Census - Mandatory or Voluntary

[Keepitsimple]

Funny thing is, 168,000 people didn't complete the last census and to my knowledge nobody was charged or fined - just a few that were hounded a little bit. That seems an awful lot like a voluntary census......and now that everyone KNOWS that you won't be charged, it would become even less mandatory - or more voluntary. I just thought I'd open a poll to see where people stand. In addition, it seems that other countries are starting to make do with other means.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Keepitsimple

[Smallc]

Leave it as it is....oh, and quit whining about the scary government knowing how many rooms are in your house.

[bebe]

The interesting thing is that those who choose not to complete the census won't be represented in the data, so both private sector and public sector planning/funding are less likely to address their characteristics, needs and concerns.

Libertarians and Harper Conservatives, for example.

[Handsome Rob]

Whole argument seems pretty frivolous, when was the last time somebody was punished for not filling it out? WK???

Is it any more valuable than poll projections? Don't know the science behind it.

[Shakeyhands]

Should be mandatory, and there should be a substantial fine for not completing it, say $25,000.

[TimG]

Should be mandatory, and there should be a substantial fine for not completing it, say $25,000.

Terence Corcoran has a good piece explaining why the people whining about a voluntary census are simply playing politics:

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/07/23/terence-corcoran-taking-leave-of-the-census/

The U.S. Census Bureau investigated use of a voluntary long-form survey in 2003 and 2004. Voluntary forms produced lower responses, especially among blacks and other groups. But it found that by increasing the size of the census survey, much of the decline in quality could be overcome. But it would cost more money, so the voluntary idea was dropped by Congress before it got out of committee.

Edited July 24, 2010 by TimG

[capricorn]

Thanks Tim. Corcoran makes good points. I liked his comments about the timeliness of data once it is published by StatsCan, i.e some of it is stale dated. I too am not convinced that a long form voluntary census sent to more homes will yield inferior results compared to the present mandatory long form.

[waldo]

Corcoran makes good points.

I too am not convinced that a long form voluntary census sent to more homes will yield inferior results compared to the present mandatory long form.

notwithstanding as to whether or not to accept anything Corcoran has to offer, apparently, you do not agree with his one statement:

Exactly how much of a loss of accuracy would occur using a voluntary survey of a greater number of Canadians — as proposed — is at the moment all speculative and unexamined rhetoric

which doesn't stop you... which didn't stop Harper Conservatives from attempting to dispel speculation and squelch perceived rhetoric... they/he simply turfed it without, apparently, any analysis into the merits and or particulars of existing versus alternate process/methodology.

[Jack Weber]

Keep it the way it is...

I work for the GESTAPO!!!

[with_distinction]

Although a nuisance, if you have ever worked in policy, or know the slightest about how policy works, then you would know that the census is a necessary and beneficial means of accumulating information that is used for the nation, be it health care, education, or infrastructure.

[Shakeyhands]

Should be mandatory, and there should be a substantial fine for not completing it, say $25,000.

and further.... same deal for those who don't register their long guns. So there.

[Wilber]

and further.... same deal for those who don't register their long guns. So there.

Except a census can provide information that is actually useful to a lot of people.

[William Ashley]

The short: I don't support mandatory anything - if there is no risk to safety.

The long: there is something called being civicly responsible - it doesn't hurt to help society as a whole but --- lets take a look and see what actually seems reasonable and what doesnt.

Ok, First off isn't there another mechanism to track farmers land and crop usages? Why the census?

Second off can't land registries and MPAC be used for housing ownership information, and land residency housing composition?

Perhaps with a requirement to "notify those organizations to update your file on a census year?

IT IS TOTALLY UNNEEDED.

Edited July 25, 2010 by William Ashley

[Borg]

So many canuckleheads here actually believe the census is a good thing

Nanny staters with entitled attitudes.

Governments do not belong in any persons house - all the info they need can be taken from the taxation forms.

