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The problem with that, as Munir Shiekh's resignation demonstrates, is that a sample of volunteers would not validly represent all Canadians. See here: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=16773&view=findpost&p=563621 http://www.thestar.com/article/838589--travers-forget-the-beaver-dumber-canada-needs-the-ostrich Expertise, the prime minister once publicly reminded his party, is as suspect as elites. Intuition and the nodding wisdom of next-door neighbours are to be trusted. Yes ... and the earth is flat.

I oppose any laws about what people can wear on their face. In Japan it is common for people with cold/flu to wear sanitary masks in public, esp on trains. We might be wise to adopt that practice too. http://forums.sgclub.com/singapore/japan_masks_sold_168212.html Sandstorms are another reason some might cover their face. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35959965/ In winter we wear balaclavas and scarves over our faces http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balaclava_%28clothing%29 When it's really cold, wear a face mask or a scarf over your mouth to warm the air you breathe and protect your face. http://running.about.com/od/safetyweather/tp/coldweathersafety.htm It used to be common for grieving widows to wear a veil, and is still in some cultures. http://fevertreedesign.com/gr/wp-content/plugins/wp-shopping-cart/product_images/veilhat.jpg A bandana soaked in vinegar is desirable for protests where tear gas may be used http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/cbc-article.aspx?cp-documentid=24684287 Some protesters are packing their bags with vinegar-soaked bandanas, ear plugs and gas masks, getting ready for any police violence they might encounter. And good grief ... what about big sunglasses and hats pulled down low/collars up high - the classic celeb. 'disguise'! http://www.sunglassesoverglasses.com/ Next thing you know, the cops will be measuring your sunglasses to see if they are too big, and high collars and hat brims will be outlawed. Truth is ... this whole kerfuffle about 'veils' is ridiculous and purely racist. You cannot have one law for Muslim women and another for children wearing scarves in winter to prevent frostbite, or people trying to avoid spreading germs. I say ... get over it!

I can't imagine the logistics of setting up such databanks ... boggles the mind. Just thinking about the consent issue is daunting enough: the anti-government/protection of privacy lobbies would have a real field day with that one! I hereby consent to allow (eg) MTO to share this personal information with any level of government that wants it, and any private interests that purchase it. I don't think so! Also ... we'd each have to be issued a single personal ID number so that our own data in all the different databases can be linked. I can see a few obstacles there!

You are right Canadien. Good example. Removing people from the 'population' used to generate the sample can also result in a selection bias. Random sampling from the entire population is very important.

Apparently not one you can understand ... but that's not our problem. This statement by Eaves (previous link) echoes my belief about why Harper wants to destroy the ability to make comparisons with past data and observe trends: some governments prefer not to have information; all that data and evidence gets in the way of legislation and policies that are ineffective, costly and that reward vested interests Harper does not want to be accountable to us. As for StatsCan recouping some costs by selling data to private interests ... that's just a positive byproduct of what needs to be done anyway. Also, because we can access census data, often free, we can hold politicians, media and authors accountable for speculative statements and bad policies.

The interesting thing is that those who choose not to complete the census won't be represented in the data, so both private sector and public sector planning/funding are less likely to address their characteristics, needs and concerns. Libertarians and Harper Conservatives, for example.

I stand corrected.

"millions"? really? David K. Foot is a professor of economics at the University of Toronto, and co-author of the Boom, Bust & Echo books. Who's going to buy this car? Some StatsCan products - like basic demographic info from the census - are available free, it's true. Others, tailored to particular uses, are very costly. (StatsCan does recoup some costs) It depends what you are talking about.

Actually, the proposed voluntary survey is much more costly for much less valid data. I predict that these groups won't be as likely to fill out a voluntary survey: - younger adults and older adults - more recent immigrants - private sector employers and employees - Type A personalities (too busy and impatient) - Libertarians and Reform/Alliance/Conservatives - other groups we can't easily identify Consequently, these types of people will not be well-represented in demographic statistics about Canadians that are used for planning, funding, etc. In other words, it won't be a valid sample of all Canadians as some groups will be selectively absent. Of course ... in some cases that can be a good thing! (jk)

My understanding is that people have been prosecuted and fines levied, but no one has been jailed. I'd be ok with removing the threat of jail and replacing it with community service ... in an agency that relies on census data, for example.

1) What's your industry/interest? 2) Inform yourself. And here's an interesting summary: Why you should care about the sudden demise of the mandatory long census form

I thought this was particularly well said: “I find it a little disturbing that the Industry Minister doesn’t seem to understand that knowledge is essential in the knowledge economy.”

Since the thread op is about Canada's Indian Act, we are talking about Canada.

