sure, I'm for that. Confront all religious extremists. The fact that the vast majority of these happen to be Muslims can be just a side note, if it makes you feel more comfortable.

I think more or less after 9/11 we only really pay attention to when the Muslims do something. It sells more papers, gets more hits on the website.

[DogOnPorch]

This is why we must confront the extremists in every religion, not just Islam.

I like motherhood AND apple pies.

[Guest American Woman]

This is coming from the person who made the first thread regarding this topic.

No, it wasn't regarding "this topic." It was regarding one mosque for one very specific reason.

"This topic" is extremely broad and would apply to mosques in many cities around the world. But I'm guessing we're going to continue to hear only about the "American sentiment towards Muslims," which of course is bad, we all hate Muslims apparently, even though polls show it's no better in Canada, for example, or many other countries.

As I pointed out, the thread I started was in regards to one mosque where the objection was not "anti-mosque" sentiment, but sentiment against having a mosque go up in the ruins of 9-11.

[Guest American Woman]

????

That's an odd thing to say.

I count three so far; one of which is mine.

One of which, as Gosthacked helpfully points out, is yours.

What's odd about it? It was a valid question.

The one I started was the first. That apparently wasn't enough. So another was started, and now this one.

The thread I started, as I already pointed out to Gosthacked, was about one specific mosque for a very specific reason. If we start threads about every single mosque in every single city in every single country that has had some negative reactions, the board would soon be full.

[bloodyminded]

No, it wasn't regarding "this topic." It was regarding one mosque for one very specific reason.

"This topic" is extremely broad and would apply to mosques in many cities around the world. But I'm guessing we're going to continue to hear only about the "American sentiment towards Muslims," which of course is bad, we all hate Muslims apparently, even though polls show it's no better in Canada, for example, or many other countries.

As I pointed out, the thread I started was in regards to one mosque where the objection was not "anti-mosque" sentiment, but sentiment against having a mosque go up in the ruins of 9-11.

Yes, but there is a lot of anti-Mosque sentiment, based on fear and ignorance, and that's what this thread is about.

And sure, it's not a peculiarly American phenomenon. I happened upon an article, read the many links (and discarded one which did not appear suitably about the subject, in my view, and another that demanded payment for the article).

There's no sinister anti-Americanism to my posts. Ever.

[Guest American Woman]

Yes, but there is a lot of anti-Mosque sentiment, based on fear and ignorance, and that's what this thread is about.

And sure, it's not a peculiarly American phenomenon. I happened upon an article, read the many links (and discarded one which did not appear suitably about the subject, in my view, and another that demanded payment for the article).

There's no sinister anti-Americanism to my posts. Ever.

Just the title of your thread, "Anti-mosque Hysteria Elsewhere, Too" says a lot. "Anti-mosque sentiment" is not the "sentiment" behind the objection to the mosque I posted about. It was a very specific "sentiment" that had nothing to do with "anti-mosque" as there are many, many mosques in NYC, as has been pointed out.

So to say the objection to a mosque being built in the ruins of 9-11 is "anti-mosque hysteria" is difficult to understand. You don't have to agree with the actual sentiment behind it, but you are completely misrepresenting it.

And this post seems to say, as if that's not enough, there's anti-mosque sentiment elsewhere in the States, too. I'm waiting to hear that it's an American epidemic, as no mention is made of the anti-Muslim sentiment anywhere else except the U.S.

As I pointed out, polls show that Canadians have no better view of Islam than Americans do. To make it seem as if the U.S. is teeming with "anti-mosque hysteria," seems as if the issue is being directed only to one country and it's being misrepresented. Bush_cheney said that there are more mosques in NYC than there are in the whole of Canada, so I'd say there's a lot more "mosque tolerance/acceptance" going on in the U.S. than "hysteria."

Anyway, this is a board for posting our thoughts, and that's exactly what I did. Beyond that, I have no desire to discuss more claims about a specific mosque, especially in light of how badly actual views were distorted/dismissed in the "first thread about this topice," ie: the one I started.

[bloodyminded]

Just the title of your thread, "Anti-mosque Hysteria Elsewhere, Too" says a lot. "Anti-mosque sentiment" is not the "sentiment" behind the objection to the mosque I posted about. It was a very specific "sentiment" that had nothing to do with "anti-mosque" as there are many, many mosques in NYC, as has been pointed out.