Not too many independent thinkers here - just a lot of sheep

Truly disgusting - no wonder canada is going down hill

Borg

[Smallc]

The journey of life called. It wants the negative (and completely irrational) attitude back.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Smallc

[Borg]

Funny thing is, 168,000 people didn't complete the last census and to my knowledge nobody was charged or fined - just a few that were hounded a little bit. That seems an awful lot like a voluntary census......and now that everyone KNOWS that you won't be charged, it would become even less mandatory - or more voluntary. I just thought I'd open a poll to see where people stand. In addition, it seems that other countries are starting to make do with other means.

I have never completed a census and never intend to

They get everything they need from me after my accountant sends them the cheque at the end of our fiscal year. Right to the penny.

I know many that are the same as me

Government has no right to enter my house

Too many people around the world have died to prevent government interference in their lives - only canuckleheads invite the government into their house - freedoms are being eroded and no one cares.

Limp dicks think the census will always be a good thing - each year it gets more intrusive - slow and steady ....

Borg

[Jack Weber]

I have never completed a census and never intend to

They get everything they need from me after my accountant sends them the cheque at the end of our fiscal year. Right to the penny.

I know many that are the same as me

Government has no right to enter my house

Too many people around the world have died to prevent government interference in their lives - only canuckleheads invite the government into their house - freedoms are being eroded and no one cares.

Limp dicks think the census will always be a good thing - each year it gets more intrusive - slow and steady ....

Borg

They're coming for you...

By the way,if your accountant is sending the gov't cheques for income tax,maybe you should change accountants...

But then again,once you build an anti-socialist bunker,you can hord all your money in there...

[Argus]

Although a nuisance, if you have ever worked in policy, or know the slightest about how policy works, then you would know that the census is a necessary and beneficial means of accumulating information that is used for the nation, be it health care, education, or infrastructure.

And has someone proposed eliminating the census?

[Argus]

Except a census can provide information that is actually useful to a lot of people.

Has someone proposed eliminating the census?

[Keepitsimple]

Interesting column by George Jonas - whether you believe every word is up to you.....but it demonstrates how intrusive and rediculous the process can be:

Beginning in 1986, I got into the habit of objecting to the census once every 10 years. In 1996, Canada’s Assistant Chief Statistician, at the time D. Bruce Petrie, took me to task for suggesting that Statistics Canada has no regard for privacy in conducting the census, and misleads the public with its guarantees of confidentiality.

“[Census] questions are not ‘intrusive and impertinent,’ as Jonas charges,” he wrote in a letter to the editor. “Rather, all of the information collected by the census is needed, and it is used only for statistical purposes.”

I barely finished reading Petrie’s letter when the phone rang, as if on cue. The young lady on the line informed me that her name was Alexandra (she didn’t offer me her last name) and that she was calling from Census Canada.

“Yes?”

“Well, we know that you were out of town,” chirped Alexandra, “but we don’t have your census form and I wonder if you could just do it on the phone for me.”

This was interesting. My trip abroad wasn’t exactly a secret, but not being on parole, I wasn’t reporting my movements to the authorities. Most of my friends wouldn’t have known that I was out of town. Other than popping around to interview the doorman at my apartment building, I couldn’t think of any way for Alexandra to have found out.

My new buddy sounded like a pleasant girl, but I wasn’t sure if I appreciated Census Canada checking on my whereabouts in this fashion.

“I don’t give phone interviews,” I said to Alexandra. “If you wish to see me, we can make an appointment.”

Alexandra was polite but persistent. “Tomorrow is my last day on the job,” she said, “and those forms should have been in a month ago. If you can’t do it now I’ll have to give your census form to the lawyers and everything.”

With luck, I might get to write a piece entitled I was a prisoner of Statistics Canada. “I’m a journalist,” I told Alexandra. “I’d enjoy interviewing your lawyers.”

Alexandra took a different tack. “Oh come on,” she said, “it’ll take less than one minute. Just answer two questions, your address, and your marital status.”

“You seem to know my address, and I’m divorced. Not that it’s any of your business. Goodbye.”

“Wait. Is there another person living in your place?”