Why not take a look: * Aboriginal peoples * Agriculture * Business, consumer and property services * Business performance and ownership * Children and youth * Construction * Crime and justice * Culture and leisure * Economic accounts * Education, training and learning * Energy * Environment * Ethnic diversity and immigration * Families, households and housing * Government * Health * Income, pensions, spending and wealth * Information and communications technology * International trade * Labour * Languages * Manufacturing * Population and demography * Prices and price indexes * Reference * Retail and wholesale * Science and technology * Seniors * Society and community * Statistical methods * Transportation * Travel and tourism Here's a gem: In an ironic twist, the Fraser Institute – one of the education system’s fiercest critics and the only public-policy think tank to back the government’s decision to make the long form voluntary – relied on census data in preparing its latest “report card” on Canada’s public schools. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/why-the-census-matters-just-about-everywhere/article1650524/

Already posted here

Yes it's true, and many treaties as well, all still with the force of law. You could say that about other peoples subjected to aggressive subjugation and attempts at mass extinction too. Generally speaking, I think we try to respect the rights of those who have survived. For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_Agreement_between_Israel_and_West_Germany#Israel.27s_dilemma Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany The Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany (German: Luxemburger Abkommen, Hebrew: הסכם השילומים Heskem HaShelomim) was signed on September 10, 1952,[1] and entered in force on March 27, 1953.[2] According to the Agreement, West Germany was to pay Israel for the slave labor and persecution of Jews during the Holocaust, and to compensate for Jewish property that was stolen by the Nazis. ... Despite the protests, the agreement was signed in September of that year, and West Germany paid Israel a sum of 3 billion marks [approx. $2 billion] over the next fourteen years; 450 million marks [approx. $300 million] were paid to the World Jewish Congress. The payments were made to the State of Israel as the heir to those victims who had no surviving family. The money was invested in the country's infrastructure and played an important role in establishing the economy of the new state. The reparations would become a decisive part of Israel's income, comprising as high as 87.5% of the state income in 1956.[3]. Likewise, I believe that Canadians have an obligation, legal and otherwise, to try to 'repair' the wrongs done against Aboriginal people.

charter rights, I must say it is interesting reading your posts. They contain a wealth of information and sophisticated understanding and interpretation. Thanks for sharing your insight. (I'm studying the Mitchell map, with some difficulty understanding where the boundaries are, but it is fascinating.)

Here are some survey results from retired people re the census issue: Census and Polling Poll

I'm not as certain as you, nor is the Supreme Court, I think. "As far as the Europeans saw it..." is about all you can claim, isn't it? And of course that brings us right back to ... Aboriginal rights cannot be extinguished and continue to exist in spite of any 'European' claims, royal or otherwise.

I expect it will be the police dept/taxpayers. Though that may seem unfair, I think if it affects their budget police mucky-mucks will think more seriously about the consequences of violating people's charter rights in the future, and may be more resistant to political pressure to take such an aggressive approach. That then filters down to officers being more careful about violating people's rights. I don't entirely blame the individual officers. Some were a**holes but that kind of wholesale roundup of citizens reflects attitude gleaned from higherups. The a**holes threatening and sexually harassing and assaulting should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, imo. So should Harper who I believe holds us all in contempt and unleashed the 'attitude' in the first place ... and that may take place at the ballot box.

Census data goes to StatsCan and is never released to anyone with any identifying personal information. To link all the available information in various departments is a huge task, and requires use of identifying personal information that we have not given consent for them to share. ---- It might be online by then, but it will likely still be a unique data collection for that specific census purpose. I don't think Canadians will ever agree to let the government use any and all personal information in various databases however and whenever they want to.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100721/wl_time/08599200524500 UK "These sources are not likely to be any substitute. They are mostly characterized by a near comical set of gaps, omissions, conflicts of interest and data-protection issues." ... A 2003 ONS paper looking into the creation of a central system that would link together a wide variety of government statistics and databases - offering a reliable and up-to-date alternative to the aging census - estimates it would take 10 years to get up and running. There is plenty of information about each of us collected via various government departments. However, each is currently under legal obligation 1) To use the data only for the purpose for which it was collected, and 2) Not to share any personalised data with anyone else. If we give the government carte blanche to find whatever information they can on us and send it anywhere and everywhere or use it anyway they choose ... well ... I just don't think people are quite ready for that kind of intrusion and lack of privacy.

Black can't return to Canada yet Lord Black's lawyer Miguel Estrada told the court one reason Lord black should be allowed to return to Toronto is the health condition of his wife. Mr. Estrada said the condition was not serious but it was difficult for her to live in Palm Beach. awww ...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/supreme-court-upholds-damages-claim-in-charter-rights-breach-case/article1649475/ The Supreme Court of Canada says people whose charter rights are breached can win damages, even if there was no misbehaviour on the part of the authorities. The high court unanimously upheld $5,000 in damages given to Alan Cameron Ward, a Vancouver lawyer who was strip-searched in 2002 when he was wrongly suspected of plotting to pie then-prime minister Jean Chretien. ... Mr. Ward was arrested because he partly fit the description of a man suspected of planning the pie attack. Police took him to jail, where he was strip-searched. His car was towed. He was never charged and was released after about four and a half hours. ... “An award of damages may be necessary to vindicate a charter right, to deter similar breaches in the future or to express disapproval of unconstitutional conduct and courts must be free to craft remedies that redress the loss of dignity or moral harm associated with charter breaches.” I think this is an important decision: If there are no consequences of a breach of citizen's charter rights, then it's open season on all of us. The implications for the G20 1000 are obvious: Those 700+ detained with no reason will be able to claim damages. Maybe that'll make the authorities think twice about aggressive police roundups of protesters in the future. But despite the obvious seriousness of this topic, I am quite amused by this comment Strip-searched because he was suspected of being a Pie thrower? WOW...he deserves more than $5000 from the simple minded policeman who authorized this...where did they think the pie was?