So to say the objection to a mosque being built in the ruins of 9-11 is "anti-mosque hysteria" is difficult to understand. You don't have to agree with the actual sentiment behind it, but you are completely misrepresenting it.

It's misrepresentingh it only if you think everything I say must be directed at you.

In fact, there are people, here on this forum, who fit the bill of the "anti-Mosque hysteria" I posted about.

you can read the comments on this very thread, if you wish.

I wasn't directing it at you. At all.

You should worry about those who have attacked your stance...not at those (like myself) who have not.

Go back to the thread you started, and see if you can find me among your denunciators. You will not.

And this post seems to say, as if that's not enough, there's anti-mosque sentiment elsewhere in the States, too. I'm waiting to hear that it's an American epidemic, as no mention is made of the anti-Muslim sentiment anywhere else except the U.S.

And who here is saying this?

It's certainly, decidedly, not me.

As I pointed out, polls show that Canadians have no better view of Islam than Americans do. To make it seem as if the U.S. is teeming with "anti-mosque hysteria," seems as if the issue is being directed only to one country and it's being misrepresented.

Again, this has nothing whatsoever to do with me.

Bush_cheney said that there are more mosques in NYC than there are in the whole of Canada, so I'd say there's a lot more "mosque tolerance/acceptance" going on in the U.S. than "hysteria."

No doubt. The same could be said about Muslims and terrorism. Does that make Muslim terrorism a taboo subject?

Anyway, this is a board for posting our thoughts, and that's exactly what I did. Beyond that, I have no desire to discuss more claims about a specific mosque, especially in light of how badly actual views were distorted/dismissed in the "first thread about this topice," ie: the one I started.

Again: not by me.

[Oleg Bach]

Internal displacement of native populations is always distressing to those being moved aside - usually the process is so gradual that no one notices until it is to late and some stranger is living in your house...or ruling what was your native nation. Look at what happened to our aboriginals - 140 years ago none of them suspected that the introduction of forced Christianity - along with an invasive by nature European culture would wipe them off the map.

We are so kind - so tolerant, polite and politically correct - SO WERE THE NATIVE INDIANS.......\if - YOU ARE WILLING TO GIVE UP YOUR CULTURE and religion if you have one...be my guest......but our problem is that we are so secularized and de-cultured that we are a push over for those that believe in order and God - The Muslims - those that are deciplined in the spiritual arts of law and order WILL with out a doubt triumph over us - the corrupt - the dis-honourable -the gayified - and THE adulterated pleasure seeking twits - Islam will rule the west because Christianity has been abandoned - SECULARISM IS NO MATCH OF zeal!

[Sir Bandelot]

Really. I read the whole thread, but had no idea it was about Americans.

[Sir Bandelot]

our problem is that we are so secularized and de-cultured that we are a push over for those that believe in order and God - The Muslims - those that are deciplined in the spiritual arts of law and order WILL with out a doubt triumph over us - the corrupt - the dis-honourable -the gayified - and THE adulterated pleasure seeking twits - Islam will rule the west because Christianity has been abandoned - SECULARISM IS NO MATCH OF zeal!

What an interesting point of view.

There is no "thumbs up" emoticon

[Bonam]

SECULARISM IS NO MATCH OF zeal!

True, there is a certain attribute of a civilization driven by fanatical devotion to a religion, a certain confidence and virility and force of will, that seems to be much less potent in more secular societies. This can definitely place a secular society at some level of disadvantage when confronted with one that has powerful religious inclinations.

I say that as an atheist by the way...

However, despite this disadvantage, I believe the benefits of secularism far outweigh the cons. I think even a thoroughly secular society will stand up for itself when pushed far enough.

America seems to have an interesting answer to this, despite being a "secular" society in that no religion is officialized by the state, America instead has something of a national mythology that serves, at least in part, to create the same kind of confidence and assertiveness. More so than many other secular Western societies anyway, in my opinion.

[kimmy]

A reporter went undercover in some of England's biggest mosques and obtained videotape showing sermons that include things like

-advocating violent jihad

-calls for the overthrow of democracy and institution of a Muslim theocracy

-slaying homosexuals

-violence against women

After some Vancouver boys got their dumb asses shot up in a gunfight with Russian troops in Chechnya, people did some digging into the mosque they attended and found the mosque's website had hate-speech sermons available for download, in MP3 format.

