73% of New Canadians fear for their children lives around water

[GostHacked]

Haha, nice

I had to read it again, but yup ... flawless.

[Hydraboss]

Seat belts and baby seats are mandated by the government because parents didn't have the resources to fully protect their children. That is government's role.

The government installing laws regarding the mandatory use of car seats is a far cry from the government supplying car seats. If you wish to make this equation, then you would have to change that to "government subsidies for car seats for new Canadians".

[Hydraboss]

This should be great news for our resident racsists!!!!!!!

And yes, tax payer money should be used if it saves Canadian lives.

But the OP wasn't about Canadian subsidies for Canadians. It was specifically directed to Canadian subsidies to "newcomers"/"new Canadians".

You're right. This IS racist.

[Mr.Canada]

But the OP wasn't about Canadian subsidies for Canadians. It was specifically directed to Canadian subsidies to "newcomers"/"new Canadians".

You're right. This IS racist.

That's peoples answer to everything, let the government fix it. Why not take responsibility for your own lives? I am tired of my taxes going up and up and up. Did you know the average Canadian pays 50% of their pay in taxes?

That's right with all the deductions at work plus consumption taxes 50% of the money we earn goes to the government. I am tired of paying more, people need to take responsibility for their own lives. The government cannot fix everything that's wrong with your lives nor should it.

Some of you won't be happy until PM Harper comes to your home and tucks you in at night. Take responsibility for your own lives dammit.

[Jack Weber]

That's peoples answer to everything, let the government fix it. Why not take responsibility for your own lives? I am tired of my taxes going up and up and up. Did you know the average Canadian pays 50% of their pay in taxes?

That's right with all the deductions at work plus consumption taxes 50% of the money we earn goes to the government. I am tired of paying more, people need to take responsibility for their own lives. The government cannot fix everything that's wrong with your lives nor should it.

Some of you won't be happy until PM Harper comes to your home and tucks you in at night. Take responsibility for your own lives dammit.

Mr.Falange...

Are'nt you the one who advocates for the Canadian populous to have a childlike admiration for our "Father Figure" PM?

[DogOnPorch]

Drain the lakes...wall-up the rivers...fence-off the ocean. Problem solved.

[lictor616]

In light of the continuous drowning incidences in Ontario The Star sheds some light on who is vulnerable from research done by Lifesaving Society

Survey found that 79 per cent of newcomers to be in and around water this summer, they are four times more likely to be unable to swim.

It is never too late to learn to swim; I hope there can be some subsidised programs to help new Canadians learn to swim. In my region the cost to swim is $5.10 per visit and you can visit 3 or 4 times per day, amounts to a costly sum at a time when new Canadians are still learning about other kinds of sink or swim.

let me try to play the liberal angle on this one...

hmmm this reeks of discrimination... and racism on the part of water and pools...

maybe its our fault for being so culturally insensitive, pools are a product of our racist, exlusionnist culture...

maybe we could institute affirmative action type programs.. where minorieties who want to learn to swim get a free pool and swimming lessons and gets payed for it too... all at the expense of the tax paying animals of this country who aren't minorities.

and if anyone dares to articulate the fact thta blacks are poor swimmers... I might call the ADL...

Edited July 16, 2010 by lictor616

[Argus]

But the OP wasn't about Canadian subsidies for Canadians. It was specifically directed to Canadian subsidies to "newcomers"/"new Canadians".

You're right. This IS racist.

You are inventing a moral position out of whole cloth.

Lots of people don't feel we owe anything to newcomers who have done little to justify our letting them into the country in the first place. And that has nothing to do with race.

Even if you mention a particular geographical area you don't want to see immigrants from, ie, the middle east or Africa, that has nothing to do with racism unless the reason for disliking immigrants from that area is a supposition that they are racially inferior.

[Hydraboss]

You are inventing a moral position out of whole cloth.

Lots of people don't feel we owe anything to newcomers who have done little to justify our letting them into the country in the first place. And that has nothing to do with race.

Even if you mention a particular geographical area you don't want to see immigrants from, ie, the middle east or Africa, that has nothing to do with racism unless the reason for disliking immigrants from that area is a supposition that they are racially inferior.

I am not inventing anything. The whole premise of this thread is that "newcomers" should be given free swimming lessons. The "racist" comment I made was on the balance beam of "Canadian" vs "new Canadian"; the opinion was that one group should have lessons paid for but not the other. Racism that is not based on race. Fine, we'll call it favoritism then.

If there is a group that feels we owe anything to newcomers, I AM NOT IN THAT GROUP. We open the gates and the treasury to those who have done nothing to deserve it (and in some instances everything not to deserve it). The swimming lessons are only a symptom of the two sides of this whole immigrant debate.

I want camel racing lessons and I want YOU to pay for it. Of course, I AM a socialist.

[RB]

I am not inventing anything. The whole premise of this thread is that "newcomers" should be given free swimming lessons....I want camel racing lessons and I want YOU to pay for it...

Well, I just fell in love with badminton but I am not going to die even if I resent you didn't support my wish to stay fit and pay up..

The majority of drowning are children, the statistics didn't mention the near drowning incidences and brain and health related issues, can become even more costly than the recommended suggestion of mandatory swimming lessons in schools, education awareness and guidance for the good ol' Canadians (Still, there are about 500 drowning in the country each year. For every drowning, there are between six and 10 near-drowning that can leave a child with brain damage or other serious medical problems)]

[Wilber]

The lesson here is don't be stupid around water. Teach your kids the dangers of being near water. Teach them to swim. And learn to swim yourself if you don't know how.