“None of Statistics Canada’s business.”

Alexandra wouldn’t give up. “If it’s like a roommate, you know, or common law partner, can you tell me their name?”

“Would you like me to spell ‘none of Statistics Canada’s business’ for you?”

“Okay, I’ll write that you live alone.”

“You write whatever you like,” I said. “Thank you, and give my regards to Mr. Petrie.”

I’m making light of my conversation with Census Canada, but in fact it’s not a laughing matter. For an official to suggest–and perhaps sincerely believe– that it’s not intrusive and impertinent for Census Canada to ask citizens their roommates’ or common law partners’ name (and therefore sex), or that the government “needs” such information for “statistical purposes,” shows that by now our bureaucrats suffer from more than simple arrogance or insensitivity. They sincerely believe that if they “need” to know the name and sex of our roommates, we ought to tell them. After all, they aren’t asking out of idle curiosity but for reasons of state. If that doesn’t override our feeble rights to piffle such as privacy or dignity, what does?

Link: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/07/24/george-jonas-none-of-their-business/#more-7698

[Leafless]

Should be mandatory, and there should be a substantial fine for not completing it, say $25,000.

Nazi Germany has been dead for a long time.

How come your not?

[Handsome Rob]

Interesting column by George Jonas - whether you believe every word is up to you.....but it demonstrates how intrusive and rediculous the process can be:

Link: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/07/24/george-jonas-none-of-their-business/#more-7698

100% believe it, but as with most government programs, it's not what it does, it's what it was designed to do. Whether or not the goal is accomplished is irrelevant, the procedures are followed and boxes are ticked.

If we are giving people time served + probation for assault with a weapon and sometimes manslaughter, how on earth could they ever justify punishing somebody for failing to complete a census properly or honestly? One newspaper column and StatCan's intestines would be served for dinner.

Which further hardens my belief that this whole census furor is utterly frivolous, even if the legislation passes, nothing will really change. Arguing for the sake of arguing.

[CANADIEN]

Until there are other methods in place to collect data useful for policy-making is in place, responding to the census should remain mandatory. No jail term, though... frankly. Better to devise a way to identifying throught the following year`s income tax form who did not fill it, and get the money ($100 or so seems to be quite sufficient)

Is the census intrusive? Yes. Are some questions not necessary? Yes. But for the other questions, the benefits, in terms of data being available to inform public decision-making, far, far outweight this ihe inconvenience.

[CANADIEN]

They get everything they need from me after my accountant sends them the cheque at the end of our fiscal year. Right to the penny.

let me see... Elsewhere on this site, you argue about the number of Canadians whose first language is other than English or French and cannot speak either of these two languages. You call for action by the Government oabout this. Shouldn`t such action be based on factual information? Like data collected through... the census. Yes, the census, and no, it`s not asked on your income tax form.

The chair of the C.D. Howe Institute, hardly an advocate for the nanny-state, has put together a compelling case for the data gathering done through the census, while at the same time blasting (properly, mind you), the Liberals for their inept response to the Government`s decision.

http://www.cdhowe.org/pdf/GM_WRobson_July13-10.pdf

His is a compelling argument, from a right-wing, anti big-government, libertarian point of view.

Edited July 25, 2010 by CANADIEN

[August1991]

Has someone proposed eliminating the census?

In fact, the census is just the tip of the iceberg. Statistics Canada collects all kinds of information from many individual Canadians or organizations. Here are two well known examples: Statistics Canada surveys several thousand people across Canada every month to determine the unemployment rate, and it also has an army of price checkers across the country to calculate the inflation rate.

IMV, the collection and diffussion of information have changed fundamentally in the past 40 years. Banks and marketing departments, for example, simply don't work the same now as they did in 1970.

The census must change.

Until there are other methods in place to collect data useful for policy-making is in place, responding to the census should remain mandatory.

As I asked elsewhere, would you apply that logic to voting in elections too?

And how do you propose ensuring that thye information provided is accurate? Would you have census police?

Edited July 25, 2010 by August1991