Now, I'm sure that not all mosques are like that. Still, considering the above, why SHOULDN'T people be unhappy when a mosque opens near them?

-k

[Moonlight Graham]

I see. Not because of the ol' Boom Boom...naturally. Just plain ignorant.

Yes just plain damn ignorant. People fear what they do not understand. If anyone thinks that the group of idiots who flew planes into the WTC on 9/11 or the relatively small % of Muslims in extremist organizations like al-Qaeda planning to attack the west are any kind of representation of the 1.5 billion Muslims that inhabit this earth or are any kind of representation of what mainstream Islam actually stands for then they are ignorant morons.

25% of all humans on this earth are Muslims. Guess what? The vast majority do not want to ram planes into western buildings or kill westerners.

People should maybe actually walk into a Mosque, actually learn a bit about the religion, or *gasp* strike up a few friendly conversations with Muslims before they make damning conclusions about them.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Moonlight Graham

[bud]

Just out of curiosity, are we now going to be presented with threads about every single mosque in every city in every country that has had any negative reaction to it?

Anyone care to make a guess as to how many threads we'd end up with?

something wrong with pointing out the hysteria behind this? hysteria that originates from ignorance and bigotry? a hysteria that is overtaking the bigots in america.

Edited August 12, 2010 by bud

[DogOnPorch]

Yes just plain damn ignorant. People fear what they do not understand. If anyone thinks that the group of idiots who flew planes into the WTC on 9/11 or the relatively small % of Muslims in extremist organizations like al-Qaeda planning to attack the west are any kind of representation of the 1.5 billion Muslims that inhabit this earth are any kind of representation of what mainstream Islam actually stands for then they are ignorant morons.

25% of all humans on this earth are Muslims. Guess what? The vast majority do not want to ram planes into western buildings or kill westerners.

People should maybe actually walk into a Mosque, actually learn a bit about the religion, or *gasp* strike up a few friendly conversations with Muslims before they make damning conclusions about them.

Piss-off with your moralizing. There's a reason that Islam is in the news and it isn't li'l ol' me.

[bloodyminded]

A reporter went undercover in some of England's biggest mosques and obtained videotape showing sermons that include things like

-advocating violent jihad

-calls for the overthrow of democracy and institution of a Muslim theocracy

-slaying homosexuals

-violence against women

After some Vancouver boys got their dumb asses shot up in a gunfight with Russian troops in Chechnya, people did some digging into the mosque they attended and found the mosque's website had hate-speech sermons available for download, in MP3 format.

Now, I'm sure that not all mosques are like that. Still, considering the above, why SHOULDN'T people be unhappy when a mosque opens near them?

-k

Because it's ignorant and stupid?

We've reached a pretty pass when so many people are willing to justify drooling fear about people who have done nothing--nothing!--wrong in any capacity.

"Where are all the moderate, decent Muslims?" people ask plaintively.

Then: "Ooooh, a mosque in our neighbourhood! They're potential murderers! Who cares if they're solid, peaceful members of the community, holding interfaith Thanksgiving celebrations and so on...think of the children!"

Sad.

Edited August 12, 2010 by bloodyminded

[DogOnPorch]

Because it's ignorant and stupid?

How's that 5 times a day thing going, anyways?

[bloodyminded]

How's that 5 times a day thing going, anyways?

Sorry, atheist here.

[DogOnPorch]

Sorry, atheist here.

Ah, well...then we feel the same about those deluded drones that think the planet is 6000 years old...give or take. Oh wait...you're defending idiocy.

[bloodyminded]

Ah, well...then we feel the same about those deluded drones that think the planet is 6000 years old...give or take. Oh wait...you're defending idiocy.

No...you're defending the idiocy of people frightened of peaceful Muslims and innocuous mosques.

Edited August 12, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Shwa]

Piss-off with your moralizing. There's a reason that Islam is in the news and it isn't li'l ol' me.

Are you sure about that? It seems that from your viewpoint expressed thus far, you are the exact type of person most news agencies - and their advertisers - would be pandering to.

[DogOnPorch]

No...you're defending the idiocy of people frightened of peaceful Muslims and innocuous mosques.

Islam is innocuous?