Exactly. Maybe the state should be paying for driving lessons as well or lessons for any other activity that can get you killed. In principle, I like the idea of it being part of a phys ed program in schools but where is the money going to come from to provide the facilities and teachers? People do need to take some responsibility for their own and their children's safety. If it is that much of a concern, they need to do something to address it themselves other than complaining because the state isn't doing it for them.

[Wilber]

The majority of drowning are children, the statistics didn't mention the near drowning incidences and brain and health related issues, can become even more costly than the recommended suggestion of mandatory swimming lessons in schools, education awareness and guidance for the good ol' Canadians (Still, there are about 500 drowning in the country each year. For every drowning, there are between six and 10 near-drowning that can leave a child with brain damage or other serious medical problems)]

The largest single cause of drowning is boating accidents. If you take a kid out in a boat and it isn't wearing a PFD, you should be horsewhipped, double whipping if it is a kid that can't swim. Same goes if you let a kid that can't swim play in the water without being in there with them. Your kid can't swim, you are responsible.

[wyly]

I never take my eye off my kid when he's in the water, drowning occurs in as little as 20 seconds...

[Bonam]

Exactly. Maybe the state should be paying for driving lessons as well or lessons for any other activity that can get you killed. In principle, I like the idea of it being part of a phys ed program in schools but where is the money going to come from to provide the facilities and teachers? People do need to take some responsibility for their own and their children's safety. If it is that much of a concern, they need to do something to address it themselves other than complaining because the state isn't doing it for them.

Some schools already do have it as part of their phys ed programs. Heck, we even learned scuba in the high school I went to...

[August1991]

maybe this drowing is widespread worldwide.

But the survey from The Lifesaving Society’s survey polled 433 Canadian-born adults and 599 Canadian immigrants from the Chinese, South Asian, Southeast Asian and Muslim communities.

you are linking the Russians to Muslims?

RB, I'm not linking Russians to Muslims, or to South Asians or to the fine people of Northern Slovenia, or of South Western Ontario.

You provided a link to a purported research/survey of the "Lifesaving Society" claiming that Canadian immigrants are at greater risk of drowning, or fear drowning - and I linked to statistics of Russian drownings. End of story, I guess. Except.

----

First, I have no trust whatsoever in anyone who calls themselves the "Lifesaving Society". If I were a fraud artist, that would be the first name that I would choose or maybe the "Save Kittens Non-Profit Organization". (The person who steals your pension money will have impeccable manners, a well cut suit and clean finger nails.)

Second, the article (and your OP) state that immigrants fear for their children around water. RB, do you get my point, and the umpteen posts above? (Hint. Why should all taxpayers pay for something that other people fear and have the means to solve?)

Third. People do stupid things. Like many Russians apparently, they drink too much beer and then go for a swim. (In Canada, they drink too much beer and then get in a boat... ) I'm all in favour of stopping stupidity but how? RB, I'm all ears. I may appear flippant but in fact I'm not.

Fourth. In my experience, most immigrants to Canada (including Russian immigrants) are not that stupid. To get to Canada, most people have to be clever, devious or at least determined (admittedly, there are exceptions). Nevertheless, if there was a group of people on the planet who deserved help, I'm not sure that I would start with people who managed to make their way to Canada.

Edited August 10, 2010 by August1991

[P. McGee]

Subsidies for swimming classes don't seem unreasonable, and it seems they do exist at the municipal level and through certain school systems. I also see no problem with such programs being "accessible" to immigrant populations, but targeting those groups to the exclusion of others seems unwarranted. What exactly makes this a federal issue though?

[August1991]

Subsidies for swimming classes don't seem unreasonable, and it seems they do exist at the municipal level and through certain school systems.

You raise an interesting point, P. McGee, when you state this.

Learning how to swim, or at least learning how to avoid drowning, strikes me as education at its most basic. Like learning how to walk, or talk, such education can save one's life. Whether walking, talking or swimming, it is in the direct interest of the individual to learn this skill - swimming in particular.

So why exactly should taxpayers subsidize learning how to swim when they generally don't subsidize learning how to walk, or talk?

Edited August 11, 2010 by August1991

[Smallc]

So why exactly should taxpayers subsidize learning how to swim when they generally don't subsidize learning how to walk, or talk?

We learn a great deal of our language in school...and there is also physical education.

[August1991]

We learn a great deal of our language in school...and there is also physical education.

But the most important, critical things, we pay to learn or we learn from our parents.

People learn things that matter to them, or their parents will teach them these things. For example, children learn how to walk, talk, make it known that they're hungry. Did the Canadian government pay for people to learn how to text message with one hand?

----

I am not opposed to the State paying for some education through tax revenues, I just wonder about why many (critical) skills are not learned that way. McGee seemed hot to trot for subsidies for swimming lessons. Why?

Edited August 11, 2010 by August1991

[P. McGee]

I am not opposed to the State paying for some education through tax revenues, I just wonder about why many (critical) skills are not learned that way. McGee seemed hot to trot for subsidies for swimming lessons. Why?

Hot to trot is perhaps an exaggeration. I said that subsidies, such as those that already exist, don't seem unreasonable. One thing to consider, given the structure of our healthcare system, would be that non-swimmers who suffer brain damage in near-drowning accidents can require some very expensive care, sometimes for life. Are existing swimming programs at schools and municipal facilities not worth the expense? Swim instructors and lifeguards are cheaper by the hour than doctors and nurses.

[Sir Bandelot]

"73% of New Canadians fear for their children lives around water"

So now water is a terrorist